Gerrard unhappy about Lucas criticism

[hamstrung]

SpeedyG is fit!

[lfc4eva99]

Reade is wrong

 

Bendtner deserves it; the cunt.

 

On the stats above, the difference between the top 3 is so small as to be unimportant surely. A .14% better pass accuracy isn't something you'd boast about on a custom made T-shirt.

 

Knowing Rafa thats probably something he would tell them :whistle:

[philyhamann]

Us humans are not perfect philly, if we don't like Lucas then we will find fault when he plays, if like him then he can do now wrong. But as a midfield player pass completion rate is a very good statistic and Lucas beats every bar Alonso. Even Gareth Barry is beaten by him!! For that he deserves to be "back up" midfielder surely? So much shit for a reserve midfield is unbelievable. He is young too and needs that little time. I remember Carragher being awful when he first started out, hell at times he couldn't even stand up straight and always hoofed it even more than now. Look how he has turned out? Carra was older than Lucas is now when he started becoming good.

 

If Lucas was a local lad nobody would say anything, FACT.

 

Danny Murphy, Carragher, Owen and Gerrard have all recieved a bit of abuse or unrest in the stands. I remember Owen went a month or two without scoring a few times, and just before he did his usually and went on a scoring run, the crowd started to lose a bit of patience. Gerrard was dropped for Salif frackin' Diao at one point because he was playing that badly, and people were calling for him to be dropped. I think the crowd has been strangely patient with him, and he should thank his lucky stars we aren't doing badly or people would see what a real scape goat is.

 

The idea that Lucas isn't getting a fair crack of the whip is nonsense, most people were pretty excited about him with the reputation he had, and Benitez bigging him up. Then they actually saw him play, and now he has become a bit of a joke like Biscan was. He has done fuck all here, and the only thing people seem to point to this season is a great pass to Gerrard against a farce of a club.

[Ted]

That seems about right.

[Malarkey]

Bang.

[Code]

Reade is wrong

 

Bendtner deserves it; the cunt.

 

On the stats above, the difference between the top 3 is so small as to be unimportant surely. A .14% better pass accuracy isn't something you'd boast about on a custom made T-shirt.

 

Forget the pass accuracy, what about the pass frequenzy, thats whats most interesting.

 

And off the course the fact Barry is average in most aspects of his game.

[Carradona]

Bang.

 

And the dirt is gone!

[zigackly]

Pass accuracy doesn't tell you anything about the quality of the passes, just as the distance a player runs doesn't tell you anything about the quality of the movement. Neither does the pass frequency, sorry Code. He could be making lots of accurate side or back passes over a few yards, and get better stats than someone who takes a risk and creates chances.

 

Having said that, based on what I've seen I think Lucas is good enough to be our fourth choice midfielder and might just get better.

 

The problem for me is that I think Spearing would do a good job as well, and therefore I would consider selling Lucas in the summer and putting the money towards improving our right flank.

[TommyW]

Gerrard is rocking the shit at the moment, you know he knows we can do it

[Spy Bee]

Frequenze? Can I have that in Scrabble?

[neopulian]

They're not facts, they're statistics. Watch him play, then you'll understand. He isn't a scape goat, he is genuinely shite and its obvious to everyone who goes the match regularly that he won't make it here. Gerrard has done well, but I've seen him shy away from passing it to certain players - lucas included.

 

Haha, according to that he is a better tackler than Mascherano. Fuck me.

 

Ok, so numbers aren't fact, but your opinion is? :whistle: Alright, Phil. I didn't believe in God, but if I did, you would definitely be him :whatever:

[zigackly]

The numbers aren't facts, they're just numbers, just like words are just words. They're labels we apply to try to make sense of a complex world, not always successfully. I would rather see a player make five absolutely quality passes and five shit ones than ten safe ones, and that's a fact.

[neopulian]

The numbers aren't facts, they're just numbers, just like words are just words. They're labels we apply to try to make sense of a complex world, not always successfully. I would rather see a player make five absolutely quality passes and five shit ones than ten safe ones, and that's a fact.

