A thread about a man named Xabi

[SpeedyG]

Who reps this tool? Controversial.

 

Negged without reading any recent posts.

 

Who am I supposed to be repping?

[Scott_M]

I hope they hug it out like men.

[shanks59]

Well i like Rafa and want Xabi to stay!!

 

So what group am I in?

 

You're in the same group as me, and, the vast majority of supporters .. :whistle:

[Anubis]

[YOUTUBE]jd_viuLxGVQ&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[Red Nick]

The point Rashid is raising is actually more valid than most arguments used on such a forum and how anyone can try and make a fool of him for using it is beyond the pale.

 

Lets take a look at lets say the 5 biggest leagues in Europe the last 30 years, lets agree these 5 leagues are Italy, Spain, England, Germany and France (even if someone could make a strong case for Portugal being a bigger and better league than France).

 

1. How many managers have won the league after being in charge of the same team in the same league for 5 consecutive seasons without winning it in their first 5 seasons?

 

2. How many different managers have won these leagues in the same time frame?

 

After we have done this we can always look at the top 10 as well, if someone thinks they need more data to build their case.

 

Since the point Rashid is making seems so silly I guess loads of people will be on this case in a hurry to prove how silly this argument is by finding all these names.

 

After you have done that we can analyse the circumstances around the different cases to see if we can come up with a conclusion as to why it will be a good idea to give someone more time than 5 years in any job in todays football.

 

Shanks took 4 and half seasons to win it and he started a division lower. however its a very interesting point, the only one I can think of that won it after 5 years is Alex Ferguson

[DonaldDonaldson]

I really can't be arsed with this debate any more, what will be, will be. One thing I wanted to put straight though, after reading Dirk's post, was where I hear little snippets of information from.

 

He may not have been talking about me, but I think it would be easily misinterpreted, hence this explanation.

 

He made the point that people have their views because they receive their information from someone who has an axe to grind with the manager. The person I hear little bits from, has absolutely no issue with Rafa at all. Indeed, he's a Middlesbrough fan and has no connection to the club at all, other than being good friends with a professional footballer.

 

That said professional footballer is absolutely desperate to play for Liverpool, so he has no gripe at all with the manager either, so how these little things I hear could be perceived as coming from a source with alterior motives, frankly doesn't make any sense.

 

As I said, I just wanted to clear that up.

 

EDIT - So next time someone accuses me of being part of the 'Bascombe' clan, they will be making themselves look utterly stupid.

 

Is this the person that is only a phone call away - just like Davy Liver - or is it a different person?

[ToxtethTerror]

Shanks took 4 and half seasons to win it and he started a division lower. however its a very interesting point, the only one I can think of that won it after 5 years is Alex Ferguson

 

In terms of big leagues, he is the only one. Which was my point, an exception to the rule is Ferguson.

[meijer 09]

In terms of big leagues, he is the only one. Which was my point, an exception to the rule is Ferguson.

 

so you would sack rafa?

[Catch22]

In terms of big leagues, he is the only one. Which was my point, an exception to the rule is Ferguson.

 

Which means that more than 50% of the PL ever contested have been won by a manager who had 5 years before he won it.

 

0 managers EVER in PL history have won the PL with a budget as low as our 4th is, no exceptions needed, yet that statistic, which correlates extremely hi thru-out the whole table is almost always ignored on here.

[ToxtethTerror]

so you would sack rafa?

 

I would have yes but these things aren't just done on the league - he has an exceptional record in Europe so deserves more time as he will have earnt it from his European exploits. He now has a 5 year contract so deserves more time whether we like it or not. The point was just to illustrate that Rafa is being given more than enough time to show us what he can do.

 

Back to the thread, this debate only came about when somebody mentioned that Alonso maybe is being replaced because Rafa wants us to be shirt passers like Saachi's Milan - another straw clutch - and I suggested that after 5 years we should have a style of play sorted. In fact we should have been challenging for the league long ago.

 

Right now though I want any player who wants out to just go and let us get on with it.

[ToxtethTerror]

Which means that more than 50% of the PL ever contested have been won by a manager who had 5 years before he won it.

 

0 managers EVER in PL history have won the PL with a budget as low as our 4th is, no exceptions needed, yet that statistic, which correlates extremely hi thru-out the whole table is almost always ignored on here.

 

Ha Ha I see what you did there.... life didn't start with the Premier League though did it?

[hamstrung]

Most clubs (and fans) are impatient bellends.

 

Therefore we should also be impatient bellends.

 

I can dig it.

[goatboy59]

In terms of big leagues, he is the only one. Which was my point, an exception to the rule is Ferguson.

I've quoted this stat myself a number of times.

 

BUT the major title winning clubs cleared a path for Ferguson. By the time he got his act together Souness's Liverpool were woeful, Kendall was on his second disastrous phase with Everton and Graham's Arsenal degenerated into a cup side. Even the champions Leeds handed Man U their best player!

 

Benitez for all his faults is not getting that easy ride, in fact it might be about to get even more difficult. The only compass we have is to be guided by our own star rising or falling. As baffling as it may seem, what with last summer's perfunctory (to put it kindly) transfer business and half a season without Torres we've put another 10 points on the board.

