When are we likely to get definitive stadium news?

[xerxes]

If designed properly, the ARE could be rebuilt as a massive 3 tier stand. I think it currently holds about 9500. Built over the current road or even if the road is diverted, it would be easy to build a stand with over 15000 seats.

 

The new Main Stand then 'only' needs another 10000 seats to bring the capacity over 60k.

 

Villa's Holte End, the largest in the country, currently holds 13,472. Beyond that, cost and sightlines make a larger capacity unlikely.

 

The current ARE capacity is 9074, so a new ARE will probably struggle to deliver more than 4,500 new seats.

 

The Main Stand's capacity is 12,277. to deliver a 60k capacity it will have to offer 11,000 extra seats ( almost double). But the current Centenary stand only has a capacity of 11,762, and Villa's modern trinity Road triple tier stand only offers 12,954 seats.

 

The challenge, and scale, of a stand offering 23,277 seats, has no simple solution.

[Guest San Don]

The question “ Why are we no longer playing European football? “ means just that.

 

I agree with your immediate answer to the question, you too will acknowledge that the root causes run far deeper.

 

LFC are the second best supported club by English football in the history of the English game, our European Cup triumphs amongst an elite three. If you feel that our current capacity and resultant artificially stunted average attendance reflects that, fine. I don’t. Both shame the fine traditions and potential of our club. The erosion of the capacity and standard of Anfield as a World cup ground in 1966 till now, when we are no longer a top rated UEFA ground, is an embarrassment.

 

If you feel in the period from 1965 to 2005 (the last time we were European Champions) that we were ( or were not) in the top 20 European clubs by average home attendance, make your case. If you feel that our current capacity and ground status is acceptable for a club of our stature- good for you.

 

There you go again, dodging the question and failing to answer when challenged. Seeing as you're the one blabbing about not being in the top 60 etc, etc, the onus is on you to support your case.

 

The fact of the matter is, that at the height of our success, Anfield didnt have the largest capacity in England, it didnt even have the second or third largest capacity either.

 

In European terms, Anfield was also a small capacity as many European clubs played in either local community stadiums such as in Italy or Germany typically with capacity over 60000, their own stadiums like the Santiago Bernabeu, Camp Nou etc.

 

The bottom line is, the club could expand Anfield to 60k or even move to a new 60k build and you'd still be on here spouting unsubstantiated shite.

 

Villa's Holte End, the largest in the country, currently holds 13,472. Beyond that, cost and sightlines make a larger capacity unlikely.

 

The current ARE capacity is 9074, so a new ARE will probably struggle to deliver more than 4,500 new seats.

 

You see this is where you prove you know nothing. Maybe you havent been to Anfield in a few years? have you see the space from the edge of Anfield Road to the Park boundary?

 

Even if the club didnt build right back to the boundary and leave 10 metres between any stand and the park, the redeveloped ARE would be huge and dwarf the Kop never mind the holte end. You would easity build a 15000 seat stand (and bigger subject to planning permission if you wanted) on that footprint. And that doesnt take into account any effort to join the ARE to the exist Centenary structure or curve the ARE into a new Main Stand.

 

The Main Stand's capacity is 12,277. to deliver a 60k capacity it will have to offer 11,000 extra seats ( almost double). But the current Centenary stand only has a capacity of 11,762, and Villa's modern trinity Road triple tier stand only offers 12,954 seats.

 

The challenge, and scale, of a stand offering 23,277 seats, has no simple solution.

 

The current Main Stand is a single tier structure with a small tie into the existing ARE. The new Main Stand could be built as a triple decker. I think manchester united's north stand is 4 tiers but I may be wrong. The Main Stand would easily accommodate a doubling of capacity given the houses to be demolished.

 

So, increasing the ARE substantially, tieing in to the Centenary, tieing into a new Main Stand and, building a triple deck Main Stand would quite easily achieve the extra 15k seats over the existing 45k even if there was no tieing in to the centenary.

 

Go away and do your sums again.

