Keir Starmer

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, Strontium said:

Rightly or wrongly, most people are voting against something rather than for something. Being seen as more competent and trustworthy than your opponent is a pretty big selling point in that regard.

It helps if your opponent has a decades-long unbroken run as a self-serving liar. That sort of thing is good for opinion polls; come election time, you need something extra - whatever it is that appeals to voters, I can't see it in Starmer.

[Chairman Meow]

3 hours ago, Section_31 said:

To be honest one of the reasons I get downbeat about foodbanks and never clapped for carers is that it all feels like you're trying to fill up a bucket with holes in.

 

I think money and time would be far better invested in creating a fund and education programmes to show people how and why the world works the way it does and how it's able to fuck them over.

 

I'm not talking political education either, I'm talking stuff like did you know who owns the media companies? Do you know how to become a councillor? Do you know how to apply for education grants?

 

We need to reeducate people about what's being done and how it's being done. Only then will they have a fighting chance. 

 

Clap for nurses, but vote for the party that wants to pay them fuck all and will sell the whole NHS off in the blink of an eye if they could.

 

Re the education thing, I know I've bleated on about it quite a bit on here over the last few years, but since being back in education it's really been frightening just how bad the experience has been. The standard of teaching is dreadful, they are basically teaching kids how to get a degree rather than how to actually think critically or how to actually do the work their degree is for. 

 

I fought like fuck with the Uni pretty much since day one to try and get it improved, but they simply aren't interested, more keen on Linked In bullshit and spending their time looking like they are actually doing a good job instead of actually doing it. There are a couple of exceptions on the faculty, but they are very much the minority. Like most things though it gets quite wearing and frankly I'm now just plodding through the work to finish the course and move on. It's depressing on a few fronts, firstly just feeling like it's a waster of time in general, but then looking at my grades (I'm scoring over 90% on basically everything) and then not having any pride in that because I don't feel like the work is anywhere near hard enough.

 

That digression aside, what I originally meant to go onto with the education stuff is similar to what you said.

 

I've long maintained that several things like basic economics and finance stuff should be on the curriculum, you know stuff so you actually know how the world works so you understand this shit.

 

One of the really stand out things I noticed with the Uni is that there really seems to be a conscious attempt to make stuff seem a lot more complicated than it should be, rather than simplifying it and/or building. Likewise with most of the modern engineering books. I have engineering text books going back to the early 1900's (I really should get out more) and it's telling just how much easier they are to follow despite often covering the subjects in more depth. 

 

When I am done with Uni I am intending to start making a sort of Khan Academy on steroids thing focussed on engineering and physics. There is quite a lot of stuff available on youtube etc. which is good, but not much really focussed with a full pathway through it.

 

I'm firmly of the opinion this stuff should all be accessible and free and as no one else is providing it I am going to try and make it up myself so that people can actually try and learn this stuff without being at the mercy of the ego of a lecturer who wants to make everyone think they are really clever.

 

I'd also really like to try and get into normal schools locally and do some finance related stuff, not trying to get kids into doing fancy derivative shit or anything like that, but more or less outlining "this is how the game works, here is where they fuck you, here is how you can avoid them fucking you" kind of thing. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It helps if your opponent has a decades-long unbroken run as a self-serving liar. That sort of thing is good for opinion polls; come election time, you need something extra - whatever it is that appeals to voters, I can't see it in Starmer.

Labour will get in again at some point, but I suspect it will be more a case of the Tories losing than Labour winning as such.

 

There is only so long things can carry on getting more and more shit without it being detrimental to larger swathes of the population and that's when people will vote for a change. 

 

As sad as it is, I don't think the average punter really has that much clue how policies actually change things for the better or worse, or at least they don't seem to be able correlate what policies change certain things and the collateral changes as a result of that.

 

On Starmer in particular.

 

I'm way less engaged with what's going on in general over the last 5 or 6 years as I've really had to condense how much I am actually looking at the world as it was frankly wearing me down and depressing me.

 

But I'd say I'm still probably more aware than a lot of the population are.

 

Despite having actually tried to figure it out, I genuinely have zero idea what Starmer actually stands for. He's like the invisible man as far as I can tell.

 

We have an absolute shower of shit in power right now, a mixture of evil, stupidity and pure greed. The Labour party should be driving that home and ripping them apart at every opportunity they get. 

[Section_31]

∆∆ Yeah the higher and further education system is utterly broken. Talk about hollow patriotism, universities have been whoring themselves out to China for decades now. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

God knows, I want Labour to win the next election - we all need that - I just can't see it. Labour can only win if all wings of the party work together; Starmer (either wilfully, because he wants to do it, or naively, because someone's pulling his strings) has aggravated the divisions in the party. 

I'm fairly confident in saying they were already highly aggravated. If polls are to be believed, there's no reason a coalition isn't on the table. 