 

Five years is up but we're improving so that overrides everything.

[Brownie]

I never mentioned your name but it seemed at the time that there was people on this very thread, when Xabi spoke to Bascombe, that started posting about it because of what they had heard.

 

You do yourself no favours by being so confrontational, you make yourself look utterly stupid. However, where did the agent get the information from? It's still not objective, it will third or even 4th or 5th hand by the time it filters to him, even less reliable.

 

What is objective in all of this? Quotes in a newspaper?

 

I'm much more inclined to believe something which i've been told by my mate, considering that his mate shares an agent with the captain of our team. I don't see he stands to gain by making stuff up.

 

But anyway, people will believe what they want to believe won't they? It's just human nature.

 

I just wanted to clear things up so that people understood where I heard these things.

[Brownie]

Is this the person that is only a phone call away - just like Davy Liver - or is it a different person?

 

I don't understand what that means?

[Catch22]

Ha Ha I see what you did there.... life didn't start with the Premier League though did it?

 

No but pre-PL lots of clubs won the League with managers who didn't achieve it within your time frame.

 

Matt Busby or Don Revie for instance.

[goatboy59]

No but pre-PL lots of clubs won the League with managers who didn't achieve it within your time frame.

 

Matt Busby or Don Revie for instance.

In fairness Revie lost it in 65 on goal average. Under current rules Leeds would have won it, first season in the top flight.

 

Pretty sure Busby went close a few times before winning it too.

 

In the current circumstances a challenge isn't much to ask, and we've just had one. The whole 5 years argument has been overtaken by events, and that's coming from somone who cited it quite a lot in Houllier's waning months.

[Dirk]

What is objective in all of this? Quotes in a newspaper?

 

I'm much more inclined to believe something which i've been told by my mate, considering that his mate shares an agent with the captain of our team. I don't see he stands to gain by making stuff up.

 

But anyway, people will believe what they want to believe won't they? It's just human nature.

 

I just wanted to clear things up so that people understood where I heard these things.

 

I think you missed the point which I was making in my original post that you replied to. I wasn't doubting the basic truth of the information, that Xabi has fallen out with Rafa, I was challenging the lack of balance in them and the channels that they had come from. Primarily because of how fervent this thread is. I remember the Houllier Fowler incident, until Fowler's side of the story was given, many had sided with Houllier. I am not saying this instance is the same, I wouldn't know, I was just trying to promote a caution of sorts, on the basis that I believe it's daft to be so dogmatic on the basis of that information, given all the other possible outcomes. No more. No less. I was trying to promote some sort of harmony but, alas, I failed miserably.

[drewy]

I don't understand what that means?

 

708 7080 When you need a cab just let us know, remember Liver cabs!

 

I think that's how it went Ian. I feel old.

[Brownie]

I think you missed the point which I was making in my original post that you replied to. I wasn't doubting the basic truth of the information, that Xabi has fallen out with Rafa, I was challenging the lack of balance in them and the channels that they had come from. Primarily because of how fervent this thread is. I remember the Houllier Fowler incident, until Fowler's side of the story was given, many had sided with Houllier. I am not saying this instance is the same, I wouldn't know, I was just trying to promote a caution of sorts, on the basis that I believe it's daft to be so dogmatic on the basis of that information, given all the other possible outcomes. No more. No less. I was trying to promote some sort of harmony but, alas, I failed miserably.

 

No, I know what you mean, and I do try to balance what i'm told with the fact that it may not be true. But then everything i've read in the press and on the websites etc only goes to back up what i've heard. Xabi hasn't come out and said he wants to stay, in fact he's being very unequivocal about things.

 

Rafa is releasing official statements on the website about it and explaining about how surprised he is that Xabi's agent wanted a meeting etc.

 

It just makes sense to me when I think about it all together. Then, when something you're told actually happens it only enhances your belief in what you're told, e.g. everyone was thinking that a deal to sign Barry was nailed on but I posted on here about a week before he went to Man City that it was far from certain - that turned out true so, as I said it only enhances your belief in what you're told.

 

That's not to say it definitely is true, because i'd never be able to be certain about it.

 

Believe me, i'd love nothing more than us to not even be talking about this. I want what is best for the team, and for me that includes Xabi Alonso playing within it, hence my frustration with this whole episode.

[Brownie]

708 7080 When you need a cab just let us know, remember Liver cabs!

 

I think that's how it went Ian. I feel old.

 

Oh yeah, i've heard that on the radio!

[Yahweh]

Xabi hasn't come out and said he wants to stay, in fact he's being very unequivocal about things.

 

Yet he has come and said he has a good working relationship with the manager.

[ToxtethTerror]

Yet he has come and said he has a good working relationship with the manager.

 

I have a "professional relationship with the manager"; is totally different from "good relationship" in my opinion.

[Brownie]

Yet he has come and said he has a good working relationship with the manager.

 

I've already made my point about that so i'm not going to repeat it.

[drewy]

Yet he has come and said he has a good working relationship with the manager.

 

I find his latest comment most confusing;

 

"I do not think a move to Real Madrid is impossible, but I would also have no regrets at all staying at Liverpool."