[xerxes]

There you go again, dodging the question and failing to answer when challenged. Seeing as you're the one blabbing about not being in the top 60 etc, etc, the onus is on you to support your case..

 

My point was that a club of our status, and position as the second best supported club in the history of the English game NOW should not be outside the top 20 best suported clubs by home average attendance and the top 60 grounds in Europe by capacity.

 

If you wish to trawl back to 1965- go ahead.

[xerxes]

The fact of the matter is, that at the height of our success, Anfield didnt have the largest capacity in England, it didnt even have the second or third largest capacity either.

 

In European terms, Anfield was also a small capacity as many European clubs played in either local community stadiums such as in Italy or Germany typically with capacity over 60000, their own stadiums like the Santiago Bernabeu, Camp Nou etc.

 

The bottom line is, the club could expand Anfield to 60k or even move to a new 60k build and you'd still be on here spouting unsubstantiated shite.

 

I have substantiated my points with facts- which are wrong?The problem is not my facts, but your reading age.

 

It is true that historically we have never had close to the biggest ground in mainland Europe, or England. I never claimed otherwise.

 

However is it right that anfield should now offer a smaller capacity than the Stadium of Light, Ethiad and St James' Park?

 

I still believe that we have the potential to challenge the euro elite, our peers in terms of honours, Bayern Munich and Real Madrid, both have substantially larger stadia, Man U, the Milans and Barcelona too.

 

Your complaceny regarding the inaction of the Board over the past twenty years is baffling. Your dream that somehow we can relive the 80's again without substantial change misplaced.

[xerxes]

 

You see this is where you prove you know nothing. Maybe you havent been to Anfield in a few years? have you see the space from the edge of Anfield Road to the Park boundary?

 

Even if the club didnt build right back to the boundary and leave 10 metres between any stand and the park, the redeveloped ARE would be huge and dwarf the Kop never mind the holte end. You would easity build a 15000 seat stand (and bigger subject to planning permission if you wanted) on that footprint. And that doesnt take into account any effort to join the ARE to the exist Centenary structure or curve the ARE into a new Main Stand.

 

 

 

The current Main Stand is a single tier structure with a small tie into the existing ARE. The new Main Stand could be built as a triple decker. I think manchester united's north stand is 4 tiers but I may be wrong. The Main Stand would easily accommodate a doubling of capacity given the houses to be demolished.

 

So, increasing the ARE substantially, tieing in to the Centenary, tieing into a new Main Stand and, building a triple deck Main Stand would quite easily achieve the extra 15k seats over the existing 45k even if there was no tieing in to the centenary.

 

Go away and do your sums again.

 

I particularly enjoyed this post. As usual you post to object without any idea of what you are objecting to.

 

As you know I am an Anfield regular, and know a modest amount about construction, development and football stadia.

 

The Holte end is the size it is for a reason ( as was explained in my post which you didn’t understand). Beyond that size, specifically sightlines deteriorate, and costs (per seat) soar. The issue is not one of space, but of practicality and economics.

 

There is potential for a Centenary side quadrant, but the existing stand already sits very tight on the ARE, and the scale would create Right to Light problems if brought around.

 

The ARE could wrap around into a new main stand as Birmingham City have done with their Kop/Tilton stands providing quadrant space there. It will almost certainly need to. You are right to identify Man U’s North Stand as the scale of structure which will be needed to provide the required extra capacity. It is huge. Whether we can secure enough land to facilitate both it, and Right to Light requirements remains to be seen. Furthermore the massing will be such that it will almost certainly prompt objections from local businesses and residents. The decision will set the standard for future development in the area so cannot be made as part of a sweetheart deal between LFC and the Council. The Council and the area will be bound by what happens for years to come.

 

The attractions of redevelopment versus new build have been consistently exaggerated by the Club and some gullible fans. Redevelopment IS possible, once we see what capacity and facilities are delivered we can make a judgement. I hope we get it right.

[Guest San Don]

I particularly enjoyed this post. As usual you post to object without any idea of what you are objecting to.

 

As you know I am not an Anfield regular, and dont know a modest amount about construction, development and football stadia.

