How bad is it?

[Nathanzx]

the last two performances have thoroughly disillusioned me...previous to that our results weren't great but at least we were creating chances but we look abysmal lately, completely devoid of ideas and imagination

 

I started a thread a few months ago saying that with Lucas gone and with our current midfield options we had no chance of fourth, I said our options at midfield could be equated with a midtable side and I was slated by some but we do look relatively weak there...and then after lucas got injured, we lose Suarez for a good chunck of the season thanks to the troika of FA/slur/evra and now we have nothing up front

 

Are we that bad? Two players down and we are looking so average.

 

yes, we might go and produce performances against the manchester sides in the next two games and you'll have people calling the critics whoppers etc. and then we'll have inevitable dropped points in the league against the sunderlands and qpr's of this world as we struggle to get sixth place

 

are we happy with sixth? people will make the usual excuses, it's a season of transition, next year is our year, we've had players put, bad luck etc but simply put, it's not good enough

 

we were onto a winner last season, with maxi and meireles and suarez all interlinking nicely, neat pass and move football and what do we do, we screw it all up with slow plodding wingers and slow so called set piece specialist midfielders and slow ungainly technically poor targetmen - I've said it before and I'll say it again, the 55 million on downing and carroll is every bit as damaging as houlliers diouf/diao/cheyrou 20 million splurge about 10 years ago

 

I have no faith we'll get a champions league spot

 

I have no faith we'll get the necessary players to improve us this window

 

and I am beginning to think the owners are losing faith in the decision-making of comolli/kenny/ayre with their overpriced buy british signings who have already depreciated in value by more than 50% and the haphazard way we handled the Suarez affair - and then of course we are still waiting on stadium news and probably going to go with the cheap soulless option

 

 

Yes i know it's better than it was under Hicks and Gillette (well everything is better apart from results which are just as average if not worse) but that argument doesn't wash

 

How many false dawns have we had in recent times? I am not sure that Kenny is the right choice as manager, I think he would be better suited in some kind of ambassadorial role like bobby charlton at Man U - I think Kenny is to blame for the shocking signings in the last year not Comolli, Comolli himself had said he presents Kenny/the owners with a list of targets and Kenny has the final say - as much as I love the man he has majorly fecked up with the money spent in the last year, do the owners trust him to spend in this window or will they simply quietly shift him upstairs at the end of the season after a disappointing sixth place finish?

 

and how much are the owners willing to spend because the ugly truth is we now need yet another overhaul of the playing squad with at last three or four top quality players necessary for us to challenge to top 4 at a cost of about 100 million, and dumping our failures will only get us in about 20-30 million so are they willing to hand out another 70 million net and will whoever is choosing our targets get it right and will top class targets want to come to a club out of the CL for a third successive year???

 

yes, i know the superfans will criticise this post and say "back the team" etc. but what they fail to realise is that it's because I back the team so much that I feel it necessary to say these painful things and agitate for change and what the superfans don't realise is that the whole "liverpool way" thing, being dignified and gallant and stoic and backing the team and manager no matter what might just be the most damaging thing of all.

 

so how bad is it? pretty bloody awful at the moment and yes we'll turn it on every now and then, but in the last 20 years we have had maybe 2 or 3 seasons when we were even close to challenging for the title and we can be as gallant and dignified as we like but that isn't Liverpool football club and if it means I am a prick or a cock for calling us on our mediocrity, inconsistency and lack of backbone then so be it, I want to see more of the "Bellamy" and "Suarez" spirit at Liverpool - most of the rest of them are just hangers-on, temporary frauds in the red shirt, they should all be willing to die on the field for this great club but we have bought the wrong players and got it wrong again, change is needed again, throw some kids in for the rest of the season-see who can hack it, spend big in the summer and maybe get a radical young coach in there and we might just be sniffing around for league honours again, continue as we are, buying british and patting ourselves on the back when we get the odd big team scalp here and there and we are going nowhere fast and fast fading from the legacy of the club in accepting such mediocrity

 

it's ok not to accept this, this isn't where Liverpool should be

[Delmar]

We're 6 points behind the 4th place with 16 games to go. Not impossible at all. We will not win the league, that much is also clear. It's up to Dalglish now, this is his team by now. We look to be playing without much joy, if Dalglsh manages to turn that around, we're going to be OK. Joy in football does not mean laughter in training and pretty pictures, though, it means enjoying the battle and giving one's all, loving to do it and succeed as a team. And that is not there right now.

[xerxes]

We are on the cusp.

 

Two cup wins this week and we are looking at the opportunity to do a Cup double and stand a great chance of winng the League Cup guaranteeing European football.

