Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Kevin D]

For some reason Noam Chomsky has trouble understanding what a vicious anti-semite Corbyn is:

 

https://progressive.international/wire/2020-10-31-we-stand-with-jeremy-corbyn/en

 

 

 

 

We, members of the Progressive International, stand with Jeremy Corbyn as a genuine internationalist and inspiration to progressive forces around the world.

 

Jeremy Corbyn has been a champion of decency and an ally to all movements fighting racism, colonialism, and exploitation.

 

As leader of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn not only spoke out about the ills of anti-Semitism in British society broadly. He also took the issue of anti-Semitism in his own party seriously, listening to the concerns of Jewish constituents and improving the process for investigating and sanctioning cases of anti-Semitism.

 

As fierce opponents of anti-Semitism — and as an International that includes many Jewish members across the planet — we abhor the weaponization of Jewish pain against the project of socialism and the legacy of Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership in the United Kingdom.

 

The evidence of such efforts to weaponize the issue of anti-Semitism is clear. The majority of the British public now believe that a third of Labour Party members — a full 200,000 people — are the subject of anti-Semitism allegations. The truth is less than 2,000, less than 0.3 per cent of the party.

 

The campaign against the character of Jeremy Corbyn did not begin with the issue of anti-Semitism, and it will not end here. A principled defence of the Jewish community demands that we distinguish between genuine appreciation of the community's pain and cynical attempts to ride it toward political reaction.

 

We, members of the Progressive International, know that Jeremy Corbyn is under attack because of his life-long fight to transform Britain, to dismantle empire, and to defend the rights to care, peace, and freedom.

 

We, members of the Progressive International, stand united in the defence of Jeremy Corbyn, in defence of decency, and for the future of socialism in Britain and around the world.

Signatories

Alicia Castro
Former Ambassador of Argentina and Trade Union leader

Noam Chomsky
Laureate Professor of Linguistics, University of Arizona

Nikhil Dey
Founder-Member of Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS)

Srećko Horvat
Co-Founder, DiEM25

Scott Ludlam
Former Senator, Australian Greens

John McDonnell
Member of Parliament for Hayes and Harlington

Vijay Prashad
Director of the Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research

Aruna Roy
Founder-Member, Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS)

Pierre Sané
Founder-President, Imagine Africa Institute

Ahdaf Soueif
Author, Founder of Palestinian Festival of Literature

Yanis Varoufakis
Member of the Hellenic Parliament and the Secretary-General of MeRA25

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, Kevin D said:

For some reason Noam Chomsky has trouble understanding what a vicious anti-semite Corbyn is:

 

https://progressive.international/wire/2020-10-31-we-stand-with-jeremy-corbyn/en

 

 

 

 

We, members of the Progressive International, stand with Jeremy Corbyn as a genuine internationalist and inspiration to progressive forces around the world.

 

Jeremy Corbyn has been a champion of decency and an ally to all movements fighting racism, colonialism, and exploitation.

 

As leader of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn not only spoke out about the ills of anti-Semitism in British society broadly. He also took the issue of anti-Semitism in his own party seriously, listening to the concerns of Jewish constituents and improving the process for investigating and sanctioning cases of anti-Semitism.

 

As fierce opponents of anti-Semitism — and as an International that includes many Jewish members across the planet — we abhor the weaponization of Jewish pain against the project of socialism and the legacy of Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership in the United Kingdom.

 

The evidence of such efforts to weaponize the issue of anti-Semitism is clear. The majority of the British public now believe that a third of Labour Party members — a full 200,000 people — are the subject of anti-Semitism allegations. The truth is less than 2,000, less than 0.3 per cent of the party.

 

The campaign against the character of Jeremy Corbyn did not begin with the issue of anti-Semitism, and it will not end here. A principled defence of the Jewish community demands that we distinguish between genuine appreciation of the community's pain and cynical attempts to ride it toward political reaction.

 

We, members of the Progressive International, know that Jeremy Corbyn is under attack because of his life-long fight to transform Britain, to dismantle empire, and to defend the rights to care, peace, and freedom.