 

I dont think you know your arse from your elbow but I'll indulge you a little even if you never answer your own questions, instead preferring to float more questions in a hap hazard manner.

 

The Holte end is the size it is for a reason ( as was explained in my post which you didn’t understand). Beyond that size, specifically sightlines deteriorate, and costs (per seat) soar. The issue is not one of space, but of practicality and economics.

 

Almost totally wrong. The Holte end is restricted by a main road that runs behind it. Sightlines have nothing to do with its size. Villa were limited by only being able to build a single tier on the existing structure and available underpinnings. Similarly, the Trinity Road stand required the road to be re routed and did not give as much space as there is behind the ARE.

 

As an example on stand sizes, I point you again to united's north stand. It is at least 3 tiers. As with all modern stands being built to a cantilever design, sightlines are not affected. Granted, the view from the back rows may not be that impressive but united dont have a problem filling them.

 

Cost wise, the club has already introduced a tiered pricing structure (but if you're an Anfield regular as you claim, you'd know this) so all the club need do if it wished would be to charge a reduced price for the back rows.

 

Now, I'd bet you a pound to a penny that any rebuilt ARE as I suggested wouldnt go back as far nor as high as united's north stand so again, your comments about sight lines is immaterial.

 

There is potential for a Centenary side quadrant, but the existing stand already sits very tight on the ARE, and the scale would create Right to Light problems if brought around.

 

Nope, because the nearest houses are some distance away after the club bought up and flattened what is now the matchday food village. Clearly any tie in to the Centenary wouldnt be big and in any event, my statement said it was a possibility and not needed to attain a 60k capacity.

 

The ARE could wrap around into a new main stand as Birmingham City have done with their Kop/Tilton stands providing quadrant space there. It will almost certainly need to. You are right to identify Man U’s North Stand as the scale of structure which will be needed to provide the required extra capacity. It is huge. Whether we can secure enough land to facilitate both it, and Right to Light requirements remains to be seen. Furthermore the massing will be such that it will almost certainly prompt objections from local businesses and residents. The decision will set the standard for future development in the area so cannot be made as part of a sweetheart deal between LFC and the Council. The Council and the area will be bound by what happens for years to come.

 

What you have posted there is just inane drivel. I suggest you go away and start doing some more research because the above proves you havent to date.

 

The attractions of redevelopment versus new build have been consistently exaggerated by the Club and some gullible fans. Redevelopment IS possible, once we see what capacity and facilities are delivered we can make a judgement. I hope we get it right.

 

You've just given yourself a dichotomy there. No wonder you're confused.

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

The question “ Why are we no longer playing European football? “ means just that.

 

LFC are the second best supported club by English football in the history of the English game, our European Cup triumphs amongst an elite three. If you feel that our current capacity and resultant artificially stunted average attendance reflects that, fine.

 

you meant to say four, didn't you?

[MajesticSuarez]

In order to succeed we need to ensure that we redevelop the ground without reducing our transfer budget. We must ensure an expanded stadium increases our transfer budget and we remain competitive. If it's leveraged, it will be detrimental to our chances of competing.

[Guest San Don]

Anfield re generation gets underway with first demolition.

 

Demolitions begin for £260m Anfield regeneration scheme (VIDEO) - Liverpool Echo

 

The first demolitions of empty houses since the announcement of a major regeneration of Anfield are now underway.

 

The entire of Salisbury Road is currently being ripped down as part of works that will take around three months to complete.

 

Once the houses are compeletly razed, the street will be grassed over and planted with wild flowers until builders the Keepmoat Group move on site next year.

 

Yesterday, council cabinet member for housing Cllr Ann O’Byrne visited the street, off Oakfield road, to witness the Victorian terraces being torn down by diggers.

 

Around 15 hectares of land is now coming close to being ready for up to 100 homes to be built, with Your Housing Group (formerly Arena Housing) signed up as a partner.

 

 

 

Cllr O’Byrne said the demolitions were the end of an era and the beginning of a bright new future for the area, which has had to suffer uncertainty as to its future for over a decade.

