Keir Starmer

[Numero Veinticinco]

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

 

[Bjornebye]

Watch that gap close now we haven't got the Captain out batting for us..... He's determined to destroy this country I swear 

[Numero Veinticinco]

35 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

I think I’m jibbing off the activism. Can’t be arsed anymore. Others have left my branch to the point we got so small I had to take on some roles just to keep the thing going. I think suspending my mate was probably the last straw for me though. She was head and shoulders above everyone else in doing hours and hours of unpaid shit, even when it was making her ill. 
 

I decided this in my head weeks ago, but I’ve been putting off letting everyone else know. I’ll keep my membership so I retain my vote, and I’ll turn up to some meetings so the branch doesn’t fold but beyond that I think I’m done. 

Fair enough (obviously, it’s your time and your choice) but it’s a strange one for me to read because I’ve actually been thinking about getting involved; there’s a chance it would make some sort of difference in the end, and anything I can do to help end the Tory government would be time well spent for me. Looking at the polls, Labour have a realistic chance of being in power next time, and it hasn’t been like that for a very long time. 

[Captain Turdseye]

1 minute ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Fair enough (obviously, it’s your time and your choice) but it’s a strange one for me to read because I’ve actually been thinking about getting involved; there’s a chance it would make some sort of difference in the end, and anything I can do to help end the Tory government would be time we’ll spend to me. Looking at the polls, Labour have a realistic chance of being in power next time, and it hasn’t been like that for a very long time. 

I’ll still vote Labour, and who knows, maybe Starmer gets in and changes things for the better. Let’s be honest, he can’t do worse than this government. Labour could get in (a coalition?) purely off the back of how shit Johnson and this government have been. 
 

There’s just nothing to be passionate about for me to be going out knocking on doors, sitting on market stalls, etc, when all we really have to say is “at least he’s not Boris Johnson”

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Captain Turdseye said:

I’ll still vote Labour, and who knows, maybe Starmer gets in and changes things for the better. Let’s be honest, he can’t do worse than this government. Labour could get in (a coalition?) purely off the back of how shit Johnson and this government have been. 
 

There’s just nothing to be passionate about for me to be going out knocking on doors, sitting on market stalls, etc, when all we really have to say is “at least he’s not Boris Johnson”

What's it like doing it round yours? Do you get shit off tories? 

[Captain Turdseye]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

What's it like doing it round yours? Do you get shit off tories? 

Proper Tories just shut the door on you, it’s the nutters and weirdos that keep you talking the longest. In our constituency there’s villages where there’s literally no point visiting. 
 

The most exasperating ones are when you go round the council estates and people either aren’t arsed or have full on swallowed all the Brexit bullshit. 

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Proper Tories just shut the door on you, it’s the nutters and weirdos that keep you talking the longest. In our constituency there’s villages where there’s literally no point visiting. 
 

The most exasperating ones are when you go round the council estates and people either aren’t arsed or have full on swallowed all the Brexit bullshit. 

Yep, that would be demoralising. Just looking at them with pity knowing that no mater what, they have fallen hook line and sinker for the bullshit. 

[Captain Turdseye]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Yep, that would be demoralising. Just looking at them with pity knowing that no mater what, they have fallen hook line and sinker for the bullshit. 

It’s not pity, it’s frustration. 
 

I think politics should be on the school curriculum. Mine were definitely misguided when I was younger. Learning about it at school would make people less susceptible to what gets written in the right wing press. 

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

It’s not pity, it’s frustration. 
 

I think politics should be on the school curriculum. Mine were definitely misguided when I was younger. Learning about it at school would make people less susceptible to what gets written in the right wing press. 

I've said it for years but then you're relying on an impartial teacher etc. The curriculum is shite. Economics should be an essential lesson throughout senior school but I don't think it pays to have clued up kids coming out of school, privy to the pit-falls of credit/debt, aware how they need to behave to get on the property ladder sooner etc. That way they can manipulate desperate people with soundbites and slogans on buses. "These boat people will steal your jobs!" 

[Numero Veinticinco]

16 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

I’ll still vote Labour, and who knows, maybe Starmer gets in and changes things for the better. Let’s be honest, he can’t do worse than this government. Labour could get in (a coalition?) purely off the back of how shit Johnson and this government have been. 
 

There’s just nothing to be passionate about for me to be going out knocking on doors, sitting on market stalls, etc, when all we really have to say is “at least he’s not Boris Johnson”

Fair enough if that’s how you feel, mate. I think there’s more about him than that. I actually think he’d make a far better PM than a Labour leader. I’m the day to day operation, I want somebody who is competent, which I don’t think Corbyn ever was, and I know Johnson isn’t, and I want somebody who can get a progressive agenda put into practice, which we haven’t seen since Brown and Blair. 

[Bruce Spanner]

9 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

It’s not pity, it’s frustration. 
 

I think politics should be on the school curriculum. Mine were definitely misguided when I was younger. Learning about it at school would make people less susceptible to what gets written in the right wing press. 

