Summer 2011

[vikramhans]

Did you really just use this as an argument?

 

Good lord.

 

This might come as a surprise for you but 60% did not think he was player of the season.

 

 

i found out another really interesting stat the other day.....

 

100% of people on this forum think code is boring as fuck and actually doesn't have any thing constructive or positive to say here.....

 

read into that what you will.

 

ta

[Unrighteous]

i found out another really interesting stat the other day.....

 

100% of people on this forum think code is boring as fuck and actually doesn't have any thing constructive or positive to add here.....

 

read into that what you will.

 

ta

 

That's some top class lurking, turning into a dynamite drop-in!

[vikramhans]

That's some top class lurking, turning into a dynamite drop-in!

 

a'thankyou

[Jairzinho]

I have forgot more about football than you and the next three generations in your family will ever know.

 

But possibly not more than all the managers that keep picking Lucas.

[Gym Beglin]

One day, one day, people will look back on Lucas and say "what the fuck were we thinking?".

 

He's not a bad player, far from it, but I can't find a position for him in a team of 11 players trying to win trophies against the likes of United and Barcelona.

 

But it's not like people are suddenly going to turn on him and say he's shit, he gives 100% therefore he evades criticism when we fail to win.

People will only see how limited he is once he is replaced by someone better, and that's when you'll feel like eejits.

 

At the moment, only Spearing can take on that role, possibly Meireles. But it's unlikely either will still be here come 1st September judging by the rumours, which further cements Lucas as a starter.

 

I acknowledge the tachometer role, the disruptor and the controller. Didi was sublime at it, Alonso less so (IMHO) but still very effective, Mascherano was ferocious but not intelligent enough to sustain it on his own.

Lucas isn't in the same class as these players, it's about time we bit the bullet on this one and fessed up.

[Il Fenomeno]

How do you suppose that I, a relatively anonymous poster on a message board, can cause you to change your opinion? How, if you -- watching (presumably) most Liverpool matches in a season -- cannot see the difference in the team when we play with Lucas and when we don't play with Lucas; if you do not question your own judgement despite a succession of managers all preferring him as first choice holding midfielder, and the current manager, whose successes I do not need to list, not deeming him worthy of replacement; if you have totally disregarded any merit to the opinions of the 40-odd-percent of people who voted him player of the season last year - how do you think I can enlighten you? Why should I waste my time trying?

 

The fact is that you're a fucking idiot, everybody can see it. You are incapable of ever changing your position on anything. I think you were born as part of the wrong generation because your true calling would probably have been dictating trench warfare in World War One, playing the role of an officer tucked away in some bunker mindlessly sending legions of troops to their doom. Some people look to argument as a tool for discovering what's right and attempting to advance their opinions by considering the merits and weaknesses of alternative positions, and you simply look at it as a method of arguing the infallibility of your initial position, irrespective of whether or not it is built on sound methodology or reasonable foundation. Anything you engaged in requiring any analysis or strategy would lead to your utter failure because you are, quite simply, the kind of cretin who cannot help but continually highlight their own stupidity any more than you can resist the desire to breathe.

 

Excellent read as usual.. I hope you don't leave the forum because of this fiasco, we've already seen great posters leave in their droves just because they were tired of reading Code's constant rubbish in every thread. This forum will be out of business soon if Code carries on with his antics.

[lebron]

And blind devotion to limited players is going to keep us in this 21 year rut.

It's not a case of Lucas being effective in front of our back four, it's a case of our back four constantly needing protection because our CB's cannot compete with even a moderately quick attacker.

 

Put a couple of decent centre backs in the team and then tell me that Lucas is indispensible.

 

He's so limited, and saying he's a full Brazil international isn't exactly much of a compliment at the moment, if you haven't noticed.

 

Two sides to that story. While I obviously agree that our CBs need upgrading, there are sides in football history that have had good CBs and still needed a Lucas-type player. Depends on what role(s) your full-backs are supposed to fill (among other things)

[ODZ]

Why do people assume Kenny considers Lucas a first team regular? Because he's played in the first team ahead of Christian Poulsen last season? Or is it because he's signed two central midfielders in the summer? I'm confused.

[Unrighteous]

Why do people assume Kenny considers Lucas a first team regular? Because he's played in the first team ahead of Christian Poulsen last season? Or is it because he's signed two central midfielders in the summer? I'm confused.

 

His industry and defensive responsibility, is why I think that he'll be a starting player in a midfield three.

 

Lucas, Spearing, Gerrard, Henderson, Adam, and Meireles. That's the deepest CM in the league, no?

[ODZ]

His industry and defensive responsibility, is why I think that he'll be a starting player in a midfield three.

