Driving - Again.

[melons]

Right i got in to a scrape today when a woman pulling out on me (you can all loose that smile right about now) anyway, she crossed one road to the central area (where people normally wait until its clear to process on the the road going south) She didn't she kept on going we collided side, my front driver side wing, her passenger wing mirror and door getting it. I was pushing on the horn, breaking and pulling in to mount the kerb to avoid colliding, she didn't even seem to notice and carried on pulling over to join the carriageway i was on thus hitting my car IMO.

 

I've done a little mappy thing to show my point, her mum seemed to think it was my fault?

 

bumpety bump - Google Maps

[RobbieOR]

Women drivers are the worst. Fact!

[Moo]

In this current age of terrible driving, where people going 40mph on a main road inexplicably slow down rapidly to 'courteously' let people out of side streets, you could possibly have some blame attached.

[melons]

In this current age of terrible driving, where people going 40mph on a main road inexplicably slow down rapidly to 'courteously' let people out of side streets, you could possibly have some blame attached.

 

 

ha she used that one, could you not see me i thought you were letting me out!

 

I dont fucking think so, i live here lady jane, if i let you out i'm stuck behind you for the next hour of you doing 40 in a 60 zone.

 

 

Edit, robbie, owed a neg. Fact.

[RoboRiise]

If I've read the map correctly and you were on the A470 heading south with her pulling out of the A493 and joining the carriageway in the same direction that you were travelling, then unless you slowed down or flashed her out (so to speak) I'd say it was her fault.

 

Even if you did slow down, it's for her to judge whether it's safe to pull out, although you might have 10% of the blame attached to you in those circumstances for putting the idea in her head in the first place. (I see Moo agrees with this.)

 

 

In this current age of terrible driving, where people going 40mph on a main road inexplicably slow down rapidly to 'courteously' let people out of side streets, you could possibly have some blame attached.

 

A couple of weeks ago, I nearly went into the back of some daft bastard because of that. Approaching a set of traffic lights on a main road (on red) with a side road on the left about twenty yards before them - there was nothing waiting at the lights and one car on the side road waiting to turn left heading towards the same traffic lights. As far as I know, usual behaviour would be for me and the car in front of me to drive up to the lights, the car in the side road can then pull out behind us and we can all queue at the lights without blocking the entrance to the road the car pulled out of.

 

Oh no, Mr fucking Courteous in front of me decided to brake (practically an emergency stop) to let the bloke in the side street out. The guy in the side street hadn't moved or anything, in fact he was clearly as surprised as me at this unexpected courtesy. I noticed this in passing as I simultaneously stood on my brakes, hit the horn and screamed obscenities.

 

I'm all for a more polite society but you can take things too far.

 

 

(Edit: In view of your second comment melons, fuck that bitch - it's her fault and she needs to learn to judge speed and distance.)

[odris]

It's her fault.

[CaptainK]

As far as the insurance are concerned, and that's the important bit, the other driver is at fault. You were on the main carriageway and the accident happened moments after she joined the carriageway that you were already on.

 

Snce the other driver was joining the carriageway, the onus is on her to ensure that she is making a safe manouver.

 

Her fault all day, every day.

 

Once the insurance confirm this, point it out to your mum, as proof that it wasn't your fault.

[Magellan06]

ha she used that one, could you not see me i thought you were letting me out!

 

I dont fucking think so, i live here lady jane, if i let you out i'm stuck behind you for the next hour of you doing 40 in a 60 zone.

 

 

Edit, robbie, owed a neg. Fact.

 

Waving or 'flashing' someone out is an offence in its self, it's called 'beckoning and inducement' if it causes an accident you are both at fault. In this case, it looks to me to be her fault, as someone else said it's for her to judge whether it's safe to pull out, and she got it wrong imo as an ex driving instuctor.

[melons]

Cheers people,

 

RR, you got the way it happened right,

 

Odris, to the point.

 

captK it was her mum, my mum wouldn't dream of questioning my driving, other then the usual slow down comment and the like.

 

Magellen, i thought to join a carriageway you had to keep up with the speed of traffic or something?

[RoboRiise]

Waving or 'flashing' someone out is an offence in its self, it's called 'beckoning and inducement' if it causes an accident you are both at fault. In this case, it looks to me to be her fault, as someone else said it's for her to judge whether it's safe to pull out, and she got it wrong imo as an ex driving instuctor.

 

 

The sage words of my own driving instructor (which I still remember 11 years on) were what prompted my comments; don't pull out just because someone flashes or waves you out because they aren't responsible for your actions - you are.

