Evra accuses Suarez of racism

[Horus]

Fuck me.

 

This is the problem with things today. If something's not white, it's coloured. Doesn't matter if it's skin colour or not. I suppose if he'd said "non-white" as opposed to coloured everything would be ok?

Tis the same as (over here) being Irish or non-Irish. If you're not Irish, you can be called non-Irish or a foreign national. You can't be called a foreigner though, as all hell would break loose.

 

It's this sort of pussy-fotting, nit-picking shit that's got everything fucked up. Everyone knows what racist terms are...I don't need to list them. People trying to make that list bigger are making problems for everyone.

 

As an aside to the above, and pardon the language, but if someone had called Evra a fucking spic, would he be charged? Technically it's a racist term, but it's not relating to Evra's race, skin colour, or nationality.

 

This is purely about historical context, and is nothing to do with PC-Britain.

 

We live on an island that has serious historical issues with it's treatment of other peoples and races. We raped countries, their people and enslaved the natives. These are historical facts, and suffered with severe racism problems right up until very recently, and sections of the population still have those irrational beliefs.

 

So do you know what? I don't give a fuck, if, by realigning our terminology we've gone a little too far the other way. We are a despicable fucking country in historical terms, and we have to take that into consideration, even to the detriment of all the whites that were born here, in "our own fucking country".

 

I support Luis Suarez completely in this matter, and don't believe it's possible for someone with a black grandfather to be racist, but let's not use this as an excuse to pretend that us whites are being marginalised and slighted.

 

And no, not everyone does know what racist terms are, as your post proves.

[xerxes]

Sorry Xerxes but that is simply not how things work - if you are called to a disciplinary hearing you do not get to dictate the terms of reference or the process. You can choose whether to engage or not but that is pretty much the extent of your discretion.

 

The club's statement clearly states that it is awaiting receipt of the written judgment. The FA has acted in accordance with its own stated disciplinary procedure. We do not call the shots here and I think it is desperately unfair to criticise Ayres and the legal team in this regard as it is not something they have any ability to control. What evidence do you have of a dereliction of duty?

 

 

 

The FA Disciplinary rules, which I provided a link to a post or so ago, clearly provide for a break between a complaint and a charge for the defendant to make their case. Warnings regarding future conduct and undertakings regarding future conduct are specific sanctions- short of a charge. My question is how good a case did our team put up at that point?

 

There was nothing to stop us requesting that the adjudication and verdict be made public simultaneously, we were informed of the verdict before it was made public. The damage that such an interval would cause Suarez and LFC was obvious (apart it appears to them). If the FA had refused, that refusal could have been made public strengthening our position.

 

As for criticism, at this point I am asking questions, But two failures are evident. First to get the result which the balance of available evidence ( I accept that the detailed adjudication may change this)suggested, second, to manage the fallout and win the PR argument.

 

The questions I have are as follows:

1. Who was in charge of this?

 

2. Who at the Club has experience of handling FA Tribunals?

 

3. Who conducted the case for the defence, and what are their credentials (Paul Goulding’s are formidable)?

 

4. What was Ayre’s assessment of this case to FSG? How have events borne that assessment out?

 

5. It appears that there may be no video or third party evidence against Luis, it is one persons word against another. As fans, our belief is that there is sufficient linguistic/cultural ambiguity in this case to make a guilty charge impossible. Suarez made a statement to the FA, in a language which is not his mother tongue and to a judicial system with which he will not be familiar. What guidance was he given in the statement he made? Did our legal team allow him to make a statement which has convicted him?

 

6. The Disciplinary process provides for sanctions short of formal charges. Did Luis/LFC offer an apology for any unintended offence any words he may have used had caused? Did LFC suggest that this highlighted the absence of education and guidance at all clubs, not just LFC, for foreign non-native English speakers, and suggest a programme be put in place to support anti racism, which the club supports? In other words – how smart were we?

 

7. Why did not our legal team attempt to buy time, as per the second para, to tie the verdict to the facts?

 

8. What notice and preparation did our PR team have? What preparations were made for an adverse verdict?

 

 

 

I do not want to anticipate what the result of the detailed adjudication will be. To date, the fans, players and Kenny have been superb- let’s hope that the people whose job it was to get this right can say the same.

Edited December 22, 2011 by xerxes

[LFC64]

apologies if this has already been posted but this just one example of the difference in how our media is treating the subject and how it is treated beyond these shores

 

One word with many meanings translates into sports controversy - CNN.com

[zico]

It does seem to be a rather massive hole in the FA's position does it not? Clearly by their own rules they can investigate and charge players without a complaint being made e.g. Terry, I assume charges for Evra will now follow?

 

This is a situation that should have been cleared up between both players after the match. It's astounding that Evra has chosen to complain to the match official especially given his own apparent conduct.

 

So the FA are only interested in racism if it's an insult to one particular race? Isn't that racist?

 

It's the definition of racism, but then again the FA are both racist and bigoted....

[TheHowieLama]

Ayre. Ian Ayre. Not Ayres, Ayre.

 

It is all hot ayre till the written judgement.

[ChrisM]

Xerxes - how the fuck were the club ever going to win the 'PR argument' after Suarez was found guilty?

 

You always seem rather eager to grab any available stick to beat the club with.

[zico]

The blow is to the reputation of LFC and Suarez, with significant questions to be asked as to what extent those blows have been suffered by inaction, or the wrong action by the club in its handling of this.

 

To be honest I think the biggest blow is to the nation England, as people around the world will see this and shake their heads in be-wilderness.

