Harvey Elliott

[Supremolad]

On 11/03/2024 at 08:19, Barrington Womble said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. I thought he was the worst player on the pitch first half. 

Not even close. Gomez and Szobozlai were not great at all in the first half. And Nunez had endeavour but daftly got caught offside 5 times in that half. Elliot was better than those 3 in the first half.

[The wanderer]

On 11/03/2024 at 19:24, stringvest said:

I want to like him as a player, when I see him busily flitting around the pitch, but objectively I just don't see what he brings to the team in games like that - particularly when starting.  He tends to look like the young underdeveloped  player that he is, playing against fully grown experienced men.  He definitely impacts the game more when coming on against tiring players.

I don’t think he is quick enough to play wide up front . His best displays for me always come from mf. He is definitely going to get better with age.

[TheSire]

On 10/03/2024 at 23:13, Redder Lurtz said:

Short of a 100% fit Mo to play in that position today I don't know who else the smart arsed match thread wannabe managers would have started there. He didn't tear up too many trees in the first half but he didn't let anyone down and he was more effective in closing down and pressuring the longer the 2nd half went on. Huge season for him, this and hard to believe he's only 20. 

More stepovers needed.

[TheHowieLama]

Is there a more valuable 20 year old in the league? (Other than Bradley....)

[Pidge]

Hojlund apparently... Oscar Bobb? Miley getting rave reviews at Newcastle, Gray at Leeds (obviously not PL, but he looks very good)

 

Quansah in there too. 

[DaveT]

On 11/03/2024 at 08:19, Barrington Womble said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. I thought he was the worst player on the pitch first half. 

That was Haaland, surely?!

[TheHowieLama]

39 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Hojlund apparently... Oscar Bobb? Miley getting rave reviews at Newcastle, Gray at Leeds (obviously not PL, but he looks very good)

 

Quansah in there too. 

 

No.

Who?

No.

No.

 

[Pidge]

Both Hojlund and Quansah turned 21 this year, not much of a liberty...

[Bob]

21 hours ago, Pidge said:

Both Hojlund and Quansah turned 21 this year, not much of a liberty...

If putting 21 year old in for comparison- which i think is entirely fair given that exposure to first team football is probably a more important measure than simply age - I think the yardstick almost certainly has to be Cole Palmer and he's had a tremendous season, scoring 11 and assisting 8 in 23 league appearances according to a quick Google.

[Pidge]

12 minutes ago, Bob said:

If putting 21 year old in for comparison- which i think is entirely fair given that exposure to first team football is probably a more important measure than simply age - I think the yardstick almost certainly has to be Cole Palmer and he's had a tremendous season, scoring 11 and assisting 8 in 23 league appearances according to a quick Google.

Yeah, my loose criteria was keeping the guys that turned 21 this year or this season, Palmer was last season. But still, I also totally overlooked him so, fair point!

[No2]

Palmer is a great comparison, if we had signed him this summer we would have been delighted if he matched Harvey's contribution this season. Instead we judge Harvey to different standards, because he isn't as fast as Mo Salah. Elliott is a super footballer, just look at the amount of appearances he's made in a Jurgen Klopp team and then factor in half his leg was hanging off at one point.

[No2]

By the way is first touch is as good as anyone in the league. Someone fired a pass at him on Sunday that was knee height and he killed it stone dead with shin pad or something miraculous like that. I still don't know what part of his anatomy he used.

[Pidge]

29 minutes ago, No2 said:

By the way is first touch is as good as anyone in the league. Someone fired a pass at him on Sunday that was knee height and he killed it stone dead with shin pad or something miraculous like that. I still don't know what part of his anatomy he used.

Yeah it's the most striking thing about him and Jones. Some teams don't even bother to press him anymore in deeper areas (which might indicate a lack of concern about his pace, I guess), but he helps relieve pressure a lot of the time when we're trying to play out. Sometimes overplays it, but that's the nature of playing younger guys.

[Code]

1 hour ago, Bob said:

If putting 21 year old in for comparison- which i think is entirely fair given that exposure to first team football is probably a more important measure than simply age - I think the yardstick almost certainly has to be Cole Palmer and he's had a tremendous season, scoring 11 and assisting 8 in 23 league appearances according to a quick Google.

