Does Rodgers deserve another season.

[Ranxerox]

without the year we've gotten from Suarez I'd doubt there would be much support for keeping him on as we'd be far down the table. Suarez has given Rodgers a lot of cover. His transfers have been poor (remember he rejected Sturridge in August and is Coutinho his signing or the scouts?).

 

His tactics have turned our defence into a shambles but we're told Ashley Williams will save us.

 

He'll get another year whether we like it or not and his eventual replacement won't world class anyways.

 

Until we get ambitious owners we're a mid table side gradually becoming a mid table club.

[Code]

We are 3 points better off than we were at this stage last season - and that is on the back of a poor start, so there is a valid argument to say that we have improved - we could, quite easily improve both in place and points by the end of the season.

 

Which - considering the comparison argument at the start of the season, was the key barometer for improvementat - it is only fair that it still should still be used as the barometer.

 

Dalglish would have us finishing around 70 points this season and we would have last season with a normal season at Anfield.

 

Rodgers is taking us backwards, we played far better football last season and our season ended in May not in February.

 

He is taking us nowhere and we will not even qualify for Europe, he has been a disaster and its not a question if he deserves another season, more a question can we afford to give him another season, the answer is noas he will not suddenly change his approach and stop teams walking through our midfield in the massive amount of open space we leave behind.

 

The most shocking thing is he learns nothing from it and we set up the same way the next game no matter who we play, get rid.

[Major Tom]

well done sir - the old you are wrong argument

 

.........

 

and before you go there - scoring more goals while having your arse handed to you regulalry at the back is not improvement unless you really know little about the overall objective of a football game which I actually think may be the case with you

 

What would you have liked to have seen from Rodgers in league terms to be satisfied he was good enough? 5th? 4th? 3rd? 2nd? 1st? What?

[navbasi]

Think we've played some really good football at times this season and had we had another striker (Sturridge in August) things would have been looking a lot better. Don't have a problem with Rodgers, think he'll be good for us as long as he keeps his mouth shut and learns from his mistakes.

 

For me the time to judge him will be this time next season, if we are still pissing about and scrapping for 6th or 7th place with 8 games to go then the decision has to be made to let him go at the end of the season.

[Gym Beglin]

I dont think Southampton was THAT bad.

 

I rewatched it and was expecting the worst, but actually, it's a mixture of all sorts that led to that result.

 

We could have taken the lead within 90 seconds, and actually had the ball in the net on 2 mins but was offside.

 

The weather was appalling, players were going over, it looked a bit like an ice-rink in terms of people trying to stop suddenly or change direction quickly.

 

Southampton played a high line, we did not. Becuase they did, they always had midfield runners in attacks, and always got numbers back to deny our front three. Gerrard and Allen were covering a massive area, so got torn apart. Lallana was quality by the way, just a constant threat, that said, we didnt half give him space to operate in.

 

We had a few first half chances, Countinho missed when 1 on 1 with the keeper, and Sturridge thrashed a few efforts wide. Southampton though, on top of the space afforded to them, were also gifted chances due to the back fours abject display. Perhaps Enrique aside, all looked like they'd rather be somewhere else.

 

But, despite all that, we were only 2-1 down at the break. We scored right before half time, Pochettino was livid as he went in, we should have taken the advantage. So, to me, the second half wasn't any better. In fact, in theory, it was worse because we didnt score and they scored.

[xerxes]

Any decent club with meaningful ambitions would have this guy out of the club pronto.Your acceptance of this level of performance means you are one of the many consenting explicity to this bullshit mediority,please give me some evidence of meaningful improvement?

 

This is at the heart of it.

 

I want us to be title/CL challengers. But i accept that under FSG and with the stadium issue still festering that is not going to happen.

 

Rodgers will improve on last years league points total and position. That is as good as it will get. That is not his fault.

[navbasi]

without the year we've gotten from Suarez I'd doubt there would be much support for keeping him on as we'd be far down the table. Suarez has given Rodgers a lot of cover. His transfers have been poor (remember he rejected Sturridge in August and is Coutinho his signing or the scouts?).

 

His tactics have turned our defence into a shambles but we're told Ashley Williams will save us.

 

He'll get another year whether we like it or not and his eventual replacement won't world class anyways.

 

Until we get ambitious owners we're a mid table side gradually becoming a mid table club.

 

Isn't that what the scouting department is there for? To give a list of names to the manager and then he decides whether we sign them or not? You can't have it both ways, if the player hits the ground running then it's the scouts, if the players hasn't been great then it's Rodgers.

[redfromtubebar]

He deserves another season. Of course he does.