 

1 hour ago, Strontium said:

Rightly or wrongly, most people are voting against something rather than for something. Being seen as more competent and trustworthy than your opponent is a pretty big selling point in that regard.

Yeah, absolutely. I just hope he can get the media on his side. That trilateral commission of doom might come in handy. 

[Gnasher]

Starmer was excellent there.

[Captain Willard]

One thing that strikes me about British politics at the moment is the apparent disconnect between the stated hatred of the tories and the decline in left wing political activism. Labour Party membership is down by 20% from where it was under Corbyn and they are not contesting quite a few seats in the coming local elections. Taking this place as a microcosm,  the expressed anger at the Government is off the scale but the number of posters who are politically active, standing as candidates, leafletting,  knocking on doors etc seems to be limited to just a couple at most. I think @AngryOfTuebrook is a doughty old campaigner still pounding the streets and @code is a politician but not many others seem to be actually doing anything apart from shouting on here about how angry they are. Maybe I've got this wrong and you're all out door knocking every night but I'd be surprised and to quote Primo Levi, if not now, when ?

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

One thing that strikes me about British politics at the moment is the apparent disconnect between the stated hatred of the tories and the decline in left wing political activism. Labour Party membership is down by 20% from where it was under Corbyn and they are not contesting quite a few seats in the coming local elections. Taking this place as a microcosm,  the expressed anger at the Government is off the scale but the number of posters who are politically active, standing as candidates, leafletting,  knocking on doors etc seems to be limited to just a couple at most. I think @AngryOfTuebrook is a doughty old campaigner still pounding the streets and @code is a politician but not many others seem to be actually doing anything apart from shouting on here about how angry they are. Maybe I've got this wrong and you're all out door knocking every night but I'd be surprised and to quote Primo Levi, if not now, when ?

I live in one of the safest Labour seats in the country. Campaigning round here would be pointless. 
 

I also don’t feel anywhere near as attached to Labour these days. I’m firmly in the anyone but these Tory cunts camp. 

[Jairzinho]

Yes, lots of people either live in Labour safe seats or Tory safe seats, or see absolutely nothing from the Labour Party to inspire giving up free time for, or have lost faith in the Democratic/Political/Voting system as it exists in the UK, etc, etc. 

 

There are a million reasons why anger doesn't translate to activism. The necessity to work every hour under the sun just to ensure your house actually has heating being a fairly important current one. 

 

It's difficult to focus on systemic change when it is so unbelievably unlikely, and you have your own individual more pressing issues to deal with. 

 

 

 

 

[Arniepie]

I think whoever the Labour leader is they have a couple of huge disadvantages

A huge chunk of the country will vote tory no matter what.

There are of course,a Labour equivalent but I'd suggest they are far less in number and if the last election is anything to go by, more fickle.

There is also a right wing media in this country who have absolutely hammered home the messege that a politician with Any sort of social justice ticket is some sort of crazed radical communist.

There is also the trivial matter that it's cleary not a level playing field

 

[Kepler-186]

26 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

One thing that strikes me about British politics at the moment is the apparent disconnect between the stated hatred of the tories and the decline in left wing political activism. Labour Party membership is down by 20% from where it was under Corbyn and they are not contesting quite a few seats in the coming local elections. Taking this place as a microcosm,  the expressed anger at the Government is off the scale but the number of posters who are politically active, standing as candidates, leafletting,  knocking on doors etc seems to be limited to just a couple at most. I think @AngryOfTuebrook is a doughty old campaigner still pounding the streets and @code is a politician but not many others seem to be actually doing anything apart from shouting on here about how angry they are. Maybe I've got this wrong and you're all out door knocking every night but I'd be surprised and to quote Primo Levi, if not now, when ?

I live in another safe as houses Labour seat on Merseyside, and the best we get is leaflets sent in the post occasionally from ward councillors, something from the MP near election times. The local free sheet newspaper has a bit of local news but it’s a weekly used to sell advertising. No other political parties even bother as far as I am aware. Sure, they’re out there somewhere. 

 

 

Saying that, on the local front there’s a massive local issue here which has galvanised people into local

activism that is non party political but rather environmental. I’ve been involved in that to an extent. 
 

I also got involved with a police scheme addressing gang culture and the targeting or “grooming” of young kids of both sexes into crime. On the day of the event I attended, scrambler bike scallies attacked a local park’s family event. 
 

Where there were independent shops and retailers on high streets are now a mix of 7/11 style mini marts, takeaways, or converted flats. 
I don’t think a lot of people can afford to be arsed about politics because too many of

them are just about keeping their heads above water. 
 

Kids health and educational outcomes are worse. There’s no big employers. 
 

There are independents standing against Labour, a few Greens in better off wards. The feeling is that Labour are a bit of a mafia round here. Too many people from

the same families. 

