Keir Starmer

[Section_31]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

This not good though

 

 

 

 

Thing is though, none of the other non Tory parties are gaining traction either. There's lots of stuff going on here, Britain being on a 'wartime' footing, plus the Tories becoming THE party of the right and all things Brexit, alongside shifting social and political outlooks in general which seem to be throwing the "not right wing" parties into existential chaos all over the shop.

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

Thing is though, none of the other non Tory parties are gaining traction either. There's lots of stuff going on here, Britain being on a 'wartime' footing, plus the Tories becoming THE party of the right and all things Brexit, alongside shifting social and political outlooks in general which seem to be throwing the "not right wing" parties into existential chaos all over the shop.

It's definitely odd and a lot of things have fallen nicely for the Tories latley.

[Jairzinho]

45 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

Thing is though, none of the other non Tory parties are gaining traction either. There's lots of stuff going on here, Britain being on a 'wartime' footing, plus the Tories becoming THE party of the right and all things Brexit, alongside shifting social and political outlooks in general which seem to be throwing the "not right wing" parties into existential chaos all over the shop.

The polls seem to differ every week, and in fact even between polling companies, so I'm not sure how significant they are.

 

However, if The Greens kept polling somewhere around 10% I'd imagine that you could probably conclude that quite a lot of the left have decided they can't vote for this Labour Party.

[Section_31]

3 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

The polls seem to differ every week, and in fact even between polling companies, so I'm not sure how significant they are.

 

However, if The Greens kept polling somewhere around 10% I'd imagine that you could probably conclude that quite a lot of the left have decided they can't vote for this Labour Party.

I see the appeal of the greens but not for the reason that they're perceived as more left than labour, more the fact they seem to be a united party. The fictionalism of Labour is its biggest problem to my mind. I can't see it ending anytime soon either as someone will always have their champion waiting in the wings, and be willing which ever incumbent is in the hotseat to fail for that very reason.

[Jairzinho]

3 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I see the appeal of the greens but not for the reason that they're perceived as more left than labour, more the fact they seem to be a united party. The fictionalism of Labour is its biggest problem to my mind. I can't see it ending anytime soon either as someone will always have their champion waiting in the wings, and be willing which ever incumbent is in the hotseat to fail for that very reason.

Were there a PR system they'd have already split by now.

 

It's at least two parties that have given up pretending they can unite. 

[Jordy Brouwer]

9 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

The polls seem to differ every week, and in fact even between polling companies, so I'm not sure how significant they are.

 

However, if The Greens kept polling somewhere around 10% I'd imagine that you could probably conclude that quite a lot of the left have decided they can't vote for this Labour Party.

I'm not sure that's true the polls generally show a large Tory lead on a consistent basis. They move a point here and there but the general trend is clear. 

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

The polls seem to differ every week, and in fact even between polling companies, so I'm not sure how significant they are.

 

However, if The Greens kept polling somewhere around 10% I'd imagine that you could probably conclude that quite a lot of the left have decided they can't vote for this Labour Party.

They do differ but they all show healthy Tory leads. We are in strange times though.

[Gnasher]

Just now, Jordy Brouwer said:

I'm not sure that's true the polls generally show a large Tory lead on a consistent basis. They move a point here and there but the general trend is clear. 

Yeah I think your right.

[Brownie]

The country is fucked. I was sat in the bar at my golf club last week having a pint with a few fellas who i’d just met and it wasn’t long before things got depressingly familiar. “Boris”, “COVID is just like flu”, “these black footballers need to stop it now with this kneeling shit”, “hope Fury batters Joshua after what he said about white shops”, “was watching Bad Boys 2 the other day and all they do is call each other N**** all the time so why can’t we do that?”   etc etc.

 

The place is a fucking cesspit.

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I see the appeal of the greens but not for the reason that they're perceived as more left than labour, more the fact they seem to be a united party. The fictionalism of Labour is its biggest problem to my mind. I can't see it ending anytime soon either as someone will always have their champion waiting in the wings, and be willing which ever incumbent is in the hotseat to fail for that very reason.

The problem for Labour is their is no champion in waiting. All the alternatives would get hammered in a general election.

[Jairzinho]

2 minutes ago, Jordy Brouwer said:

I'm not sure that's true the polls generally show a large Tory lead on a consistent basis. They move a point here and there but the general trend is clear. 

I was referring more to the rest really.

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, Brownie said:

The country is fucked. I was sat in the bar at my golf club last week having a pint with a few fellas who i’d just met and it wasn’t long before things got depressingly familiar. “Boris”, “COVID is just like flu”, “these black footballers need to stop it now with this kneeling shit”, “hope Fury batters Joshua after what he said about white shops”, “was watching Bad Boys 2 the other day and all they do is call each other N**** all the time so why can’t we do that?”   etc etc.

 

The place is a fucking cesspit.

Change golf clubs or take up snooker.