 

Frankly,if I were Kenny and faced two cup games to get into Europe, or 16 to do the same in the League i would throw everything at the League Cup..

 

Failure to qualify for Europe next season will further dampen FSG's enthusiasm for ground development, cast doubt over the futures of Pepe and Luis and the downward spiral will continue.

[Beantown Red]

our main goal is to qualify for the Champions League. If we don't, it would be a major disappointment.

 

We need to bring in a goal scorer who is going to make an immediate impact. The worrying thing is that the club seem to be looking at loans or lower valued players. The owners have only spent around 35m with probably another 10m knocked off the wage bill even if you estimate they are only saving 50% of the wages of the deadwood because of payoffs or subsidizing their wages with another club. I actually think Kenny will be let go in the summer if we don't finish top 4 and the owners are treating this season like they wanted to treat last season letting Roy in control until the summer before they bring in who they want. Could be wrong and the club splash some money before the transfer window closes but that is the way it feels for me right now.

[Guest San Don]

the last two performances have thoroughly disillusioned me...previous to that our results weren't great but at least we were creating chances but we look abysmal lately, completely devoid of ideas

it's ok not to accept this, this isn't where Liverpool should be

 

FFS, re read this bit above. 'The last two have thoroughly disillusioned me.'

 

Seriously? The fucking LAST TWO!? And you are now disillusioned?

 

Sometimes, I think we get what we deserve. Last fucking two!? :wallbutt:

[Nathanzx]

for all my disappointment and criticism of the players/signings, that's all fine and dandy but we have what we have, so the two issues that maybe we can affect at the moment are

 

a) will kids get a chance before the end of the season? (if we win carling cup and fade even further from fourth there is zero excuse for not throwing them in)

 

b) are the owners willing to spend/do they trust comolli/kenny to spend wisely?

 

as beantown red has alluded to, net they haven't actually spent that much, with a lot of outgoings and wage bill reduction and the torres fee - so now that we are looking in desperate need of at least three reinforcements (pacy incisive winger, defensive midfield, goalscorers) will they sign the cheques? they look like taking the cheap option on the stadium and we are being linked only with project players, loans and average players for the time being so are they willing to spend? I wouldn't say this is the beginning of H&G mark 2 just yet but certainly I am beginning to have my doubts about how great their investment will be and if they realise the scale of the problem - but as I said they could just say that don't want kenny/comolli to waste any more money.

 

and before someone chimes in and says they said they'd only invest what the club earned, that is not strictly true and was taken out of context, I believe that was said as a long-term aspiration but to get us from also-rans to league contenders they'll have to take a hit, in any case didn't we just hear of a potential 300 million pound kit deal this week and with naming rights on their way for the stadium, there should be plenty of cash around but

 

a) will they spend?

 

and

 

b) will they let comolli and kenny waste any more of their dosh?

[Nathanzx]

FFS, re read this bit above. 'The last two have thoroughly disillusioned me.'

 

Seriously? The fucking LAST TWO!? And you are now disillusioned?

 

Sometimes, I think we get what we deserve. Last fucking two!? :wallbutt:

 

 

the last two were the tip of the iceberg, it certainly wasn't earth-shattering before that and my doubts were growing with each passing draw

 

I believe our quest for CL is finished and the season is a failure

 

I believe the most we will get, and I am being hugely optimistic here is 35 points from our remaining 16 fixtures meaning Chelsea will have to get under 30 points from those 16 fixtures for us to overcome them (assuming we play very well until the end of the season), it also requires arsenal not averaging more than 2 points a game which is more probable but still not definite

 

in short i would be stunned if the 4 CL qualifiers weren't man c, man u. sours, chelsea

[Guest LFD]

We're 6 points behind the 4th place with 16 games to go. Not impossible at all.

 

Yep.

 

A few poor results /performances shouldn't let us forget all the good we have done this season.

 

How many games have we deserved to lose in the league? Bolton, Spurs... that's it really. Every other game we have had enough possession and chances to win.

 

Our defense is still very strong, despite an out of character performance yesterday - it was a bad day at the office, that is all in that regard. Although no doubt we need to get Spearing fit without Lucas he is an important player.

 

Suarez will also make a huge difference, we have hardly seen him together with Gerrard and that will give us a huge lift.

 

But we do need a goal scorer and unless we get one in January, I can't see top four happening.

[xerxes]

are the owners willing to spend/do they trust comolli/kenny to spend wisely?

We are just an investment to FSG, average holding around £10m.Small beer.