[Magellan06]

When joining, you must not cause another road user to slow down or change direction.

[rb14]

I was pushing on the horn, breaking and pulling in to mount the kerb to avoid colliding

Oh please. You've given the game away right there Princess Angel-Knockers.

 

I tell you what right, when I'm breaking hard into Druids at Brands and I outbrake myself, as I'm sliding into the gravel awaiting the impact of the armco, I always find myself impulsively reaching for my horn.

 

If you'd had the time to hit the horn, almost undoubtedly you could have avoided the accident. But before you lay into me, please read on...

 

If you'd been on a motorbike, I would lay very good odds indeed that you'd have anticipated that she might continue across the central reservation. You'd have anticipated it because if you didn't, you'd probably die.

 

Tell me this: Did you hit her before you had time to react? At what point in the course of events did you hit the horn and for how long? Were you brakes locked up (or if your car's fitted with ABS, had that system kicked in?)? How high "up the kerb" did you go to avoid hitting her?

 

You made the presumption that she would stop and indeed had every right to do so. Moreover she had no right to pull across into your carriageway and ultimately your lane. The insurance company will almost ("almost" because you just never know with those lot) undoubtedly back you up as indeed they should.

 

Was it, as her mother said, "your fault"? No way.

 

Is there anything you could have done to prevent the accident happening? That's for you to answer.

 

The reality of this situation is always murkier than the brief report. You saw her pull out of the A493. You thought she would stop in the central refuge. She didn't. As she continued, you probably thought she'd realise her error and stay right of your lane, perhaps continuing along the hatched area. She didn't. I say again, she had no right to do what she did. But that's not to say the accident was inevitable. Was she at fault? Yes. Is that the whole story? I'm not convinced.

[melons]

Oh please. You've given the game away right there Princess Angel-Knockers.

 

I tell you what right, when I'm breaking hard into Druids at Brands and I outbrake myself, as I'm sliding into the gravel awaiting the impact of the armco, I always find myself impulsively reaching for my horn.

 

If you'd had the time to hit the horn, almost undoubtedly you could have avoided the accident. But before you lay into me, please read on...

 

If you'd been on a motorbike, I would lay very good odds indeed that you'd have anticipated that she might continue across the central reservation. You'd have anticipated it because if you didn't, you'd probably die.

 

Tell me this: Did you hit her before you had time to react? At what point in the course of events did you hit the horn and for how long? Were you brakes locked up (or if your car's fitted with ABS, had that system kicked in?)? How high "up the kerb" did you go to avoid hitting her?

 

You made the presumption that she would stop and indeed had every right to do so. Moreover she had no right to pull across into your carriageway and ultimately your lane. The insurance company will almost ("almost" because you just never know with those lot) undoubtedly back you up as indeed they should.

 

Was it, as her mother said, "your fault"? No way.

 

Is there anything you could have done to prevent the accident happening? That's for you to answer.

 

The reality of this situation is always murkier than the brief report. You saw her pull out of the A493. You thought she would stop in the central refuge. She didn't. As she continued, you probably thought she'd realise her error and stay right of your lane, perhaps continuing along the hatched area. She didn't. I say again, she had no right to do what she did. But that's not to say the accident was inevitable. Was she at fault? Yes. Is that the whole story? I'm not convinced.

 

I do see your point,

 

I hit her as i was reacting to the accident, or rather she hit me as i was pulling in to mount the kerb/grass verge to avoid her, the horn was the very last thing as i was turning in realising that with my own actions impact would be inevitable, she would have to react i was still too fast at present to mount the kerb without fear of toppling over. i dont drive an average little car, i drive a kia sedona. Top heavy, hitting a kerb in one of these at the wrong angle and speed i fear will quite easily have me rolling? well i have always assumed it would, It doesn't have the manoeuvrability of a regular car let alone a bike. Breaks were full on, (ABS shudders?) no i don't think it has ABS. I didn't expect her to continue pulling out, and no, as she would of crossed the road she wouldnt of been going at a speed i would of anticipated her to continue to even think she could of pulled out in front of me and not collided given the speed i was travelling at. The national speed limit.

 

 

The road is not quite a single carriageway, as you say the hatched area, indeed my assumption was never that she would of crossed over the central area, and when she did, it was then that she would of been remaining in the white boxed off area to pick up speed (this is a width of a narrow carriage way) My speed did not slow until i realised she was actually going to come out of the central area, and just in case i better hit the breaks. Should my speed of slowed? Hers being a small car, she wouldn't of had an issue with correcting her positioning on the road and staying on the hatched area and in theory, both cars could of been parallel and the road wide enough to fit us both. The collision was on the main road and parallel wing to wing, or rather my wing to her whole car. I really think she thought she was being let out, or just didnt see me, both of which the mind boggles.

