VAR Thoughts?

[Trumo]

49 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

and stop hiding behind “you can’t mic up the refs because the players swear too much” put that responsibility to not swear on the players. It’s not impossible. Tell them “you’re mic’d and it’s always live, if you swear at me you’re booked - no ifs, no buts”. 

 

There's a Youtube compilation featuring Nigel Owens mic'd up, and in one clip Dan Carter approaches him to say something and Owen tells him not to swear as he's on TV. I'm sure rugby fans will recall times where Owens has made the wrong decision, but generally he comes across as knowledgeable, authoritative, and an effective communicator with a sense of humour.

[Mudface]

25 minutes ago, Trumo said:

 

There's a Youtube compilation featuring Nigel Owens mic'd up, and in one clip Dan Carter approaches him to say something and Owen tells him not to swear as he's on TV. I'm sure rugby fans will recall times where Owens has made the wrong decision, but generally he comes across as knowledgeable, authoritative, and an effective communicator with a sense of humour.

 

My favourite one from him-

 

 

Only allowing captains to talk to the referee would be a good change.

[Poor Scouser T]

1 hour ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

I don’t disagree with you - and I am the one of my mates who gets called boring for how often I call refs out for being shit - but the answer is definitely not nerds applying the letter of the law. 
 

The answer is pretty simple to me, it’s transparency. You mic the refs and let everyone at home hear every word both ways. You see what the var shows them AND what the var says. Rugby don’t have this a million times better because their rules are better or easier - I’d say it’s the opposite - but they have it a million times better.

 

we’re not going to end up with better referees tomorrow, so we’re gonna have to live with that for a bit, but this would be a huge beneficial change.

 

and stop hiding behind “you can’t mic up the refs because the players swear too much” put that responsibility to not swear on the players. It’s not impossible. Tell them “you’re mic’d and it’s always live, if you swear at me you’re booked - no ifs, no buts”. 

Good post and cannot disagree with anything you say. Good point about the complexity of the rules in rugby. If they can manage that then footy should be a doddle. I particularly like the comms between the ref and players in play when the ref sees an infringement and tells the player to pack it in but allows play to carry on. Prob not translate to footy but shows the difference in referee understanding of play. 

[Bob]

2 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Good post and cannot disagree with anything you say. Good point about the complexity of the rules in rugby. If they can manage that then footy should be a doddle. I particularly like the comms between the ref and players in play when the ref sees an infringement and tells the player to pack it in but allows play to carry on. Prob not translate to footy but shows the difference in referee understanding of play. 

It just all feels more serious, more professional, and more grown up. I’m pretty sure the refs in footy are talking to the players throughout the game - like when they let something go or play on even though they recognise a foul - but you’re right the rugby refs saying “no, 8, don’t do that” is something I find enjoyable about the reffing in rugby and broadly isn’t necessary in football, but again it plays into feeling like the refs are trying to get the right outcome in a game I honestly don’t know even half of the rules of.

 

If we heard Oliver or Coote saying “not enough in that” or “it was into his back, not his shoulder” when not giving or when giving a free kick, that’s one thing and wouldn’t make a lot of difference either way, but it makes you understand the small decisions, but it’s these big decisions where you really should hear every word at this level, purely and simply because they have eroded trust and don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt any more.

 

Right now we’re pissed off about a lot of things, one of which is the still frame of Curtis foul influencing the on field ref. Imagine that was mic’d up and we heard this:

 

VAR: can you have it ready to run from when he first makes contact with the ball please from the second angle, first at normal speed”

VAR: sorry Simon, technical issue, stuck on freeze frame for a second. Will get it rolling asap.

REF: soon as you can please guys.

VAR: sorry, here it is now *rolls on*.
 

REF: fair tackle but high on the ball and definitely follows through into the players shin, very high and forceful. Not deliberate but not in control so I’m upgrading that to red.

I would think differently to how I do now. I’d think he’s applied the rules in a fair and professional way and reached a decision I don’t agree with, but without obvious bias or intent to screw us.