 

Lucas, Spearing, Gerrard, Henderson, Adam, and Meireles. That's the deepest CM in the league, no?

 

Why are you assuming we're going to play a midfield three? Why do people automatically think we're going to play 4-3-3?

 

Everything Kenny has done this summer suggests he's angling towards playing 4-4-2, which means a specialist defensive midfielder is much harder to accommodate.

 

Suarez and Carroll force us into a 4-4-2. We are not going to play Suarez wide, pseudo-wide, or any of that sort. He is a striker with extraordinary playmaking skills, and he's our best player, we are not going to play him out of position to accommodate a third central midfielder IMO.

[satansmutt]

I've always thought Lucas played his best games in the big games against the big teams when he closes down the midfield. Lucas and Spearing played well against the likes of Chelsea and Man U but when we are at home against shite like Everton he lacks the creativity that we need to open them up and the more of the ball he has the worse he looks.

[ODZ]

I've always thought Lucas played his best games in the big games against the big teams when he closes down the midfield. Lucas and Spearing played well against the likes of Chelsea and Man U but when we are at home against shite like Everton he lacks the creativity that we need to open them up and the more of the ball he has the worse he looks.

 

Lucas looks best when he doesn't have the ball. This sums him up perfectly.

[Pidge]

Why are you assuming we're going to play a midfield three?

 

Everything Kenny has done this summer suggests he's angling towards playing 4-4-2, which means a specialist defensive midfielder is much harder to accommodate.

 

Buying more central midfielders.

Vs Guandong - Shelvey, Jay and Poulsen (Coady, Aquilani and Adam)

Vs Malaysia - Adam, Coady and Jay (Poulsen, Shelvey and Aquilani)

Vs Hull - Aquilani, Poulsen and Coady (Jay, Jordan and Adam)

 

I hope someone tells Kenny about this 4-4-2 plan soon.

[Sugar Ape]

Lucas looks best when he doesn't have the ball. This sums him up perfectly.

 

All green to all red.

 

Code, you had the barefaced cheek to accuse other people of having an agenda and being a halfwit on the MF yesterday. Unfuckingbelievable. You know shit about football, and the only person who can't see it is you.

[MLB]

Code is the new Rashid.

[ODZ]

Buying more central midfielders.

Vs Guandong - Shelvey, Jay and Poulsen (Coady, Aquilani and Adam)

Vs Malaysia - Adam, Coady and Jay (Poulsen, Shelvey and Aquilani)

Vs Hull - Aquilani, Poulsen and Coady (Jay, Jordan and Adam)

 

I hope someone tells Kenny about this 4-4-2 plan soon.

 

Formations in pre-season mean nothing, it's all about fitness and Kenny has said it himself. We're loaded with central midfielders and we want to get rid of a few of them, while we're very light in strikers. Kenny's picked a "formation" to fit the personnel currently at the club.

 

But the bottom line is this: Suarez, our best player, is not going to play wide in our team. There's not a chance of it happening. Kenny has never put him out wide and I believe he has no intention of doing so.

[zigackly]

Excellent read as usual.. I hope you don't leave the forum because of this fiasco, we've already seen great posters leave in their droves just because they were tired of reading Code's constant rubbish in every thread.

 

Serious advice now. If you or anyone else doesn't like what another poster is posting, just ignore it. It really is that simple. If you don't like what anyone is posting, then you have a problem of course.

[zigackly]

Why are you assuming we're going to play a midfield three? Why do people automatically think we're going to play 4-3-3?

 

Everything Kenny has done this summer suggests he's angling towards playing 4-4-2, which means a specialist defensive midfielder is much harder to accommodate.

 

Suarez and Carroll force us into a 4-4-2. We are not going to play Suarez wide, pseudo-wide, or any of that sort. He is a striker with extraordinary playmaking skills, and he's our best player, we are not going to play him out of position to accommodate a third central midfielder IMO.

 

Little bit naive talking 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. If you recall the 88 team it was more like 4-3-3 in attack and 4-4-2 in defence, although Beardsley used to drop deep so even that description is a bit simplistic. The players Kenny has bought support the theory that he's looking for something similar again, with Henderson tucking in on the right, Downing pushing forward on the left, and Suarez roaming behind Carroll. I would be surprised if that's not the default way we play next season, although Kenny can be tactically fluid also.

[ODZ]

Little bit naive talking 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. If you recall the 88 team it was more like 4-3-3 in attack and 4-4-2 in defence, although Beardsley used to drop deep so even that description is a bit simplistic. The players Kenny has bought support the theory that he's looking for something similar again, with Henderson tucking in on the right, Downing pushing forward on the left, and Suarez roaming behind Carroll. I would be surprised if that's not the default way we play next season, although Kenny can be tactically fluid also.

