London looking like Mogadishu...

[TheResonator]

Anyway this all boils down to the Cuts and the Tories in my opinion.

 

There's just no work, you ask white people "can you get a job?" and they'll reply "No foreigners and black people get them all" and you ask black people and they'll say "Employers are racist, they only give work to white people"

 

Whether they be black or white, a decent person just gets on with it. A cunt will go out and commit crime and like has been seen this weekend; riot.

 

The problem with your argument is that you are looking at it on an individual level. If all you want is to have a job for yourself and money for your own family, and you have the willpower and personal resources to achieve that, it is infinitely more reachable than succeeding in changing your community, your local society.

 

Nonetheless, someone who is borne into a middle-class family in an relatively affluent area - with middle-of-the road ambition and middle-of-the-road intelligence - will probably be able to go to university and work their way up to a decent office job within a few years of leaving.

 

Someone born into a poor area with cyclical and systemic problems with the same middling intellect and desire for personal gain will - there is every chance - find themselves living a life of crime and destitution.

 

That paradigm might be sustainable in times when the economy is good and the elected government offers enough carrots to the citizens on the lower end of its economic scale, but in a time of recession, dwindling global resources, and a political stance which only serves to worsen already poor communities, it becomes utterly intolerable. And there is every justification for those who suffer simply for their circumstances of birth to resist it by whatever means they can.

[Wor Horse]

Looting T-Mobile, Curries and PC World after petrol bombing a Bus in Peckham.

 

Absolutely no justification for it. They're just cunts.

[Wor Horse]

Wor, I honestly think you're angry at a symptom but are ignoring the real cause of the illness.

 

To improve a situation you have to first understand what causes the problem. People act in certain ways for reasons and "being a cunt" isn't a reason.

 

There's going to ba a lot more of this in the next few years and I'd imagine it'll be from much more than just the "Underclass". I think there's cellotape holding society together at the moment, and as the economy continues to tank it will be placed under more and more pressure. And in the longer term, through the course of my life, I think we're going to see what happens when a society that has been led down a path of individualism and survival of the fittest loses it's place at the top table, and therefore its people start to feel it. It could get brutal.

 

Edit - Just seen your post, I'm wrong to say you're ignoring it after you talked about jobs.

 

The problem with your argument is that you are looking at it on an individual level. If all you want is to have a job for yourself and money for your own family, and you have the willpower and personal resources to achieve that, it is infinitely more reachable than succeeding in changing your community, your local society.

 

Nonetheless, someone who is borne into a middle-class family in an relatively affluent area - with middle-of-the road ambition and middle-of-the-road intelligence - will probably be able to go to university and work their way up to a decent office job within a few years of leaving.

 

Someone born into a poor area with cyclical and systemic problems with the same middling intellect and desire for personal gain will - there is every chance - find themselves living a life of crime and destitution.

 

That paradigm might be sustainable in times when the economy is good and the elected government offers enough carrots to the citizens on the lower end of its economic scale, but in a time of recession, dwindling global resources, and a political stance which only serve to worsen already poor communities, it becomes utterly intolerable. And there is every justification for those who suffer simply for their circumstances of birth to resist it by whatever means they can.

 

I'll wait for your opinion on the matter then when the scallies where you live start destroying your local area.

[Pony Princess]

Looting T-Mobile, Curries and PC World after petrol bombing a Bus in Peckham.

 

Absolutely no justification for it. They're just cunts.

 

Bit harsh mate, I'm sure they are stealing the laptops and blackberrys to knock up CV's and chase up a few job opportunities tomorrow. Once they're off the dole they'll probably give them back.

[Stu Monty]

I'll wait for your opinion on the matter then when the scallies where you live start destroying your local area.

 

I live two minutes from Moss Side and Wythenshaw.

 

If they burnt down my house it wouldn't change the facts. It might make me angry and muddy my thoughts and objectivity on the issue though.

[Wor Horse]

Obviously this is going to be rawer for me than most people until it happens to them so I'll refrain from commenting on the reasoning behind the rioting until it's over.

 

When I see pictures on the news and go into town for shopping today to be met by police in riot gear and see an 80 year old man who's owned a Pet Shop for 60 years in tears because his business and life is over after getting looted last night the first thought on my mind is not going to be 'we should sympathise with the people doing it'

 

The only thing I can see at the moment is lawless and mindless destruction and in my mind there's absolutely no justification for what's happening. I'll leave it at that.