 

I don’t think the VAR tech needs to be better but that would be it. I’d feel aggrieved but I wouldn’t feel totally screwed over. It would feel like it used to feel when a ref gave a decision you didn’t like.  
 

We’re never going to hear what was said or not said on that decision, and unless we win our appeal, which feels extremely unlikely, the thing we’re all so pissed off about with the image being displayed will not even be a side note to this game.

 

I would bin VAR off altogether personally, but that’s not happening so hoping they grow up and adopt greater transparency in real time is the best we can ask for I think.

[El Rojo]

Hope all this shit doesn't become a distraction for us. The Brighton game on Sunday will be a difficult one, especially after they were humiliated by Villa last weekend. 

[Mook]

If they make Football anymore like rugby, I'll stop watching altogether.

 

They've already ruined it quite enough, thanks.

 

Fuck VAR.

[Mook]

My Dad is the same as me, he's been going to Ibrox since 1971 and stopped within 12 months of VAR being introduced into top flight Scottish Football.

 

He's going to watch Carlisle Utd every other week now, no VAR to destroy the game there.

[Poor Scouser T]

1 minute ago, Mook said:

If they make Football anymore like rugby, I'll stop watching altogether.

 

They've already ruined it quite enough, thanks.

 

Fuck VAR.

Don't think anyone is saying that but rugby refs appear to get respect. Not because the players are a middle class and the fans are all named Hugo its is because they earn it with the way they conduct themselves and their understanding of the nuances of play.

[Mook]

1 minute ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Don't think anyone is saying that but rugby refs appear to get respect. Not because the players are a middle class and the fans are all named Hugo its is because they earn it with the way they conduct themselves and their understanding of the nuances of play.

 

I don't really care either way, I'm just sounding off.

 

Football was completely ruined for me in 2019 when they introduced this bollocks. I stopped going to watch Liverpool that summer & won't be back as it's getting worse rather than better. It is not the sport I fell in love with anymore.

[Poor Scouser T]

Just now, Mook said:

 

I don't really care either way, I'm just sounding off.

 

Football was completely ruined for me in 2019 when they introduced this bollocks. I stopped going to watch Liverpool that summer & won't be back as it's getting worse rather than better. It is not the sport I fell in love with anymore.

I get where you are coming from and in a way I agree however where we disagree is on the fundamental implementation of VAR. In essence there is nothing wrong with it. I may be wrong but I cannot recall a single issue in the CL or WC. It is not the tech it is the protocol of use and the muppets that operate it here that is the issue.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

18 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Hope all this shit doesn't become a distraction for us. The Brighton game on Sunday will be a difficult one, especially after they were humiliated by Villa last weekend. 

I trust Klopp and the players with that.  The only distraction will be the uncertainty over Jones's availability.

[Mook]

14 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

I get where you are coming from and in a way I agree however where we disagree is on the fundamental implementation of VAR. In essence there is nothing wrong with it. I may be wrong but I cannot recall a single issue in the CL or WC. It is not the tech it is the protocol of use and the muppets that operate it here that is the issue.

 

There are supporters all over the World who are against it.

 

It has fundamentally changed the way we celebrate goals and enjoy the game. Blaming the officials is the same as blaming bad dog owners when a pit bull mauls a toddler. Take the dogs & VAR away & the problem is solved, the idiots can't use them.

[VladimirIlyich]

18 hours ago, Poor Scouser T said:

I think this would make corruption even more likely. Would you want Italian officials ruling on prem games? The betting syndicates would have a field day. It needs closer direct accountability and oversight not distance.

The Italian officials would just reverse everything!

[JustTosh]

51 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Hope all this shit doesn't become a distraction for us. The Brighton game on Sunday will be a difficult one, especially after they were humiliated by Villa last weekend. 

The Liverpool game on Sunday will be a difficult one for Brighton, especially after we were humiliated by VAR last weekend.

 

 

[Poor Scouser T]

23 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

The Italian officials would just reverse everything!

Linesmen would have white flags.