 

She added: “The people round here are going to get what they need and deserve, which is good family homes with gardens and driveways.”

 

Despite working only starting at the beginning of the week, some houses in the middle of the terrace have already had their entire insides scooped out, with only the back walls remaining.

 

On the other side of the road, work is going on to completely empty the properties ahead of being demolished.

 

Well over 90% of the materials from the houses will be reclaimed and used in other projects, while anything that can’t be salvaged, such as brick debris, will be ground down and used in roads.

 

David Wroe, new build managing director for Keepmoat, said: “The demolition of these derelict properties is another significant step in helping to regenerate this local community. We have already seen the demand for high quality new build homes in this area and the next 100 homes will include a mix of house types and prices that will appeal to many first time buyers, young professionals and families.”

 

Your Housing chief executive Brian Cronin said: “These demolitions mark another milestone in the regeneration of Anfield and are further evidence of the rapid progress which is now being made by Liverpool council and its partners.”

 

Earlier this year, the council, Liverpool Football Club and social landlord Your Housing revealed blueprints for a regeneration project for the area worth up to £260m, with enhancements to Anfield stadium and new and refurbished homes.

 

Part of the project will also see a hospitality training centre which will also be a fully working hotel. It will be owned by local charity Positive Futures North Liverpool.

 

Its chief executive Clare Corran said the project would allow the charity to develop “further, sustainable projects to support young people.

 

Anfield regeneration houses in line for industry award

 

The regeneration of Anfield has been shortlisted for a major industry award.

 

The work, which has seen around 300 new homes built so far, has made it a contender in the National Housebuilder Awards.

 

Bobby Norman, 75, lived in Rockfield Road until moving into a new house in the Parks development off Robson Street, built by Keepmoat.

 

He told the ECHO: “I brought up my family there but when the houses either side were emptied, kids took the slate off the roof and damp got into our walls. I was in hospital a couple of times.

 

“When the woman from the council said they could get me a new home, it was going to be around £95,000, which was nearly £35,000 different from what they paid for my old house. I told her I didn't want a mortgage, as my old house was paid for before she was born.”

 

Mr Norman was offered a lifetime mortgage, which means the shortfall is covered and it is reclaimed when he dies.

 

He added: “So in the end I got an excellent new home and it didn't really cost me anything.”

[xerxes]

you meant to say four, didn't you?

 

Bayern's win does indeed create a four.

[xerxes]

I dont think you know your arse from your elbow but I'll indulge you a little even if you never answer your own questions, instead preferring to float more questions in a hap hazard manner.

 

 

 

Almost totally wrong. The Holte end is restricted by a main road that runs behind it. Sightlines have nothing to do with its size. Villa were limited by only being able to build a single tier on the existing structure and available underpinnings. Similarly, the Trinity Road stand required the road to be re routed and did not give as much space as there is behind the ARE.

 

As an example on stand sizes, I point you again to united's north stand. It is at least 3 tiers. As with all modern stands being built to a cantilever design, sightlines are not affected. Granted, the view from the back rows may not be that impressive but united dont have a problem filling them.

 

Cost wise, the club has already introduced a tiered pricing structure (but if you're an Anfield regular as you claim, you'd know this) so all the club need do if it wished would be to charge a reduced price for the back rows.

 

Now, I'd bet you a pound to a penny that any rebuilt ARE as I suggested wouldnt go back as far nor as high as united's north stand so again, your comments about sight lines is immaterial.

 

 

 

Nope, because the nearest houses are some distance away after the club bought up and flattened what is now the matchday food village. Clearly any tie in to the Centenary wouldnt be big and in any event, my statement said it was a possibility and not needed to attain a 60k capacity.

 

 

 

What you have posted there is just inane drivel. I suggest you go away and start doing some more research because the above proves you havent to date.

 

 

 

You've just given yourself a dichotomy there. No wonder you're confused.

 

Few things give me as much pleasure as exposing your lack of knowledge beyond the white lines.