 

The hypocrisy is there for all to see! To fly a a private plane to plead a case for a convicted thug, yet charge another (foreigner mind you) 9 games for saying something which in his own language is not even bad, when answering a racist slur from some manc joker, is nothing short of ridiculous!

[TheHowieLama]

Somebody is playing Legal Manager 2012 on the puter when Moms not home.

[goatboy59]

"Also, darling, make a note of the word 'bewilderness'. I like it, I want to use it more in conversation".

 

;)

[xerxes]

Xerxes - how the fuck were the club ever going to win the 'PR argument' after Suarez was found guilty?You always seem rather eager to grab any available stick to beat the club with.

 

I think that most of us think that Luis has been harshly treated, the reasons for that transcend being a Liverpool fan.

 

The detailed adjudication may put a different spin on things. The Club may have done all it could have done.

 

I have a view that LFC is the team we put out on the pitch and that everything should be working towrads getting that bit right. If that means asking questions of those whose job it is to get that right, none of us should shy away from that.

 

Results are the end of a process. Never look at a result without first examining the process critically. If the process is robust, it will withstand scrutiny, if it isnt, it will be exposed.

 

Far from beating the Club with a stick, I am certain that JW will be asking EXACTLY the same questions of Ian Ayre, from whom we have heard little.

[clangers]

I'm still waiting to see the evidence, how long does it take them to type up two lines?

[RedPaul]

I'm still waiting to see the evidence, how long does it take them to type up two lines?

 

It's scandalous isn't it? Hang a man out to dry and not give the full reasons for doing so. Me thinks they are trying to cover every legal angle possible before publication and checking every word to make it as watertight as possible and not be slanderous.

[goatboy59]

 

"Me ears are alight"

[navbasi]

I think that most of us think that Luis has been harshly treated, the reasons for that transcend being a Liverpool fan.

 

The detailed adjudication may put a different spin on things. The Club may have done all it could have done.

 

I have a view that LFC is the team we put out on the pitch and that everything should be working towrads getting that bit right. If that means asking questions of those whose job it is to get that right, none of us should shy away from that.

 

Results are the end of a process. Never look at a result without first examining the process critically. If the process is robust, it will withstand scrutiny, if it isnt, it will be exposed.

 

Far from beating the Club with a stick, I am certain that JW will be asking EXACTLY the same questions of Ian Ayre, from whom we have heard little.

 

Just because he hasn't come out and publically said anything, does that matter? Do you think he's not involved in everything that Liverpool are putting out at the moment? Seriously mate, you're doing my fucking head in.

[J-V]

I read somewhere else that The Times report they have been informed that the 'documents' won't be made available to LFC until the third week in Jan.

[goatboy59]

Four weeks of Suarez being fucked up the arse and Evra's role being studiously ignored?

 

That would sound about right with this detestable farce.

[xerxes]

Just because he hasn't come out and publically said anything, does that matter? Do you think he's not involved in everything that Liverpool are putting out at the moment? .

 

No I don't think that we have not heard from Ian himself is necessarily a problem.I espect he is a little busy at the moment. Exactly who has elected to do what, when, and with what guidance, will be interesting to learn.

[xerxes]

I read somewhere else that The Times report they have been informed that the 'documents' won't be made available to LFC until the third week in Jan.

 

If true, that is totally unacceptable. If the evidence is good enough to convict, it is good enough to publish.

[navbasi]

I read somewhere else that The Times report they have been informed that the 'documents' won't be made available to LFC until the third week in Jan.

 

Hmmmm... 3rd week in January gives us 14 days to appeal which coincides nicely with the John Terry court hearing on 1st Feb..... Or maybe Slur has to have a good look through first and make any changes before LFC see it.

[.G.]

We were given 14 days to appeal from the date of the judgement.The club will have to be furnished with the full reasons for the judgement before that time runs out otherwise its impossible to decide on appeal or not.

 

I'd say the club has it already and its just the general public being made to wait so the damage to Suarez's rep is maximised while we are all waiting

[TheHowieLama]

Or maybe Slur has to have a good look through first and make any changes before LFC see it.

 

A little editing, couple changes here and there and it will be good to go.

[RedEagle]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I'm still lost however. The FA won't need this 'evidence' if Suarez has admitted saying 'Negrito' or whatever he's said. The evidence is right their. Suarez has admitted saying it. Now, I believe the FA are completely wrong to charge him as the term was not used in a racist manner and the term itself is not racist. That's just the FA being fools. But I don't understand the argument that there was no other witnesses as Suarez has admitted using the term.

[Gym Beglin]

If true, that is totally unacceptable. If the evidence is good enough to convict, it is good enough to publish.

 

We're going to drill the FA a new arsehole on this issue. They can call Suarez a racist, something his kids will hear them call him, but they can't produce evidence to back that up?

[navbasi]

We were given 14 days to appeal from the date of the judgement.The club will have to be furnished with the full reasons for the judgement before that time runs out otherwise its impossible to decide on appeal or not.

 

I'd say the club has it already and its just the general public being made to wait so the damage to Suarez's rep is maximised while we are all waiting

 

No mate, we have 14 days to appeal from when LFC receive the documents NOT the date of the judgement.

[CWD82]

We were given 14 days to appeal from the date of the judgement.The club will have to be furnished with the full reasons for the judgement before that time runs out otherwise its impossible to decide on appeal or not.

 

I'd say the club has it already and its just the general public being made to wait so the damage to Suarez's rep is maximised while we are all waiting

 

It was 14 days from the time the club receives all documentation.

 

That last paragraph of yours reads like you think the club have the evidence but aren't publishing it in an attempt to harm Suarez reputation. Mad