[DaveT]

54 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Don't think anyone is saying that but rugby refs appear to get respect. Not because the players are a middle class and the fans are all named Hugo its is because they earn it with the way they conduct themselves and their understanding of the nuances of play.

Spot on. In an Everton game recently the defensive wall encroached over the white line. The opposition complained to the ref who responded by drawing another white line in front of the wall which was now only about 8 yards away! Why would anyone respect a ref who was so unable to impose his authority?!

[Bob]

1 hour ago, Mook said:

 

I don't really care either way, I'm just sounding off.

 

Football was completely ruined for me in 2019 when they introduced this bollocks. I stopped going to watch Liverpool that summer & won't be back as it's getting worse rather than better. It is not the sport I fell in love with anymore.

You lucky bastard. I’ve yet to pluck up the courage so I still go, but I don’t enjoy it like I used to.

[Bob]

2 minutes ago, DaveT said:

Spot on. In an Everton game recently the defensive wall encroached over the white line. The opposition complained to the ref who responded by drawing another white line in front of the wall which was now only about 8 yards away! Why would anyone respect a ref who was so unable to impose his authority?!

That’s no what happened. The new line was for the two attackers who wanted to stand in the wall and aren’t allowed to anymore so have to stand a yard away. 
 

the players initially were annoyed thinking what you described had happened, then you see them laugh as they realise as it’s explained, and the original defensive wall were made to step back behind the original line at the same time.

 

looked exactly like what you’ve said for a second or two, but ultimately wasn’t.

[Mook]

15 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

You lucky bastard. I’ve yet to pluck up the courage so I still go, but I don’t enjoy it like I used to.

 

It's saved me a few grand and I tend not to spend days fizzing about bad results anymore so pros and cons.

 

It was an easy decision for me to make.

[Jose Jones]

If they’re going to have it, there should just be two challenges per match from the manager when he thinks there has been an egregious error, like a missed offside, or stupid red card.
Then a separate review team who are not related to the ref in any way, make a quick adjudication.

It would get rid of the terrible errors and most matches would never get used.

[DaveT]

16 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

That’s no what happened. The new line was for the two attackers who wanted to stand in the wall and aren’t allowed to anymore so have to stand a yard away. 
 

the players initially were annoyed thinking what you described had happened, then you see them laugh as they realise as it’s explained, and the original defensive wall were made to step back behind the original line at the same time.

 

looked exactly like what you’ve said for a second or two, but ultimately wasn’t.

I stand corrected, but the point about the current referees being totally incapable of engendering respect from players who constantly take the puss is still valid IMO.

[DaveT]

1 minute ago, DaveT said:

I stand corrected, but the point about the current referees being totally incapable of engendering respect from players who constantly take the puss is still valid IMO.

Puss! :) ‘Take the piss’ 

[VladimirIlyich]

1 minute ago, DaveT said:

Puss! :) ‘Take the piss’ 

'Pus' sounds better. A hankering wound filled with 'pus.'

[Fowlers God]

1 hour ago, Jose Jones said:

If they’re going to have it, there should just be two challenges per match from the manager when he thinks there has been an egregious error, like a missed offside, or stupid red card.
Then a separate review team who are not related to the ref in any way, make a quick adjudication.

It would get rid of the terrible errors and most matches would never get used.

100% this. 

 

I would extend it to two per half and go with the onfield decision at everything else and the Captain/Manager has to state what the review is for. 

 

i.e Virgil scores from a corner in the last min of first half and a Manager of the opposing team cant just go- I am reviewing this. 

They would need to say. 

I believe a player took out the GK and allowed the goal to stand. 

VAR Can this be checked. 

 

Not reviewing the goal and they go back 20 phases of play to find out a reason why,.

 

Just stick to the 3 officials on the pitch and let Captains/Managers review something if they want to. 

[Evelyn Tentions]

4 hours ago, Mudface said:

 

My favourite one from him-

 

 

Only allowing captains to talk to the referee would be a good change.

Supposedly an edict announced before the season. As with flashing imaginary cards, it's now been forgotten about.