 

It was removed by Gove in 2015 as part of his destruction of standards in education, a year where critical thinking was also removed as a distinct thing. This is futher exacerbated by the ridiculous reform coming in now which prevent criticism of capitalism, governement and proscribe BLM, ER and all manner of other protest groups 'Terrioist organisations' as they are against the 'Standards in British lives'.

 

Gove's were nationalistic-lite nonsense meant to pander to idiots, whilst dumbing down knowledge and engagement in politics. The new ones are dangerous as they are an interpretation away teachers being sacked for being critical of anything the gov do. Truly appalling.

 

It's all very delibrate

[Bjornebye]

7 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

It was removed by Gove in 2015 as part of his destruction of standards in education, a year where critical thinking was also removed as a distinct thing. This is futher exacerbated by the ridiculous reform coming in now which prevent criticism of capitalism, governement and proscribe BLM, ER and all manner of other protest groups 'Terrioist organisations' as they are against the 'Standards in British lives'.

 

Gove's were nationalistic-lite nonsense meant to pander to idiots, whilst dumbing down knowledge and engagement in politics. The new ones are dangerous as they are an interpretation away teachers being sacked for being critical of anything the gov do. Truly appalling.

 

It's all very delibrate

And things like this don't get shouted about enough. Save from a guy with a megaphone outside Parliament and the odd Daily Mirror front page nobody is really challenging it. My history teacher was an old school union man, loved a debate and would rather sit and discuss things with the class rather than read and follow a text book. I suspect teachers certainly at senior school level are too scared to rock the cart that they feed kids exactly what they are told too without much deviation or opinion based discussion. 

 

There does appear to be a far more Labour/Green leaning youth coming through which bodes well for the future I think. 

[Creator Supreme]

Education is appalling these days, to paraphrase Michael Moore, it's all about learning for the test!

 

Politics and Economics should be compulsory up to age 16, but as was mentioned above you need an impartial teacher! It's as little good having a trotskyite teaching such subjects as it is having a right wing tory.

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

Education is appalling these days, to paraphrase Michael Moore, it's all about learning for the test!

 

Politics and Economics should be compulsory up to age 16, but as was mentioned above you need an impartial teacher! It's as little good having a trotskyite teaching such subjects as it is having a right wing tory.

Absolutely. 

[Section_31]

38 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

Education is appalling these days, to paraphrase Michael Moore, it's all about learning for the test!

 

Politics and Economics should be compulsory up to age 16, but as was mentioned above you need an impartial teacher! It's as little good having a trotskyite teaching such subjects as it is having a right wing tory.

To be honest one of the reasons I get downbeat about foodbanks and never clapped for carers is that it all feels like you're trying to fill up a bucket with holes in.

 

I think money and time would be far better invested in creating a fund and education programmes to show people how and why the world works the way it does and how it's able to fuck them over.

 

I'm not talking political education either, I'm talking stuff like did you know who owns the media companies? Do you know how to become a councillor? Do you know how to apply for education grants?

 

We need to reeducate people about what's being done and how it's being done. Only then will they have a fighting chance. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Fair enough if that’s how you feel, mate. I think there’s more about him than that. I actually think he’d make a far better PM than a Labour leader. I’m the day to day operation, I want somebody who is competent, which I don’t think Corbyn ever was, and I know Johnson isn’t, and I want somebody who can get a progressive agenda put into practice, which we haven’t seen since Brown and Blair. 

I'm not convinced by Starmer's ability to get things done. I've been really disappointed at his general haplessness. I could be completely wrong (it wouldn't be the first time) but he gives me the impression of someone unsuited for politics, out of his depth and easily manipulated by people more concerned with factional bloodletting than actually improving things for people.

[Numero Veinticinco]

21 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I'm not convinced by Starmer's ability to get things done. I've been really disappointed at his general haplessness. I could be completely wrong (it wouldn't be the first time) but he gives me the impression of someone unsuited for politics, out of his depth and easily manipulated by people more concerned with factional bloodletting than actually improving things for people.

I think there's always going to be a difference of opinion on this one. I don't think what you say above is grounded in much that's actually happened. He gives me the impression of a guy who is extremely experienced at a highly professional level in terms of leadership and getting results (grounded in the fact he was top of the chain in his previous profession), who then switched career and rose to the top of his party (obviously grounded in the fact he did that, and has taken the party from being an unelectable mess which just got handily smashed to bits in the election with an incredibly unpopular leader to gradually becoming favorites in the polls (grounded in the fact that those things have happened), handling most situations quite well (which is a judgement call on my part). I actually think he hasn't been manipulated and think it's those on the opposite side in the 'factional bloodletting' that think he's been manipulated into it. I think he actually has an issue with those in the other faction and the way they're behaving. That said, I might think that because I agree that they're wallopers, for the most part. 

 

Still, there's little point in us debating it too hard. Only an election is really going to settle it. If he can't win that, he's no good to me. If he can, I really don't care what his opponents say.