 

However, he needs to learn from his mistakes quickly and some of them have been amateurish.

 

Amazing the amount of people who knew what was going to happen on Saturday as soon as they saw the team sheet.

 

The Joe Allen fixation has to end. Play people on merit Brendan. Why is Henderson back warming the bench after playing out of his skin during his run in the side?

 

Recent managers haven't been afraid to quickly eradicate mistakes in the transfer market. I hope we see the same.

[Major Tom]

Dalglish would have us finishing around 70 points this season and we would have last season with a normal season at Anfield.

 

 

con·jec·ture (kn-jkchr)

n.

1. Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork.

 

 

 

Rodgers would have had us finishing around 70 points this season had the owners backed him with a striker last summer.

 

Piece of piss, this conjecture lark.

[Major Tom]

The Joe Allen fixation has to end. Play people on merit Brendan. Why is Henderson back warming the bench after playing out of his skin during his run in the side?

 

Henderson is clearly revelling in a role further forward to what Allen is playing. They are not rivals. Whether Henderson would be as effective in the Lucas role, we don't know. My guess is not.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

I would have won us the title with Code as my first team right winger.

 

And Queresma on the left.

[The Guest]

he has spent large sums of money and we have disimproved overall

 

you should take a look at yourself for an abusive post like that

 

those shouting loudest on here tend to have the weakest argument

 

it goes along the lines of he's only had eight months

 

thats plenty of time to give evidence of his abilities

 

there has been no credible evidence provided that this guy deserves to be our manager and most of the evidence points to the opposite conclusion

 

the longer he stays the harder any recovery will be

 

this is not a knee jerk reaction

 

i've been consistent in this view

 

The way you think that maintaining the same position throughout is actually somehow how noble and makes your opinion more worthy and not a knee jerk reaction is laughable.

 

It's actually the opposite. You made your knee jerk reaction when it wasn't Benitez that was handed the job. The fact that you have just stuck to that throughout shows that you don't care if he is good enough or not. You've made your opinion based on very very little and you are sticking to it, regardless of anything that is going on. It seems a very common trait in the Benitez tribe.

 

You make out as though you have got these parameters and Rodgers should be sacked because he hasn't met them. If Benitez had took over and done even worse than Rodgers had done and made worse signings you wouldn't be saying this, you would be backing him regardless. You make your opinion then set the parameters later. If Rodgers somehow still got us into the champions league this season your view still wouldn't change. There would be something else wrong. He didn't win us the league cup so would need binning. It puts you in a very weak position to argue because everyone just thinks you are an agenda driven wanker, which is exactly what you are.

 

I don't think I have ever seen you make one positive comment about Rodgers. I can understand people being wary of Rodgers. He is unproven and a lot more tactically positive than people are used to and they don't like it. If you want Rodgers gone then fair enough but don't make out there aren't ANY positive signs from him. There are plenty and there is definitely an argument there are more positive than negative signs. When you make out there are none you just look like a tit but then you probably are one anyway so it's impossible for you not to.

[Guest San Don]

It is not FSG's policy to appoint the best available, it is to appoint those whom they can manage easiest.

 

Ayre, was, and is, not the best MD available. We have no DOF, even though there are have been a number of distinguished candidates. We did not appoint the best Communications Director available. The Board has no football experience on it at all - again numerous non exec appointments could strengthen in.

 

All this pre supposes the best are willing to jack in their current position, come here and accept what we can afford to pay. Unless you're talking the 'best available' who arent already in employment in which case, are they the best if no one else is employing them?

 

Rodgers was not the best available, he was amongst the easiest to manage as he had less PL experience than Ayre and FSG and was just grateful for the job. That does not mean that he does not have some admirable qualities, and promise, he does. Nor does it mean that he cannot enjoy some success- he can.

 

It does mean that the pursuit of excellence at Anfield is fundamentally flawed under this regime.

 

Im not sure he was 'just grateful for the job.' He could have stayed at swansea and built his reputation up instead of jumping after 1 season. Football is litered with managers at all levels who after one 'good' season jumped to a higher level and struggled. Obvious candidates are mclaren and ince.

 

While I applaud anyone with ambition, making a step up on the back of initial rather than repeated success is nearly always a recipe for disaster.

[setreal]

Dalglish would have us finishing around 70 points this season and we would have last season with a normal season at Anfield.

 

 

A few weeks ago:

 

I would be very happy actually, but I dont deal with imaginary scenarios, so I dont feel the need to comment any further.

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/members-forum/111259-season-versus-last-14.html#post3505631

[Gym Beglin]

Agree about us having issues following the Dempsey fail. You look at how we started the season vs how we've done since getting another striker in.