 

As an engineer, I'm familiar enough with numbers, stats, and their short comings, ta. They're still factual whereas anyone's opinion, mine included, is not.

[zigackly]

As an engineer, I'm familiar enough with numbers, stats, and their short comings, ta. They're still factual whereas anyone's opinion, mine included, is not.

 

They tell you fuck all about the quality of a player. It's just a count of how many passes are completed, it tells you nothing about how good they are. If you're an engineer, you should actually have a clue about statistics and not be a sheep. Are you telling me no-one can have an opinion about a footballer without a big list of numbers? That's bollocks, how do you think uncle Bob was so successful in the transfer market? He had a good calculator?

[ToxtethTerror]

Danny Murphy, Carragher, Owen and Gerrard have all recieved a bit of abuse or unrest in the stands.

 

They were all first team regulars and in the case of Carragher one of the few players of that Evans team who wasn't known for "playing football". They were all in every week hence got some abuse for poor displays. Do you think Lucas Leiva could get away with twp own goals against the Mancs at Anfield?

 

Lucas is a back up player learning the ropes, not a first teamer playing every week.

[neopulian]

They tell you fuck all about the quality of a player. It's just a count of how many passes are completed, it tells you nothing about how good they are. If you're an engineer, you should actually have a clue about statistics and not be a sheep.

 

It's called context. To have meaning, everything must have a context. But you see, I'd rather have a tangible parameters to base the comparison on rather than Phil's opinions, half of them starking mad and the other half almost so, judged by what I've been seeing here.

 

What sheepish about debunking someone's "truthiness" again?

[zigackly]

It's called context. To have meaning, everything must have a context. But you see, I'd rather have a tangible parameters to base the comparison on rather than Phil's opinions, half of them starking mad and the other half almost so, judged by what I've been seeing here.

 

What sheepish about debunking someone's "truthiness" again?

 

Well if we're just talking about Phily's opinion that he's "shite" then maybe you have a point, but debunk it by talking about the qualities of the player not by a simple count of how many times he finds a team-mate. It's fairly obvious to anyone who watches them both play that Alonso is a far better passer than Lucas, so when the stats don't reveal that then they're not very worthwhile.

[philyhamann]

They were all first team regulars and in the case of Carragher one of the few players of that Evans team who wasn't known for "playing football". They were all in every week hence got some abuse for poor displays. Do you think Lucas Leiva could get away with twp own goals against the Mancs at Anfield?

 

Lucas is a back up player learning the ropes, not a first teamer playing every week.

 

I have no idea what you mean by playing football in reference to Carragher? And no, I don't think Lucas could get away with two own goals, I'm not sure what point you're making here? You said if he was a local lad that he wouldn't get any abuse, I pointed out why he would get abuse. Just because you're local doesn't mean you're immune to it, its a total myth. Lucas doesn't get stick because he is a foreigner, he gets stick because he is shit and people don't want to see him on the pitch anymore. He is a total waste of time and resources, I have seen little or no progress since he has been here and he still does those stupid fucking foot in tackles, the Engilsh game still passes by him and he still misplaces simple passes under no pressure at all. I'm sure if he worked those out of his system, he wouldn't get any abuse, but he hasn't and he doesn't even look like he has progressed.

 

I certainly don't think Rafa helps him either by throwing him on, and after Spearing's cameo against Madrid, the crowd are rightfully asking where Spearing is.

[ToxtethTerror]

I have no idea what you mean by playing football in reference to Carragher? And no, I don't think Lucas could get away with two own goals, I'm not sure what point you're making here? You said if he was a local lad that he wouldn't get any abuse, I pointed out why he would get abuse. Just because you're local doesn't mean you're immune to it, its a total myth. Lucas doesn't get stick because he is a foreigner, he gets stick because he is shit and people don't want to see him on the pitch anymore. He is a total waste of time and resources, I have seen little or no progress since he has been here and he still does those stupid fucking foot in tackles, the Engilsh game still passes by him and he still misplaces simple passes under no pressure at all. I'm sure if he worked those out of his system, he wouldn't get any abuse, but he hasn't and he doesn't even look like he has progressed.