 

I agree with that completely and that brings me to Lucas. If this is Kenny's intention, and I believe that it is, this is the team:

 

Henderson Gerrard Adam Downing

Suarez Carroll

 

Mirroring this one:

 

Houghton McMahon Whelan Barnes

Beardsley Aldridge

 

Where is Lucas then? He'll obviously get plenty of games, but he's not going to be one of the first names in the team sheet like many expect.

[zigackly]

I think Lucas can play the Whelan role; he used to be more progressive in Brazil. Who forms our first choices in those central spots is obviously slightly moot at this point, but it's good to have strong backup whoever that turns out to be.

[Pidge]

Formations in pre-season mean nothing, it's all about fitness and Kenny has said it himself. We're loaded with central midfielders and we want to get rid of a few of them, while we're very light in strikers. Kenny's picked a "formation" to fit the personnel currently at the club.

 

But the bottom line is this: Suarez, our best player, is not going to play wide in our team. There's not a chance of it happening. Kenny has never put him out wide and I believe he has no intention of doing so.

 

Suarez, Kuyt and Carroll played in front of Spearing, Lucas and Raul against City last year. One of our best performances. I think your bottom line just belies an inflexible vision of a flexible system. Suarez will roam wherever he plays. Kuyt will work back. Downing will roam wide and Stevie will find himself in the box. That's about using the right players and the right style of play. Three midfielders provides a stronger base for the use of a fluid attacking unit.

[zigackly]

Not convinced personally how often Kuyt will start, but I could be completely wrong there. I certainly don't see him tucked in on the right of a three, but he is probably backup for three positions, being Downing, Suarez or Carroll. I don't believe we will line up in a traditional 4-3-3 very often at all.

 

One thing about next season we can all agree on though is it's going to be interesting seeing what the canny Scot has in mind.

[ODZ]

Suarez, Kuyt and Carroll played in front of Spearing, Lucas and Raul against City last year. One of our best performances. I think your bottom line just belies an inflexible vision of a flexible system. Suarez will roam wherever he plays. Kuyt will work back. Downing will roam wide and Stevie will find himself in the box. That's about using the right players and the right style of play. Three midfielders provides a stronger base for the use of a fluid attacking unit.

 

Not true, Meireles played on the left, Kuyt was on the right and Suarez played up front. I know that because I watched that game today.

 

There's a huge difference between playing up front and roaming wherever you want and playing out wide in a 4-3-3 and having the responsibility of closing down your flank. Playing Suarez in that role would limit him offensively.

[Pidge]

Not true, Meireles played on the left, Kuyt was on the right and Suarez played up front. I know that because I watched that game today.

 

There's a huge difference between playing up front and roaming wherever you want and playing out wide in a 4-3-3 and having the responsibility of closing down your flank. Playing Suarez in that role would limit him offensively.

 

What I have been saying is that playing as one of wider two in a forward three doesn't necessarily carry that responsibility. Nor does it mean he has to be holding a position on the touchline. I'd imagine Suarez will play as a roaming inside forward while Carroll will be playing as the target man and the other forward (Downing, Kuyt... whoever) will carry the duty to drop deeper to, as Zig said put another body in the middle during the defensive phase.

 

The base for that kind of flexible system would be three midfielders in my view. The use of three midfielders creates passing options, provides defensive cover and allows full backs to push on. Lucas is central to this plan as his understanding of where he's needed has been central to most of our great performances over the last couple of years.

 

I don't see how playing Suarez negates the fact that Kenny has largely stuck to three central midfielders and when we were forced to revert to two... we lost to Spurs. I'm not saying we'll always play like that, but I don't see anything that indicates Kenny is going to start the season with 4-4-2.

[silverlining]

One day, one day, people will look back on Lucas and say "what the fuck were we thinking?".

 

He's not a bad player, far from it, but I can't find a position for him in a team of 11 players trying to win trophies against the likes of United and Barcelona.

 

But it's not like people are suddenly going to turn on him and say he's shit, he gives 100% therefore he evades criticism when we fail to win.

People will only see how limited he is once he is replaced by someone better, and that's when you'll feel like eejits.

 

At the moment, only Spearing can take on that role, possibly Meireles. But it's unlikely either will still be here come 1st September judging by the rumours, which further cements Lucas as a starter.

 

I acknowledge the tachometer role, the disruptor and the controller. Didi was sublime at it, Alonso less so (IMHO) but still very effective, Mascherano was ferocious but not intelligent enough to sustain it on his own.

Lucas isn't in the same class as these players, it's about time we bit the bullet on this one and fessed up.

 

*applause*