 

I’ve engaged with local

councillors over cleansing and upkeep of a subway under a busy road and ended up hassling Highways England for two years about improvements. The councillors pretty much washed their hands of it. Not exactly inspiring. 
 

We all like a moan on here but why shouldn’t we be angry. It’s clear as day that the current government is corrupt as fuck, have done great damage to the country over the last 12 years leading to rising inequality, dogshit like Brexit and a general shit state of affairs. 
 

Love to see some Tory activists espousing the small state and pull yourself up by your bootstraps down Stanley Road or County Road. 
 

Even if a youngster does well

at school they’re saddled with £50,000 worth of debt to go to uni. 
 

I reckon there’s loads of activism goes on,

just it’s no longer “left wing” it’s a community looking out for itself in the face of indifference. 
 

 

 

 

[Arniepie]

5 minutes ago, Kepler-186 said:

I live in another safe as houses Labour seat on Merseyside, and the best we get is leaflets sent in the post occasionally from ward councillors, something from the MP near election times. The local free sheet newspaper has a bit of local news but it’s a weekly used to sell advertising. No other political parties even bother as far as I am aware. Sure, they’re out there somewhere. 

 

 

Saying that, on the local front there’s a massive local issue here which has galvanised people into local

activism that is non party political but rather environmental. I’ve been involved in that to an extent. 
 

I also got involved with a police scheme addressing gang culture and the targeting or “grooming” of young kids of both sexes into crime. On the day of the event I attended, scrambler bike scallies attacked a local park’s family event. 
 

Where there were independent shops and retailers on high streets are now a mix of 7/11 style mini marts, takeaways, or converted flats. 
I don’t think a lot of people can afford to be arsed about politics because too many of

them are just about keeping their heads above water. 
 

Kids health and educational outcomes are worse. There’s no big employers. 
 

There are independents standing against Labour, a few Greens in better off wards. The feeling is that Labour are a bit of a mafia round here. Too many people from

the same families. 

 

I’ve engaged with local

councillors over cleansing and upkeep of a subway under a busy road and ended up hassling Highways England for two years about improvements. The councillors pretty much washed their hands of it. Not exactly inspiring. 
 

We all like a moan on here but why shouldn’t we be angry. It’s clear as day that the current government is corrupt as fuck, have done great damage to the country over the last 12 years leading to rising inequality, dogshit like Brexit and a general shit state of affairs. 
 

Love to see some Tory activists espousing the small state and pull yourself up by your bootstraps down Stanley Road or County Road. 
 

Even if a youngster does well

at school they’re saddled with £50,000 worth of debt to go to uni. 
 

I reckon there’s loads of activism goes on,

just it’s no longer “left wing” it’s a community looking out for itself in the face of indifference. 
 

 

 

 

Like you say.

I think a lot of people are just fighting to keep their heads above water. 

I also think there is a huge amount of apathy country wide.

[Bjornebye]

Watch the lies and smear ramp up

 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Watch the lies and smear ramp up

 

 

 

 

 

They don't need to make up smears with Rachel Reeves and Co, just mention Jeremy Corbyns name and they can't resist walking right in,

 

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/rachel-reeves-says-she-is-pleased-jeremy-corbyn-is-not-prime-minister-3667288

[Numero Veinticinco]

Negged for posting that here too. You already posted it in the Corbyn thread. 

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Negged for posting that here too. You already posted it in the Corbyn thread. 

Fair enough.

[Gnasher]

Expensive education, presenter on a British news channel, calls himself a "journalist"

 

 

[Gnasher]

The Mail are full of contrition,

 

 

[Bjornebye]

Oh the attacks on Labour will be ramped up no end now. Local elections coming up, the PM in constant shit and Starmer threatening tax relief for non-Dom’s. You don’t go after their money oh hell no. You better believe they will smear and slander like fuck. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I won’t do it but I wonder if Labour actually know that this might actually attract some people to vote for the Lib Dems? 

[Creator Supreme]

I couldn't give a shite about whether drugs are legalised or not, but I'm with them on the nukes!

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

2 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

I couldn't give a shite about whether drugs are legalised or not, but I'm with them on the nukes!

Apparently, that’s not even their policy on nukes and Labour have misrepresented it. 

[Creator Supreme]

9 minutes ago, Nelly-Matip said:

Apparently, that’s not even their policy on nukes and Labour have misrepresented it. 

Ah, shame!

[Numero Veinticinco]

Getting rid of nukes is a ridiculous idea, unless everybody does it at once. Doing it unilaterally is a thick-as-mince approach. 

[Strontium]

16 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Getting rid of nukes is a ridiculous idea, unless everybody does it at once. Doing it unilaterally is a thick-as-mince approach. 

 

Yep. Good job it's not something we support.

 

However, guilty as charged on the liberal drugs policy.

[Bjornebye]

They should go on Russia Today and punt it