 

If we dont finish in the Euro slots is it that big a deal for them? Comolli is their football man, so you can be absolutely sure nothing will be his fault when he reports in.

 

Kenny? The ultimate company man and popular with the fans, why would they want to get rid?

 

Short of a relegation threatening melt down, which won't happen, I predict that FSG wil be happy to sit tight and hope that something will turn up.

[Tyler Durden]

I hate people constantly pointing how far we are behind 4th like it justifies how shite we look,it gets trotted out every year until its blatantly obvious we won't get it then rinse and repeat for the following year.

 

After the way Arsenal and Chelsea have been playing we should be 6 points clear in 4th, I can guarantee you both those teams will improve, especially Chelsea. We've had a good chance here this year to push for it but once again looking like shitting ourselves until its mathematically impossible, it's been ingrained in this team for a few years now.

[Tyler Durden]

We are just an investment to FSG, average holding around £10m.Small beer.

 

If we dont finish in the Euro slots is it that big a deal for them? Comolli is their football man, so you can be absolutely sure nothing will be his fault when he reports in.

 

Kenny? The ultimate company man and popular with the fans, why would they want to get rid?

 

Short of a relegation threatening melt down, which won't happen, I predict that FSG wil be happy to sit tight and hope that something will turn up.

 

Sorry mate but I think that can't possibly be true, you don't spend 200 odd million to buy a club then 'hope' something turns up, how could they even think like that? What exactly might turn up?

[FanchesterCity]

It's not that bad at all.

 

Yes, Liverpool have a very high expectation level, and every year you're not in the running feels like under achievement, but in reality, you're still one of the top teams. There's not a team in the land WANTS to play you (meant in the best possible way!), and nobody really believes you're in decline (even though it's someone said in an attempt to wind you up).

 

You look 3-4 signings away from being right back at the VERY top, and 2 signing away from being a firm top 4. That's not bad. City and Spurs have really upset the applecart (regardless of how / why that's happened).

 

Is Kenny the best tactician? - probably not. But he is IS Liverpool, and more than anything, that's what's been missing (and still is) on the pitch. It's getting better, and hopefully, he'll get the old Liverpool values back. If that means losing a great player with bad attitude, and replacing with a slightly lesser one with a Liverpool heart, so be it. In the long run, Liverpool have won many games as much from the passion and belief as from skill.

 

The past is the past, and it's a proud one to always have. It's also a great platform on which to stand. It guarantees you nothing in the future, but it does give you a psychological edge over the vast majority of other teams.

 

Liverpool are a class club, and one thing that sets apart a class club from others isn't how they behave and act when winning, but how they do it during the more difficult times.

 

Things aren't that bad at all. You could be in Division 2, and STILL things wouldn't be that bad. Because you're Liverpool and you've witnessed things that most other fans will only ever dream of in a lifetime.

 

Count your blessings - you've had many of them, and I'm sure there are more to come.

[Beantown Red]

We are just an investment to FSG, average holding around £10m.Small beer.

 

If we dont finish in the Euro slots is it that big a deal for them? Comolli is their football man, so you can be absolutely sure nothing will be his fault when he reports in.

 

Kenny? The ultimate company man and popular with the fans, why would they want to get rid?

 

Short of a relegation threatening melt down, which won't happen, I predict that FSG wil be happy to sit tight and hope that something will turn up.

 

Yea I am sure they don't care about the 30-40m Champions League qualification is worth and the sponsors will be willing to pay the same amount for a team out of Europe for many years. Top quality players will still be willing to come because we are Liverpool and we won't have to overpay for average players. The supporters will be fine when Reina and other players decide they want to leave.

[Guest LFD]

I hate people constantly pointing how far we are behind 4th like it justifies how shite we look,it gets trotted out every year until its blatantly obvious we won't get it then rinse and repeat for the following year.

 

After the way Arsenal and Chelsea have been playing we should be 6 points clear in 4th, I can guarantee you both those teams will improve, especially Chelsea. We've had a good chance here this year to push for it but once again looking like shitting ourselves until its mathematically impossible, it's been ingrained in this team for a few years now.

 

Yes everything isn't rosey, but we know we have been playing better than the table shows.

 

We have deserved more in some of the games this season and poor finishing and some ref decisions have cost us.

 

Chelsea and Arsenal have not had two owners in Gillett and Hicks we sold our best players without replacing them in Mascherano and Alonso cases. They haven't had the ineptness of Hodgson. They haven't had to have a revolution getting rid of Jovanovic, Poulsen, Konchesky, Soto type players.

 

We are in a transition period and Kenny is doing a good job during that time. It is a shame some of his transfers haven't delivered, but some have.