[Brownie]

Just now, Gnasher said:

Change golf clubs or take up snooker.

That’s kinda missing the point. Fact is, you hear this shit all over the place now.

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, Brownie said:

That’s kinda missing the point. Fact is, you hear this shit all over the place now.

Yeah I know. Sorry I was just being flippant.

[Jordy Brouwer]

1 minute ago, Brownie said:

The country is fucked. I was sat in the bar at my golf club last week having a pint with a few fellas who i’d just met and it wasn’t long before things got depressingly familiar. “Boris”, “COVID is just like flu”, “these black footballers need to stop it now with this kneeling shit”, “hope Fury batters Joshua after what he said about white shops”, “was watching Bad Boys 2 the other day and all they do is call each other N**** all the time so why can’t we do that?”   etc etc.

 

The place is a fucking cesspit.

 

This becomes a self defeating ouroboros. The country rejects the left so the left rejects the country so the country rejects the left so the left...

 

Can people really be expected to hand power to people who hate them?

 

A constructive suggestion is that the left could consider being a wee bit more positive about the land it seeks to govern. 

 

[Brownie]

2 minutes ago, Jordy Brouwer said:

 

This becomes a self defeating ouroboros. The country rejects the left so the left rejects the country so the country rejects the left so the left...

 

Can people really be expected to hand power to people who hate them?

 

A constructive suggestion is that the left could consider being a wee bit more positive about the land it seeks to govern. 

 

I’m not sure there is much to be positive about. I mean, I could just pit my fingers in my ears and pretend this shit doesn’t happen.

[Jordy Brouwer]

6 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I’m not sure there is much to be positive about. I mean, I could just pit my fingers in my ears and pretend this shit doesn’t happen.

You could not leap from a few bad apples to the idea that the country is a racist shithole. Its really up to you and I'm not even suggesting you do its just a seemly unsolvable problem I'm noting.

 

A lot of people on the left despise the country openly and yet will need a democratic mandate to govern it. At its worst that could resemble something like "I hate you vote for me". 

 

From a "political science" perspective that is a bit of a head scratcher. 

[Gnasher]

21 minutes ago, Jordy Brouwer said:

 

This becomes a self defeating ouroboros. The country rejects the left so the left rejects the country so the country rejects the left so the left...

 

Can people really be expected to hand power to people who hate them?

 

A constructive suggestion is that the left could consider being a wee bit more positive about the land it seeks to govern. 

 

Well Welsh main man Mark Drakeford was doing the media rounds this morning batting media questions out of the park. Labour were looking in a bit of trouble in Wales just a few years ago. 

[sir roger]

44 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

The fictionalism of Labour is its biggest problem to my mind. 

You keep pushing this , Section , but I think we are overestimating its importance because it is something we are engaged in , whichever side of the divide. When people were questioned about not voting Labour in 2019 , worries about its internal politics was on about 2% from memory.

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, sir roger said:

You keep pushing this , Section , but I think we are overestimating its importance because it is something we are engaged in , whichever side of the divide. When people were questioned about not voting Labour in 2019 , worries about its internal politics was on about 2% from memory.

It is constantly in the media though..Whilst the rest of the country moves on you've got M Hodge and Tom Watson barking about the left on last nights newsnight. It's tiresome.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Not often you hear a story about how much of a cesspit a country is start at a golf club over drinks. We have dicks. Name a place that doesn’t? 

[Gnasher]

11 minutes ago, sir roger said:

You keep pushing this , Section , but I think we are overestimating its importance because it is something we are engaged in , whichever side of the divide. When people were questioned about not voting Labour in 2019 , worries about its internal politics was on about 2% from memory.

Also you don't here Boris Johnson barking on about Threasa May or Islamiphobia. Starma really needs to leave it now or its the hill he's going to die on.

[Section_31]

59 minutes ago, Brownie said:

That’s kinda missing the point. Fact is, you hear this shit all over the place now.

I get what you're saying but gnasher makes a good point, I doubt golf clubs have ever been a hive of progressive, Liberal views. I do agree with you know broadly though, we're deffo fucked.

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Not often you hear a story about how much of a cesspit a country is start at a golf club over drinks. We have dicks. Name a place that doesn’t? 

The country does seem to be getting a lot more I don't know 'blokey' 'banter' Im not sure the right word, maybe its come about after Ukip I don't know.

[Brownie]

4 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I get what you're saying but gnasher makes a good point, I doubt golf clubs have ever been a hive of progressive, Liberal views. I do agree with you know broadly though, we're deffo fucked.

This isn’t one of those types of clubs where you you’d probably shrug your shoulders and say “Tories gonna Tory”, it’s normal down to earth people that you wouldn’t really expect to hear this shit from. As I said earlier, it’s not an isolated incident as well, it seems to be more prevalent all over the place (this was just an individual example).

 

We can just put it down to a coincidence though and then wonder why people keep voting the way they do.