[PestiRed]

I'm stuck in a vicious circle. I don't have a blackberry so I can't find out where to go to loot a blackberry.

[Anubis]

I'm stuck in a vicious circle. I don't have a blackberry so I can't find out where to go to loot a blackberry.

 

First you loot a Blackberry, and then you can move on to finding out where to loot the good stuff. But apparently Oxford Circus is on for 9.30pm tonight. Although I reckon Oxford Circus is simply a codename for the Bluewater shopping centre.

[Stu Monty]

Obviously this is going to be rawer for me than most people until it happens to them so I'll refrain from commenting on the reasoning behind the rioting until it's over.

 

When I see pictures on the news and go into town for shopping today to be met by police in riot gear and see an 80 year old man who's owned a Pet Shop for 60 years in tears because his business and life is over after getting looted last night the first thought on my mind is not going to be 'we should sympathise with the people doing it'

 

The only thing I can see at the moment is lawless and mindless destruction and in my mind there's absolutely no justification for what's happening. I'll leave it at that.

 

Just to clarify, I'm not actually laying it on thick that we should sympathise with the people creating carnage, I'm just more interested in sorting root causes than shooting people in the head with rubber bullets.

 

Understanding why and excusing it are two very different things.

[Redder Lurtz]

It's going to kick right off tonight.

 

We need some rain, that'll put a stop to it. The longer we have warm dry evenings the more tempted these mongs will be to stand around setting light to shit. We'll see how strong the political motives of this bunch of retards are when they have to get wet to go and steal a telly from Currys.

[Anubis]

It's going to kick right off tonight.

 

We need some rain, that'll put a stop to it. The longer we have warm dry evenings the more tempted these mongs will be to stand around setting light to shit. We'll see how strong the political motives of this bunch of retards are when they have to get wet to go and steal a telly from Currys.

 

They're ready for it. They've got hoods.

[TheHitman]

Reply for worhorse, i seem to have messed up the quoting shit.

 

It makes me laugh the way people think this is all new, the people that have done the looting haven't just sat in bed yesterday morning and thought to themselves "I'm going to try crime today"

 

They've been doing what they did yesterday on a smaller scale all their lives, they'll rob shops in broad day light, mug people with knives, rob old ladies of their pensions, it's fucking despicable.

 

The first paragraph is the ultimate in hysteria, be interesting to see how many of the fourteen year old kids that have/will be arrested and have form for armed robbery, aggravated street robbery and the other heinous crime you mention.

 

It's half and half though, the people who are doing it can't be changed, their fathers did it and their kids will do it, it's just the norm for them. It's also the government and police's fault for just leaving them to it with the only time them seeing anyone in a uniform is when they're getting stopped for no reason. But then again, they probably are getting stopped for a reason because of what they've done in the past and the way they conduct themselves.

 

 

I am unsure how you have determined that these people cannot be changed, their father, their unborn children. Is it by analysis of data or just watching how Rodney and his pops rolls round the block. Oh I forget you live around the block so it makes you an expert.

 

Maybe they have found some genetic gene, enlighten us! I agree there are a lot of young men who are hostile to the police, is it only people of colour who have this animosity?. Certainly not, you go round Huyton, Norris Green and you will see the same animosity towards the police an the famous chip on the shoulder. I agree about community policing as a good deterrent, in helping build good relationships in communities.

 

 

It's all complete bullshit though on both sides, you don't get stopped just because you're black. I've got black friends who live in London that have never been stopped. Because they're hardworking family people who went to school every day and now work every day. They also don't dress like stupid fucking idiots with hoods on, masks over their faces and their pants down their arse, that's why you get stopped, not because of the colour of your skin

You certainly do not get stopped for wearing baggy jeans and a hoodie, you get stopped for behaving in a suspicious manner. Rightly so, as well.

 

Far too many people living in these areas have the mindset that everyone hates them and they won't get a job because they're black. It's the oldest line in the book and it's probably offensive but it's true; some of them just have chips on their shoulders. There's no other way to describe it.