 

I still think put a half decent finisher in this team and we'd be top four.

[ritchie]

We've been worryingly shite ever since Suarez was found guilty. We've struggled for balance ever since Lucas got injured.

 

The performances are getting gradually worse. We need a lift on Wednesday.

[Red Banjo]

It's not that bad at all.

 

Yes, Liverpool have a very high expectation level, and every year you're not in the running feels like under achievement, but in reality, you're still one of the top teams. There's not a team in the land WANTS to play you (meant in the best possible way!), and nobody really believes you're in decline (even though it's someone said in an attempt to wind you up).

 

You look 3-4 signings away from being right back at the VERY top, and 2 signing away from being a firm top 4. That's not bad. City and Spurs have really upset the applecart (regardless of how / why that's happened).

 

Is Kenny the best tactician? - probably not. But he is IS Liverpool, and more than anything, that's what's been missing (and still is) on the pitch. It's getting better, and hopefully, he'll get the old Liverpool values back. If that means losing a great player with bad attitude, and replacing with a slightly lesser one with a Liverpool heart, so be it. In the long run, Liverpool have won many games as much from the passion and belief as from skill.

 

The past is the past, and it's a proud one to always have. It's also a great platform on which to stand. It guarantees you nothing in the future, but it does give you a psychological edge over the vast majority of other teams.

 

Liverpool are a class club, and one thing that sets apart a class club from others isn't how they behave and act when winning, but how they do it during the more difficult times.

 

Things aren't that bad at all. You could be in Division 2, and STILL things wouldn't be that bad. Because you're Liverpool and you've witnessed things that most other fans will only ever dream of in a lifetime.

 

Count your blessings - you've had many of them, and I'm sure there are more to come.

 

In one. Im gonna rep the shit out of that.

 

The way i see things we are a Llorente away from being competitive, and 2 signing's away from being right up there - as Fanchester here points out.

[Section_31]

It's not that bad at all.

 

Yes, Liverpool have a very high expectation level, and every year you're not in the running feels like under achievement, but in reality, you're still one of the top teams. There's not a team in the land WANTS to play you (meant in the best possible way!), and nobody really believes you're in decline (even though it's someone said in an attempt to wind you up).

 

You look 3-4 signings away from being right back at the VERY top, and 2 signing away from being a firm top 4. That's not bad. City and Spurs have really upset the applecart (regardless of how / why that's happened).

 

Is Kenny the best tactician? - probably not. But he is IS Liverpool, and more than anything, that's what's been missing (and still is) on the pitch. It's getting better, and hopefully, he'll get the old Liverpool values back. If that means losing a great player with bad attitude, and replacing with a slightly lesser one with a Liverpool heart, so be it. In the long run, Liverpool have won many games as much from the passion and belief as from skill.

 

The past is the past, and it's a proud one to always have. It's also a great platform on which to stand. It guarantees you nothing in the future, but it does give you a psychological edge over the vast majority of other teams.

 

Liverpool are a class club, and one thing that sets apart a class club from others isn't how they behave and act when winning, but how they do it during the more difficult times.

 

Things aren't that bad at all. You could be in Division 2, and STILL things wouldn't be that bad. Because you're Liverpool and you've witnessed things that most other fans will only ever dream of in a lifetime.

 

Count your blessings - you've had many of them, and I'm sure there are more to come.

 

A sad sign of the times that a fan of another club is talking the most sense on these boards. Absolutely top class.

[Faustus]

An out of this world post there from Fanchester City.

[xerxes]

Yea I am sure they don't care about the 30-40m Champions League qualification is worth and the sponsors will be willing to pay the same amount for a team out of Europe for many years. Top quality players will still be willing to come because we are Liverpool and we won't have to overpay for average players. The supporters will be fine when Reina and other players decide they want to leave.

The loss of CL income was immediately compensated for by the removal of leveraged debt payments.

 

The Standard Chartered deal and Warrior deals were done as is. Players have been leaving for the past three years to be replaced by more modest acquisitions- it’s happened.

 

If Pepe/Luis ups sticks and the natives get restless? FSG are 3000 miles away. Most have never seen, and will never see, us play.

 

Of course FSG would love CL football and the best players here. Whether they are prepared to finance that is another question.

 

My point is that the point at which alarm bells ring in Boston is a lot later than they will ring on the Kop.Individually it is a minor investment, some you win, some you lose. This is actually an advantage for us because it is unlikley that we ever suffer from a panic decision.

[Tyler Durden]

Yes everything isn't rosey, but we know we have been playing better than the table shows.

 

We have deserved more in some of the games this season and poor finishing and some ref decisions have cost us.