[Captain Turdseye]

13 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I think there's always going to be a difference of opinion on this one. I don't think what you say above is grounded in much that's actually happened. He gives me the impression of a guy who is extremely experienced at a highly professional level in terms of leadership and getting results (grounded in the fact he was top of the chain in his previous profession), who then switched career and rose to the top of his party (obviously grounded in the fact he did that, and has taken the party from being an unelectable mess which just got handily smashed to bits in the election with an incredibly unpopular leader to gradually becoming favorites in the polls (grounded in the fact that those things have happened), handling most situations quite well (which is a judgement call on my part). I actually think he hasn't been manipulated and think it's those on the opposite side in the 'factional bloodletting' that think he's been manipulated into it. I think he actually has an issue with those in the other faction and the way they're behaving. That said, I might think that because I agree that they're wallopers, for the most part. 

 

Still, there's little point in us debating it too hard. Only an election is really going to settle it. If he can't win that, he's no good to me. If he can, I really don't care what his opponents say.

 

Let’s say you’re out campaigning for a General Election, you knock on people’s doors and then try and sell them Kier Starmer as PM. What do you say to them, other than at least he’s not Johnson/The Tories?

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

 

Let’s say you’re out campaigning for a General Election, you knock on people’s doors and then try and sell them Kier Starmer as PM. What do you say to them, other than at least he’s not Johnson/The Tories?

There'd be a manifesto. I'd talk about policies. If they really pushed on who he was as a person, I'd focus on his achievements in his professional life, his upbringing, and his clear integrity vs the likes of Johnson and the Tories. I'd honestly find it much easier to talk about him than I would have ever done about Corbyn or even Miliband. I don't think elections are won and lost on the doorstep anymore, anyway. If they ever were. 

[Captain Turdseye]

9 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

There'd be a manifesto. I'd talk about policies. If they really pushed on who he was as a person, I'd focus on his achievements in his professional life, his upbringing, and his clear integrity vs the likes of Johnson and the Tories. I'd honestly find it much easier to talk about him than I would have ever done about Corbyn or even Miliband. I don't think elections are won and lost on the doorstep anymore, anyway. If they ever were. 

 

Well there you go, I think you’re probably right on that last bit, so what’s the point getting involved now? It’s futile trying to chat to people about manifestos because most don’t give a shit. The last couple of manifestos offered real change. It’s more like a personality contest and the Tories will put someone up who’s personality gets built up daily on the telly and in the papers.
 

There’s virtually no chance of meeting someone happy to listen to you prattle on about the life and times of Sir Kier Starmer. 

Can you understand why I’ve decided to jib all that stuff? I’ve sunk plenty of time into it already in a safe Tory seat. What’s the point?

[Numero Veinticinco]

7 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

 

Well there you go, I think you’re probably right on that last bit, so what’s the point getting involved now? It’s futile trying to chat to people about manifestos because most don’t give a shit. The last couple of manifestos offered real change. It’s more like a personality contest and the Tories will put someone up who’s personality gets built up daily on the telly and in the papers.
 

There’s virtually no chance of meeting someone happy to listen to you prattle on about the life and times of Sir Kier Starmer. 

Can you understand why I’ve decided to jib all that stuff? I’ve sunk plenty of time into it already in a safe Tory seat. What’s the point?

Well, the last manifesto was comprehensively rejected or, at the very least, the party and the leader pushing it were, so I'd imagine those wanting to hear something different are probably more than you think. Though maybe not in your area - not all are the same. I get why you decided to jib it off, I'm certainly not making an argument for you to stay and do something you don't want to. My argument is that it looks as though there's finally a point in helping out in some way, not because I'm a Labourite - I'm not - but because if these gaggle of cunts can be shifted, than I see a point in helping out. 

[Strontium]

Rightly or wrongly, most people are voting against something rather than for something. Being seen as more competent and trustworthy than your opponent is a pretty big selling point in that regard.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I think there's always going to be a difference of opinion on this one. I don't think what you say above is grounded in much that's actually happened. He gives me the impression of a guy who is extremely experienced at a highly professional level in terms of leadership and getting results (grounded in the fact he was top of the chain in his previous profession), who then switched career and rose to the top of his party (obviously grounded in the fact he did that, and has taken the party from being an unelectable mess which just got handily smashed to bits in the election with an incredibly unpopular leader to gradually becoming favorites in the polls (grounded in the fact that those things have happened), handling most situations quite well (which is a judgement call on my part). I actually think he hasn't been manipulated and think it's those on the opposite side in the 'factional bloodletting' that think he's been manipulated into it. I think he actually has an issue with those in the other faction and the way they're behaving. That said, I might think that because I agree that they're wallopers, for the most part. 

 

Still, there's little point in us debating it too hard. Only an election is really going to settle it. If he can't win that, he's no good to me. If he can, I really don't care what his opponents say.

God knows, I want Labour to win the next election - we all need that - I just can't see it. Labour can only win if all wings of the party work together; Starmer (either wilfully, because he wants to do it, or naively, because someone's pulling his strings) has aggravated the divisions in the party.