The Borini injuries have also been very unfortunate, you can't legislate for that, and you can't blame him or Rodgers or the medical staff, he's just been very fucking unlucky.

 

Code's problem, or one of them, is that he thinks you can just replace one thing with another and for the process to be linear. IE, Dalglish would have won all the games that Rodgers has won, PLUS picked up more points when we didnt. It's a complete nonsense. Allied to that, Code is very open to confirmation bias because he's been so critical of the appointment of Rodgers.

 

I think Rodgers has to be given the chance to (a) work with the players he has inherited, and (b) be given a further Summer and season to then get rid of any players he thinks that do not conform to his preferred system. He's damned if he does and he's damned if he doesn't. Had he gotten rid of Skrtel and Downing at the beginning of the season then we'd all have been saying that he is closed-minded and didnt give them a chance. But he gave them a chance and at times we've suffered for Skrtel's faults and at other times we've prospered from some of Downing's work. A totally opposite result to what we would have estimated before the season started.

 

People saying that Swansea fans are delighted that we signed Allen ahead of Britton is an example of dunces at play. Do you not think that the manager of Swansea last season might have a better idea of which players is better, having trained them day in, day out, for so long? You think a couple of fans on the fucking internet were in a better position to say which was the better player? Meh, you fucking bombaclats.

 

I'm all for sacking Rodgers WHEN it's clear, beyond all reasonable doubt, that he's the problem. I'm not going to sack him on grounds of probability, after one season, where we've played some delicious football at times but not reached the Champions League.

 

From a footballing point of view, looking it as a fan, I'm appalled by our inability to defend properly. And some people might blame the manager for that, but I dont think there's a case for it. He hasn't changed ANY of the defence, it's been pretty much the same for the last 3 seasons, bar Enrique. Now, for them to not stop crosses, to not win headers, to not push up and help out the midfield, to not see the bigger picture, that's a problem borne of the defenders themselves and a lack of leadership, and a lack of cooperation. I saw Agger trying to push the defence out at one point yesterday and none of them moved. Either he's not loud enough, or they aren't listening, or he's made the wrong call. But for fucks sake, make the error as a unit, not as a set of individuals. Keep your shape, talk to each other, talk with the players ahead of you, manage the threat. You get these qualities in Sunday League footballers, nevermind Premier League footballers 'learning' this.

 

Do we have a defensive coach? I don't know, and to be honest, I dont fucking care. I'd rather we bought intelligent defenders who can manage themselves. All coaching goes out of the window at times, it's upto the players to manage the risks, and right now we're a shambles.

[The Guest]

He deserves another season. Of course he does.

 

However, he needs to learn from his mistakes quickly and some of them have been amateurish.

 

Amazing the amount of people who knew what was going to happen on Saturday as soon as they saw the team sheet.

 

The Joe Allen fixation has to end. Play people on merit Brendan. Why is Henderson back warming the bench after playing out of his skin during his run in the side?

 

Recent managers haven't been afraid to quickly eradicate mistakes in the transfer market. I hope we see the same.

 

I really don't get this.

 

Rafa used to play out of form players week in week out. A player would have a belter of a game then be out the side for weeks on end. Crouch wasn't scoring so got started for 20 odd games. As soon as he starts scoring he gets fucked off, then whilst still in his prime gets sold.

 

Rodgers by an large has been the only manager we have had for long time picking players on form. He didn't like Henderson and Downing but as soon as they started playing well they were getting picked week in week out. The position Henderson has played well in is behind Suarez. Since then we have signed Sturridge and you know what we have played even better in some games with Sturridge and Suarez and so surprise, surprise he picks them two instead. It's not fucking rocket science. I'm sure you and the people like you would be speaking about mistakes had he left one of these out and played Henderson instead and we hadn't won.

 

There is also no fixation with Allen. He's been playing shit so he's been fucked off from the team. Lucas has come back and had a few good games, a few average ones and a few absolute shockers as well. He obviously thought we are playing against Southampton I will give Lucas a break as he has played a lot of football and I will give Allen a chance to get himself back in the team and a confidence boost against one of the relegation strugglers. It didn't work obviously but you can obviously see the reasoning behind it.

 

What are these amateurish mistakes he made on Saturday and keeps making? Who was saying what was going to happen on Saturday? We have been banging sides like Southampton for a large part of the season with the odd blip. He went there and picked a really positive line up unfortunately it didn't work but one win is better than two draws. In the long run these days it is better to have a positive manager than a negative one.

[Bjornebye]

jesus wept.