 

Chelsea and Arsenal have not had two owners in Gillett and Hicks we sold our best players without replacing them in Mascherano and Alonso cases. They haven't had the ineptness of Hodgson. They haven't had to have a revolution getting rid of Jovanovic, Poulsen, Konchesky, Soto type players.

 

We are in a transition period and Kenny is doing a good job during that time. It is a shame some of his transfers haven't delivered, but some have.

 

I still think put a half decent finisher in this team and we'd be top four.

 

It was so obvious that we were desperate for a finisher that we should have had one lined up for the 1st of January, instead of now going the whole run of games throught jan without one, dithering costing us points as it did last year with Hodgeson.

 

Regardless of what's gone on we have a real good chance this year to get back in the top 4, a chance we are throwing away. I don't know whether the owners are reluctant to splash cash but we are desperatly short of quality.

 

I'm not advocating Kenny be sacked or nothing but if they are reluctant to sign anyone because of the completely disastrous and costly signings so far then they might aswell because the squad is basically the same one as last year and needs cash spending on it, again.

[zigackly]

It's not that bad at all.

 

Yes, Liverpool have a very high expectation level, and every year you're not in the running feels like under achievement, but in reality, you're still one of the top teams. There's not a team in the land WANTS to play you (meant in the best possible way!), and nobody really believes you're in decline (even though it's someone said in an attempt to wind you up).

 

You look 3-4 signings away from being right back at the VERY top, and 2 signing away from being a firm top 4. That's not bad. City and Spurs have really upset the applecart (regardless of how / why that's happened).

 

Is Kenny the best tactician? - probably not. But he is IS Liverpool, and more than anything, that's what's been missing (and still is) on the pitch. It's getting better, and hopefully, he'll get the old Liverpool values back. If that means losing a great player with bad attitude, and replacing with a slightly lesser one with a Liverpool heart, so be it. In the long run, Liverpool have won many games as much from the passion and belief as from skill.

 

The past is the past, and it's a proud one to always have. It's also a great platform on which to stand. It guarantees you nothing in the future, but it does give you a psychological edge over the vast majority of other teams.

 

Liverpool are a class club, and one thing that sets apart a class club from others isn't how they behave and act when winning, but how they do it during the more difficult times.

 

Things aren't that bad at all. You could be in Division 2, and STILL things wouldn't be that bad. Because you're Liverpool and you've witnessed things that most other fans will only ever dream of in a lifetime.

 

Count your blessings - you've had many of them, and I'm sure there are more to come.

 

I endorse this dose of reality into the FF.

[ben48]

Apparently Lucas is back in the country, perhaps he might be able to tell one of these clowns how to play the defensive midfielder role correctly,( That should spark silverling out of his slumber). we miss the lad no doubt about it,(Lucas that is).

[boomer39]

at fanchestercity...

assume you are a blue manc... bless..only team in manchester.....

been there in the 50's and early 60's.. supported us end of..shanks won nothing from 1966 till 1974.. talk of sacking ??? no way.. nowadays , win nowt for 2 years.. sacked.. loda bollocks...

[DooooodekNo5]

I cant help feeling exactly the same way as OP , its completly fucking insane that we still need to strenghen the positions that we spunked all that money on and the fact that arguably we look a worse team this season than last after all that investment , its hard to put into words how fucking depressing that is....... 55 million on Downing and Carroll makes me want to throw up every time i see hear or think about it.

 

As mentioned there will never be a better chance to get back to top 4 than this season , yeah we can moan about bad luck with all the chances going begging and woodwork but if we had spent that money with just a slight bit of sense we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

If any of us were Henry/FSG would you give Kenny £50-60m to spend this summer to try again ?

 

Will they really risk it ? i just cant see it and i couldn't argue with it either , all that money spunked up the wall will cost Kenny his job.

[DooooodekNo5]

The loss of CL income was immediately compensated for by the removal of leveraged debt payments.

 

The Standard Chartered deal and Warrior deals were done as is. Players have been leaving for the past three years to be replaced by more modest acquisitions- it’s happened.

 

If Pepe/Luis ups sticks and the natives get restless? FSG are 3000 miles away. Most have never seen, and will never see, us play.

 

Of course FSG would love CL football and the best players here. Whether they are prepared to finance that is another question.

 

My point is that the point at which alarm bells ring in Boston is a lot later than they will ring on the Kop.Individually it is a minor investment, some you win, some you lose. This is actually an advantage for us because it is unlikley that we ever suffer from a panic decision.

 

Were suffering from a £35 million panic decision or am i missing something ?