 

The Holte End is not restricted by a road behind it. There is a large car park behind it. The footprint was altered. The original lower tier was not retained. Wrong .

 

Size and sightlines are inextricably linked. You can either go sideways ( severely restricted at any end) or up, and there comes a point where the view is simply not worth building stand that high. So wrong again.

 

The Trinity Road stand was not re-routed. Wrong again. At the Holte End wing, it was bridged.

 

Man u’s North Stand is a side stand. Our redeveloped Main Stand will need to be of a similar size. The issue is not in filling the stand ( at a price we could fill anything) again you are wrong, The problem is that the higher you go, not only are sightlines affected, but the costs increase while revenue does not.

 

My claim is not to confuse a side stand (Northe Stand) with an end stand as you do, it is to say that the Holte End as an end stand is the largest in the League, and we will have to at least match that to deliver a 60k capacity.

 

Any quadrant on the centenary side would need to be of a scale to match the ARE to make it worth while. We need some big numbers to reach 60k.

 

As for the latter two para’s when you don’t understand- just ask.

 

“Given yourself a dichotomy”:P

 

I hope that helps.

;)

[Code]

So we are planting some flowers instead of building a new stadium then, makes sense I guess.

[Sangria]

Code you are relentless, we are moving forward for the first time in countless years of false promises and pie in the sky bullshit.

Credit where it is due.

 

We are expanding Anfield, it may not happen overnight but these things tend to take time but it is happening.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

So we are planting some flowers instead of building a new stadium then, makes sense I guess.

 

I'd imagine it's smart to get planning permission before starting on the stadium.

[Code]

Code you are relentless, we are moving forward for the first time in countless years of false promises and pie in the sky bullshit.

Credit where it is due.

 

We are expanding Anfield, it may not happen overnight but these things tend to take time but it is happening.

 

I'm sorry mate, but I'm not sure how demolition of houses in Salisbury Road can be seen as evidence of us doing anything to the stadium really.

 

Its good to see things being done, but I do not see a direct link.

 

Maybe someone living in the Anfield area could help us out.

[Guest San Don]

Few things give me as much pleasure as exposing your lack of knowledge beyond the white lines.

 

The Holte End is not restricted by a road behind it. There is a large car park behind it. The footprint was altered. The original lower tier was not retained. Wrong .

 

Size and sightlines are inextricably linked. You can either go sideways ( severely restricted at any end) or up, and there comes a point where the view is simply not worth building stand that high. So wrong again.

 

The Trinity Road stand was not re-routed. Wrong again. At the Holte End wing, it was bridged.

 

Man u’s North Stand is a side stand. Our redeveloped Main Stand will need to be of a similar size. The issue is not in filling the stand ( at a price we could fill anything) again you are wrong, The problem is that the higher you go, not only are sightlines affected, but the costs increase while revenue does not.

 

My claim is not to confuse a side stand (Northe Stand) with an end stand as you do, it is to say that the Holte End as an end stand is the largest in the League, and we will have to at least match that to deliver a 60k capacity.

 

Any quadrant on the centenary side would need to be of a scale to match the ARE to make it worth while. We need some big numbers to reach 60k.

 

As for the latter two para’s when you don’t understand- just ask.

 

“Given yourself a dichotomy”:P

 

I hope that helps.

;)

 

Sorry to piss on your chips, like, but, you're wrong. Again.

 

Here's a picture of Villa Park.

 

 

The Holt End does have a (small) car park behind it. Why do you think that is? Its because Trinity Road and Witton Lan form a triangle with the stand making it difficult to get a larger structure in there.

 

The holt end has been developed. A new tier was placed on the existing structure.

 

I did make a mistake when I said Trinity Road had been re routed. It has not but they did build over the road in one corner.

 

It was in fact Witton Lane which was re routed and move a few meters to allow for the extension of what is now the Doug Ellis stand. This can be seen in the picture above and was widely reported at the time of the development. It can even be seen on the stadium plan \ road map on villa's website.

[Guest San Don]

Although Salisbury Road isnt right next to Anfield, its part of the regeneration area.