 

This has got nothing to do with the fella who got shot on Thursday and everything to do with subhuman scum who have no respect for the country, it's establishment or it's residents seeing an opportunity to earn a quick buck or get a free ride. The same people who claim poverty are the same people driving brand new BMWs while using a Blackberry dressed in all the newest gear.

I would say it is as much a class thing as a black thing, there are just proportionally more kids who are of colour that are poor. I somehow doubt the guys driving round in brand new bmws are doing the looting. I do agree there are many who are just looting who are opportunists, but what sort of society have we created that plays such a role.

Does my fucking head in

[Sut]

Don't know if it's been posted before but the Guardian has some before and after pictures.

[Pony Princess]

I know I take the piss a fair bit - but seriously, don't most countries when things like this happen get the TA on it? Does the TA even exist anymore?

[Guest davelfc]

I know I take the piss a fair bit - but seriously, don't most countries when things like this happen get the TA on it? Does the TA even exist anymore?

 

They only work weekends, badoom tish!

 

 

And once a fuckin gain.... They won't bring in the Army, nor the TA nor the Salvation Army.

 

OK?

[Wor Horse]

Just to clarify, I'm not actually laying it on thick that we should sympathise with the people creating carnage, I'm just more interested in sorting root causes than shooting people in the head with rubber bullets.

 

Understanding why and excusing it are two very different things.

 

Yeah I agree, in the long term though.

 

I'm all for doing what ever it takes for them to stop now and then sort it out later. The way I read your posts made me think you wanted to understand why they did it first and foremost before stopping them.

 

On Sky News they've just shown cars in residential streets getting torched. So it's moved on from franchises and shops. This is going to grow and grow unless it gets stopped now.

[Sut]

I know I take the piss a fair bit - but seriously, don't most countries when things like this happen get the TA on it? Does the TA even exist anymore?

 

They're in Afghanistan.

[Pony Princess]

They only work weekends, badoom tish!

 

 

And once a fuckin gain.... They won't bring in the Army, nor the TA nor the Salvation Army.

 

OK?

 

Even if the poor little urchins get hungry? Chicken soup for the angsty teenage soul.

[PestiRed]

I know I take the piss a fair bit - but seriously, don't most countries when things like this happen get the TA on it? Does the TA even exist anymore?

 

Using professional soldiers is overkill. Using weekend wannabe's would be over killing

[Guest davelfc]

Even if the poor little urchins get hungry? Chicken soup for the angsty teenage soul.

 

Well, ok maybe then.

[Paulie Dangerously]

BBC news implicating Blackberry Messenger in the proceedings. BAN MOBILE PHONES

[Anubis]

Even if the poor little urchins get hungry? Chicken soup for the angsty teenage soul.

 

The Salvation Army charge for their services to the poor. Capitalist fuckers. Firebomb them.

[TheResonator]

I'll wait for your opinion on the matter then when the scallies where you live start destroying your local area.

 

I'm not from a wealthy family, but I would certainly say I've had a fairly privileged upbringing, and judging from the fact that Stu is clearly a well-educated guy I would say (without knowing him) that there's every chance the same is also true for him. So, another way of looking at it would be to ask why we are sympathetic towards people who are attacking a system which effectively supports our interests?

 

For the record, I sympathise with your situation at the moment, and I appreciate that being at the heart of it gives it a different shade. Nonetheless, as easy as it is to vilify people who destroy the things close to you, it rarely paints an accurate picture of the histories which lead them to that destruction. It doesn't have to change the way you feel or absolve the actions of the perpetrators but I think that the underlying questions should be confronted rather than ignored.

[PestiRed]

BBC news implicating Blackberry Messenger in the proceedings. BAN MOBILE PHONES

 

RIM have issued an apology for their technology being used in criminality. Their corporate nightmare is the brand becoming synonymous with drug dealing scum & suffering the same fate as Burberry. Apple must be rubbing their hands together at the thought of coming business sales

[Anubis]

The Met counter-terrorist unit have issued a revised request for information.

 

 

Any information relating to anarchists, black youths, white youths, people in hoodies, hasidic jews, and polar bears should be reported to the local police. Anarchism, black youths, white youths, people in hoodies, hasidic jews, and polar bears are political philosophies which consider the state undesirable, unnecessary and harmful.