 

Ok he would not have been my first choice. certainly not without a decent DOF in place anyway however he is here now and bar a few shit results, hasn't done too bad. he was shit on in the summer by the board when it came to improving our attack. in january he made 2 very smart signings. we are better for it. had he been able to bring in two more attacking players in the summer would we be where we are now? I think not. Look how many goals we have scored since sturridge and coutinho arrived.

 

any talk of replacing him now or in the summer is fucking scandalous. he has brought through some decent youngsters and their is a much more positve feel about the place now than their was 6 months ago.

 

we dont have the pull of champions league football to attract world class players right now, nor do we have the revenue in order to do so. looking at his resources, he isn't doing a bad job and it will only get better.

 

as robbie said, people weren't moaning after we beat tottenham or wigan. Ok a few have been consistent in not wanting him but people are up and down based on one fucking result. if we had beaten southampton then the knee jerk brigade would be cumming into their cups of tea over him.

 

this summer is massive for him and if he fucks it up and this time next season we are 7th then yes maybe we need to consider his position but he hasn't even had a full fucking season yet.

 

chill da fuk out. fuk da matrix. etc

[Skidfingers McGonical]

well done sir - the old you are wrong argument

 

Well I think you are and gave reasons why I thought that way.

 

you want to compare rodgers performance to the two previous managers who also failed to improve the team in any meaningful way

 

I am relating his performance against the last 3 not just the last two.

 

we are more or less the same in terms of league performance and we exited all cups in a pitiful fashion despite having the most in-form striker in the league

 

We are better than last season in the league, the figures speak for themselves and also the media and those in the footballing world have been complimenting us on our recent form and performances throughout the season. Which is a lot more than the previous 3.

 

i agree he's not much worse than hodgson or dalglish

 

I am not looking to

 

on the other hand while we had some poor performnces under dalglish i cannot remember as many piss-poor ones as we have had under rodgers and we regularlt gave the top four teams the runaround without getting the results

 

I am sorry mate, but you must have had severe memory loss. Last season I witnessed some of the worst performances I have ever had the displeasure of witnessing in my 34 and a half years on this planet and as a Liverpool supporter.

 

We won 6 games at home last season, 6. That is simply not acceptable. We lost more away than we won. That is also not acceptable.

 

So what if we gave the top 4 a run around, what about the lesser teams who would always turn us over or get a draw. This season we have on more than one occasion battered those kind of teams season, when that was always our weakness.

 

any decent club with meaningful ambitions would have this guy out of the club pronto

 

No they wouldn't because they have a plan, and that plan includes the manager they have chosen. He was a manager who was able to fit the profile of the man they wanted. He may not have been my first choice, but I like him, I like his ethos, I like his use of positive language, I like the way he has called players out in order to get a performance out of them.

 

your acceptance of this level of performance means you are one of the many consenting explicity to this bullshit mediority

 

Right, this kind of bullshit comment fucks me off.

 

I have not, nor has anyone with a similar viewpoint accepted mediocrity. I would like to call it living in the real world of where we are as a club after the H&G era, and to an effect the stewardship of Moores and Parry. We want to be making loads of money and spending money on big players. But to get to that point takes time and hard work. I may not agree with all that FSG are doing, but I sure as hell know some hard decisions need to be made and those decisions to do not automatically fix overnight.

 

So get your head out fo cloud cuckoo land and wake up, Liverpool Football Club is no longer the King of The Park and haven't been for 20 years.

 

please give me some evidence of meaningful improvement?

 

We have scored more goals than last season, won more games and have had more performances of destroying teams than last season. He has bought in the right attacking players in Coutinho and Sturridge. He has Enrique back to the sort of form prior to Christmas last year. He has contributed to Suarez becoming clinical again.

 

Man, he has even got Stewart Downing to look less of a shithouse in recent weeks.

 

That my friend is meaningful improvement

 

and before you got here scoring more goals while having your arse handed to you regulalry at the back is not improvement unless you really know little about the overall objective of a football game which I actually think may be the case with you

 

Defensive lapses are a concern, but that is down to individual errors by the likes of Skrtel, Johnson and Riena. Those individual errors cannot be dropped at the managers feet.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Dalglish would have us finishing around 70 points this season and we would have last season with a normal season at Anfield.

 

Rodgers is taking us backwards, we played far better football last season and our season ended in May not in February.

 

He is taking us nowhere and we will not even qualify for Europe, he has been a disaster and its not a question if he deserves another season, more a question can we afford to give him another season, the answer is noas he will not suddenly change his approach and stop teams walking through our midfield in the massive amount of open space we leave behind.

 

The most shocking thing is he learns nothing from it and we set up the same way the next game no matter who we play, get rid.