 

Accidents happen, i get that. I'm also not pissed about the car or the damage, it can be fixed. I just dont fancy my insurance premiums going up when they are renewed while they argue out liability.

 

 

If i was on a bike, i could (possibly) of gone around her on to the white lines of the road, i know breaking wouldn't of got me out of the way in time, i would of landed the bike on its side and skidded to a stop. No doubt killing the bike and probably leaving me with a couple of broken limbs, but hey, not bad given the number of bikers who have died at that junction.

[Mendoza]

[Uncle_Meat]

 

If you'd been on a motorbike, I would lay very good odds indeed that you'd have anticipated that she might continue across the central reservation. You'd have anticipated it because if you didn't, you'd probably die.

 

 

 

He's right, y'know.

 

Seriously. I get criticised a bit by friends for my defensive driving sometimes when I'm in the car and, the reason for this is, having done way more miles on 2 wheels than I have on 4 I am constantly on the lookout for potential twats causing situations like this. When approaching a junction like that, if there is a car awaiting to come over, I automatically roll off the throttle a touch, cover my anchors and have a quick look around for an escape route should they show any signs of pulling out into my space.

 

99 times out of 100 there is nowt to fear and you sometimes do feel a bit silly for being over cautious but it's well worth it for that 1 time it does happen.

 

 

No criticism of your driving here by the way Melons, it sounds like you did all you could really, but just backing up rb14 on the mindset that you need to have if you want to stay alive for as long as possible whilst on 2 wheels.

[gumps]

The other drivers fault every time in this case.

 

As has already been said, if you are joining a more major road it is up to you to do so safely and not to disrupt the traffic already travelling along that road.

[dirty_sanchez]

Agree with Meat and RB14, although clearly this incident is the 3rd party's fault as far as the insurance company are concerned.

 

My dad was a police motorcyclist and every time he pulled me and my bike out of a hedge, he used to say to me "That was your fault". His argument was that the accident never would have happened if I had been adequately planning my route and had sufficient awareness of my surroundings.

 

I didn't have the heart to tell him that it was actually my fault because I was trying to carry a wheelie into third gear and got distracted by some girls at the bus stop.

[Newport]

Two women+two cars+same place=recipe for disaster.

[melons]

Insurance stuff started, not my fault, but like i said i appreciate where the motorcyclists are coming from.

 

Courtesy car, like for like, well 7 seater for 7 seater, no bloody tow bar and no roof rack, i am now no longer going camping this weekend. Now i am quite pissed off about it all.

[BRANDS]

she has a duty of care to you as you are established on the main road - you can do what you want ,she has breached the duty of care by failing to ensure she joins the road without causing a collision - if her insurers deny liability their shit!

 

Pull out the holiday brochures pick a holiday and get down the gp for a diagnosis of a soft tissue injury to the neck! If he diagnoses whiplash tell him hes talking shite as whiplash is the mechanism of the injury not an actual medical injury!

[melons]

she has a duty of care to you as you are established on the main road - you can do what you want ,she has breached the duty of care by failing to ensure she joins the road without causing a collision - if her insurers deny liability their shit!

 

Pull out the holiday brochures pick a holiday and get down the gp for a diagnosis of a soft tissue injury to the neck! If he diagnoses whiplash tell him hes talking shite as whiplash is the mechanism of the injury not an actual medical injury!

 

 

haha, i have a corker of a bruise on my thigh and the gp is rather young and fit, might be an excuse to make him squirm.

 

 

Oh and the insurance claim for my nan's house still isn't sorted. Its only been what, 6 months now.

[Hand Shandy]

[melons]

Thorpey, that bint would of been parking.

 

I rule hard at parking.

[BRANDS]

haha, i have a corker of a bruise on my thigh and the gp is rather young and fit, might be an excuse to make him squirm.

 

 

Oh and the insurance claim for my nan's house still isn't sorted. Its only been what, 6 months now.

 

Your name will blacklisted by Insurers! If you want any help with the claim let me know - Motor is my speciality! Ill even value your injury claim!

Edited June 29, 2009 by BRANDS
...

[Hand Shandy]

Thorpey, that bint would of been parking.

 

I rule hard at parking.

 

What, as long as you can drive into the space and the cars aren't too close together.

 

Oh, and you don't have to reverse either.

 

Or is that just my wife?