 

They have to start somewhere and, as negotiations are still ongoing with some landlords backing onto the ground and no build plans submitted by the club, you cant expect them to start right on top of the ground.

[xerxes]

Sorry to piss on your chips, like, but, you're wrong. Again.

 

Here's a picture of Villa Park.

 

 

The Holt End does have a (small) car park behind it. Why do you think that is? Its because Trinity Road and Witton Lan form a triangle with the stand making it difficult to get a larger structure in there.

 

The holt end has been developed. A new tier was placed on the existing structure.

 

I did make a mistake when I said Trinity Road had been re routed. It has not but they did build over the road in one corner.

 

It was in fact Witton Lane which was re routed and move a few meters to allow for the extension of what is now the Doug Ellis stand. This can be seen in the picture above and was widely reported at the time of the development. It can even be seen on the stadium plan \ road map on villa's website.

 

First rule of holes San Don, when you are in one, stop digging.

 

The Holte End has no road behind it, it has a car park- fact, you were wrong.

 

As the photo shows, it could have come back further, it didn’t ( Cost, sightlines)

 

I am particulalrly enjoying your producing a photo to prove yourself wrong!;)

 

I was right when I said the trinity road had been bridged to allow a wing section on the Holte end. The photo you are using shows an undeveloped Trinity Road.

 

Next:P

[Code]

Follow the link for an updated map photo.

 

https://maps.google.no/maps?q=Aston+Villa+Football+Club,+Trinity+Road,+Birmingham,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=52.509052,-1.884778&spn=0.002521,0.007596&sll=58.936214,5.83447&sspn=2.188257,7.77832&oq=villa+park&t=h&hq=Aston+Villa+Football+Club,+Trinity+Road,+Birmingham,+United+Kingdom&z=17

[Guest San Don]

First rule of holes San Don, when you are in one, stop digging.

 

The Holte End has no road behind it, it has a car park- fact, you were wrong.

 

As the photo shows, it could have come back further, it didn’t ( Cost, sightlines)

 

I am particulalrly enjoying your producing a photo to prove yourself wrong!;)

 

I was right when I said the trinity road had been bridged to allow a wing section on the Holte end. The photo you are using shows an undeveloped Trinity Road.

 

Next:P

 

Its a shame you dont take your own advice. As I said, the stand has a small car park and roads behind it forming the triangle. But never mind eh?

 

Yes, I was aware the photo I posted didnt show the main stand wing over the road and it taken prior to that being done. Hardly surprising since the main point was the Holte End development. In fact the picture proves the holte end is pretty much the same structure it was before they put the extra tier on it (as shown and present in that photo if you look closely.

 

So, sorry to piss on yer chips. Again.

 

However, the object of the picture was to shown the witton lane being re routed from its original line to accommodate that redeveloped stand.

[Code]

Are you ever right about anything Glenn?

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

First rule of holes San Don, when you are in one, stop digging.

 

The Holte End has no road behind it, it has a car park- fact, you were wrong.

 

As the photo shows, it could have come back further, it didn’t ( Cost, sightlines)

 

I am particulalrly enjoying your producing a photo to prove yourself wrong!;)

 

I was right when I said the trinity road had been bridged to allow a wing section on the Holte end. The photo you are using shows an undeveloped Trinity Road.

 

Next:P

 

[RoyHodgeGone]

Would it be possible to add any seats to the Centenary? I'm surprised it's only 11k. The most obvious solution to me would be to try and add maybe 4k on the centenary, 4k on Anfield Road and 8k on the Main Stand. Feasible?

[dennis tooth]

Xerxes is deffo up there with the top spaz legends, total retard constantly being ripped to shreds, he dont give a fuck he'll just uproot his goalposts and ignore your inconvenient truths, he will continue with his fantasy AND THERES NOT A FUCKING THING YOU, OR I CAN DO ABOUT IT.

'Listen, and understand. That xerminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are IN A NEW STADIUM'.

[redasever]

 

 

As you know I... know a modest amount about construction, development and football stadia.