 

I certainly don't think Rafa helps him either by throwing him on, and after Spearing's cameo against Madrid, the crowd are rightfully asking where Spearing is.

 

Carragher scored two own goals against the Mancs and got clapped off the pitch, do you think the likes of you would do that to Leiva?

 

You aren't getting it are you? Lucas deserves some slack as he hasn't been here long, is a young player and a back up player. The names you mentioned were first team regulars been here all their life too...

[Top of the Kop]

I'm with Rash on this. The lad is young and from another country. Whilst not playing extraordinary football he is doing a solid job when called upon and, at the end of the day, that is all we can ask for for a back-up midfielder who is still learning the ropes. If Spearing came in and did the same as Lucas has (Solid performances against Inter, Man UTD and the like, and some not so good performances) people would be raving about his raw potential.

[ToxtethTerror]

I'm with Rash on this. The lad is young and from another country. Whilst not playing extraordinary football he is doing a solid job when called upon and, at the end of the day, that is all we can ask for for a back-up midfielder who is still learning the ropes. If Spearing came in and did the same as Lucas has (Solid performances against Inter, Man UTD and the like, and some not so good performances) people would be raving about his raw potential.

 

I like Spearing a lot and want him to have his chance, I even thought Spearing was a better left back than Insua once... but if Jay had played as well as Lucas did against Newcastle, people would want Alonso sold! Slight exaggeration but you get my point. Its time people left decent footballers at the club alone and concentrated on those who can't even trap a ball.

[philyhamann]

Carragher scored two own goals against the Mancs and got clapped off the pitch, do you think the likes of you would do that to Leiva?

 

You aren't getting it are you? Lucas deserves some slack as he hasn't been here long, is a young player and a back up player. The names you mentioned were first team regulars been here all their life too...

 

So its gone from local lads (FACT), to first team regulars now? Make up your mind, junior.

 

Lucas got slack, people didn't turn on him from the start, but they began to question why we paid 6m on him with Spearing ready to break through. I think people began to get a bit nervy when he put in two shit house performances against non-league opposition, then Barnsley and now people are just fucked off seeing him get on the pitch. He doesn't get booed on and off the pitch either, another complete and utter myth.

 

There is only one person who can change the crowds mind, and thats Lucas himself by putting in some half decent performances more than once or twice a year.

[philyhamann]

I like Spearing a lot and want him to have his chance, I even thought Spearing was a better left back than Insua once... but if Jay had played as well as Lucas did against Newcastle, people would want Alonso sold! Slight exaggeration but you get my point. Its time people left decent footballers at the club alone and concentrated on those who can't even trap a ball.

 

I get it. You're a mental.

[neopulian]

Well if we're just talking about Phily's opinion that he's "shite" then maybe you have a point, but debunk it by talking about the qualities of the player not by a simple count of how many times he finds a team-mate. It's fairly obvious to anyone who watches them both play that Alonso is a far better passer than Lucas, so when the stats don't reveal that then they're not very worthwhile.

 

Look. Phil claimed Lucas couldn't pass the ball 5 yard whereas the stats suggested differently, then claimed that the stats weren't as factual as his opinions -- that's where I begged to differ. Then you came in with a whole new goal post that I wasn't interested in.

 

Those stats were interesting though. If anything, it might have suggested that Lucas had been hanging on to the ball for too long -- meaning what could have been a decent pass .5 second earlier would become a hospital pass .5 second later -- which is kind of in line what I've been thinking of Lucas' play. Alonso has much more awareness. He's very good at knowing when to play 1-2 to buy time.

[ToxtethTerror]

I like footballers Philly and Lucas is one of those simple as that.