Palmer is one year older and 22 in two months time.

 

Penalties need to be scored, but in comparison with Elliott I think its fair to point out that 5 of 11 PL goals this season from Palmer have been penalties. 
 

Palmer has started 19 PL games and got 1746 minutes so far.

 

Elliott on the other hand has started only 6 PL games and got 826 minutes so far, he’s scored 2 goals. 
 

We are on another level to Chelsea, last year when Palmer played in a team at our level he hardly got a sniff.

 

Palmer is also playing more like a forward, so it’s not a like for like comparison.

 

 

 

 

[TheHowieLama]

If the argument is now there is one guy his age better than him in the entire league then what exactly is the point?

He is a fantastic player already - no one seriously disagrees with that.

[Code]

Don’t know about that, there are a lot of players in the age group 19-22 (born 2002) playing in the league, some of them really good players. 

[TheHowieLama]

Someone could probably name 10 - as of yet they haven't.

[Code]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Someone could probably name 10 - as of yet they haven't.

Haha yes more than 10 to be honest.

 

Here are some names, obviously difficult to compare players from different clubs and positions, but there are some really good young players in the league now. 

 

J.Gvardiol, J.Doku, C.Palmer, D.Udogie, P.Sarr, J.Branthwaite, A.Garnacho, L.Colwill, J.Enciso, R.Højlund, E.Ferguson, T.Livramento, R.Gravenberch, A.Elanga, J.Quansah, C.Bradley, M.Gusto, K.Mainoo, L.Miley, O.Bobb and S.Adingra.

 

 

[Bob]

1 hour ago, Code said:

Palmer is one year older and 22 in two months time.

 

Penalties need to be scored, but in comparison with Elliott I think its fair to point out that 5 of 11 PL goals this season from Palmer have been penalties. 
 

Palmer has started 19 PL games and got 1746 minutes so far.

 

Elliott on the other hand has started only 6 PL games and got 826 minutes so far, he’s scored 2 goals. 
 

We are on another level to Chelsea, last year when Palmer played in a team at our level he hardly got a sniff.

 

Palmer is also playing more like a forward, so it’s not a like for like comparison.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that's all fair. I wasn't particularly meaning they should be compared in terms of their outputs, but he's still a good comparison in terms of young attacking English talent I think.

[VladimirIlyich]

18 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

If the argument is now there is one guy his age better than him in the entire league then what exactly is the point?

He is a fantastic player already - no one seriously disagrees with that.

Very,very good? Yes. Fantastc? Not yet.

[Pidge]

19 hours ago, Code said:

Haha yes more than 10 to be honest.

 

Here are some names, obviously difficult to compare players from different clubs and positions, but there are some really good young players in the league now. 

 

J.Gvardiol, J.Doku, C.Palmer, D.Udogie, P.Sarr, J.Branthwaite, A.Garnacho, L.Colwill, J.Enciso, R.Højlund, E.Ferguson, T.Livramento, R.Gravenberch, A.Elanga, J.Quansah, C.Bradley, M.Gusto, K.Mainoo, L.Miley, O.Bobb and S.Adingra.

 

 

 

Gusto and Ferguson (when fit, which seems increasingly rare) are good shouts, not sure about the others (at Elliott's age or younger, would definitely agree on some a year or so above). Garnacho is one I could see getting in a debate over, but he's a flash idiot, the polar opposite of Harvey on the field.

[TheHowieLama]

4 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Very,very good? Yes. Fantastc? Not yet.

 

Nope, I just checked WhoScored.

He's fantastic already.

[Code]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Nope, I just checked WhoScored.

He's fantastic already.

Im certainly not a fan of the WhoScored rating system, the algorithm does not seem to have a “football brain” as it does not consider runs without the ball, when to make the pass or not, movement to create space for yourself and others, movement to always be available for a pass etc,etc.

 

H.Elliott is currently ranked as number 213 in their rating system.

 

 

[TheHowieLama]

Go under the Detailed tab there - that is where you will find the Fantastic category.

 

[3 Stacks]

Whoscored is for amateurs. Fbref is a far superior site.