 

What fucking crystal ball have you got?

 

Last season, if I am not mistaken, was a normal season consisting of 38 games that we were predominately shit at.

[xerxes]

All this pre supposes the best are willing to jack in their current position, come here and accept what we can afford to pay. Unless you're talking the 'best available' who arent already in employment in which case, are they the best if no one else is employing them?

 

 

 

Im not sure he was 'just grateful for the job.' He could have stayed at swansea and built his reputation up instead of jumping after 1 season. Football is litered with managers at all levels who after one 'good' season jumped to a higher level and struggled. Obvious candidates are mclaren and ince.

 

While I applaud anyone with ambition, making a step up on the back of initial rather than repeated success is nearly always a recipe for disaster.

 

Individual choices will always be open to opinion, however, I believe that there were enough quality candidates as an MD, DOF and DOC to come, if the money was right, and we can certainly afford to pay what it takes.

 

In practice, I don’t think that Rodgers had any alternative but to take the job, we haven’t appointed a less qualified candidate in modern history ( KK, Fagan, Paisley being already on the staff). Few top clubs have ever taken such a chance. The odds were against him “proving” himself at Swansea, the odds were that gravity would bite ( they might not of course). Football managerial success tends to be jumping before you are pushed.he would probably never have had this sort of opportunity again.

 

I agree that “one swallow does not make a summer” ( as the actress said to the bishop). The stumbling block for inexperienced manager is not dealing with success, it is managing failure, and how to respond to it, Burley at Ipswich, Gregory at Villa being two good examples.

 

Sometimes Boards can spot talent, and take a chance. Whether FSG have done that, by luck or judgement remains to be seen.

[Bobby Hundreds]

If we lost Suarez for nine games this season we'd more than likely be a lot closer to the bottom of the league. I don't think Rodgers has improved us nor has our league position shown we've improved as a team just that we've got more games out of our one world class player. This season has been much much worse than last year for me considering we haven't had the Suarez fiasco and the constant battering from the media. There's 8 games to go we could win every one and the league position will look far far better but at this point so far this season, utter shite.

 

Ill add I don't want him sacked as I think he could go either way success or failure so we may aswell give him another year. But there's no way this season can be classed as the manager doing a good job so far.

[Major Tom]

If we lost Suarez for nine games this season we'd more than likely be a lot closer to the bottom of the league.

 

Suarez missed five league games, not nine.

[Magic Sponge]

 

It is not FSG's policy to appoint the best available' date=' it is to appoint those whom they can manage easiest.

 

Ayre, was, and is, not the best MD available. We have no DOF, even though there are have been a number of distinguished candidates. We did not appoint the best Communications Director available. The Board has no football experience on it at all - again numerous non exec appointments could strengthen in.

 

Rodgers was not the best available, he was amongst the easiest to manage as he had less PL experience than Ayre and FSG and was just grateful for the job. That does not mean that he does not have some admirable qualities, and promise, he does. Nor does it mean that he cannot enjoy some success- he can.

 

It does mean that the pursuit of excellence at Anfield is fundamentally flawed under this regime.[/quote']

 

Mention FSG's lack of experience. CHECK

Mention a Director of Football. CHECK

Mention Rodgers lack of experience. CHECK

Gets a hard on for Ayre. CHECK

 

Mix the paragraphs around a bit, continue to leave out the humour and instead set the most fucking monotone posting style, then you're not far of being able to post like good old Sexrex.

[Code]

What fucking crystal ball have you got?

 

Last season, if I am not mistaken, was a normal season consisting of 38 games that we were predominately shit at.

 

We usually get around 40 points at home during a season, last year we only got 27 even if we did not lose our first home game before March.

 

Sometimes things like this happen but it was an anomaly and it would not happen again.

 

Las season we were far away from getting the results our performances deserved in the league due to our habit of hitting the posts and missing clear cut chances, this season we cant complain of things like that and we are were we deserve to be, 3 points ahead of where we were last season at this point, but we did take 10 points from our last seven games so who knows what the difference will be in the end if any?

 

Gerrard only started 12 games last season while he has played every minute of this season and Suarez have not been out and not been carrying a racism case on his neck.

 

All valid reasons to think we would end up with around 70 points with Suarez firing on all cylinders and Gerrard being fit all season if Kenny hadbeen allowed to continue.

 

Yet we have gone backwards in our overall play and only Suarez being on fire and Gerrard being fit is keeping on track to copy our abysmal league season last year and now without the cup runs to give ourself hope and something to look to.

 

This season has been a disaster and the one and only reason is the manager and his naive tactics.

[Bjornebye]

get di canio in and fuck it.