 

We, members of the Progressive International, stand united in the defence of Jeremy Corbyn, in defence of decency, and for the future of socialism in Britain and around the world.

Signatories

Alicia Castro
Former Ambassador of Argentina and Trade Union leader

Noam Chomsky
Laureate Professor of Linguistics, University of Arizona

Nikhil Dey
Founder-Member of Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS)

Srećko Horvat
Co-Founder, DiEM25

Scott Ludlam
Former Senator, Australian Greens

John McDonnell
Member of Parliament for Hayes and Harlington

Vijay Prashad
Director of the Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research

Aruna Roy
Founder-Member, Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS)

Pierre Sané
Founder-President, Imagine Africa Institute

Ahdaf Soueif
Author, Founder of Palestinian Festival of Literature

Yanis Varoufakis
Member of the Hellenic Parliament and the Secretary-General of MeRA25

I think it's becoming clear the Labour hierarchy have blundered here. The main unions have also put out a letter asking for Corbyn to be reinstated. 

[Gnasher]

34 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I think it's becoming clear the Labour hierarchy have blundered here. The main unions have also put out a letter asking for Corbyn to be reinstated. 

More shit on the horizon 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/01/keir-starmer-accused-starting-labour-civil-war-corbyn-suspension-antisemitism

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

None of it matters. It’s just a few people saying things. It’s just the old guard sticking together. If something real happens, like he is kicked out, then they break away... that is a real thing. It’ll destroy them, but it’s a real thing. Right now it’s what needed to happen so this shit could start to heal. I personally hope he just steps down, but he won’t. 

[Section_31]

8 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

More shit on the horizon 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/01/keir-starmer-accused-starting-labour-civil-war-corbyn-suspension-antisemitism

 

 

Don't see how, he's been getting grief from day one. Corbyn loyalists trash him all day, every day on blogs and twitter and in meetings, McClusky has pulled money, and this was before any of it. He had nothing to lose by taking the step he did.

[Rico1304]

I’m sure all the Labour voters who went over the Tories are heavily swayed by (checks the letter) an ex-ambassador from Argentina and a cofounder of Diem25.  It’s probably just what they’ve been waiting for.  

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I’m sure all the Labour voters who went over the Tories are heavily swayed by (checks the letter) an ex-ambassador from Argentina and a cofounder of Diem25.  It’s probably just what they’ve been waiting for.  

Yeah they spend their nights worrying about Margret Hodge receiving abusive messages on Twitter. That's the issue that concerns them.

[Kevin D]

4 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

I’m sure all the Labour voters who went over the Tories are heavily swayed by (checks the letter) an ex-ambassador from Argentina and a cofounder of Diem25.  It’s probably just what they’ve been waiting for.  

 

Is it also possible that people trying to assess the veracity of Corbyn's hatred of Jews might be swayed by learning the greatest Jewish intellectual alive today - according to the New York Times - reckons it is an absolute crock of shit?

[Gnasher]

5 hours ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

None of it matters. It’s just a few people saying things. It’s just the old guard sticking together. If something real happens, like he is kicked out, then they break away... that is a real thing. It’ll destroy them, but it’s a real thing. Right now it’s what needed to happen so this shit could start to heal. I personally hope he just steps down, but he won’t. 

The seven unions who have signed a petition are the fabric that funds the party. As for individuals I doubt very much if they will leave either but that's up to them.

[Gnasher]

They're not going anywhere 

 

https://labourlist.org/2020/10/exclusive-unions-release-joint-statement-on-labour-suspension-of-corbyn/?amp&__twitter_impression=true

[Rico1304]

7 hours ago, Kevin D said:

 

Is it also possible that people trying to assess the veracity of Corbyn's hatred of Jews might be swayed by learning the greatest Jewish intellectual alive today - according to the New York Times - reckons it is an absolute crock of shit?

So the people who worship him will embrace it, the people who don’t won’t take the slightest bit of notice. Or more likely won’t even know of the letters existence. Pissing in the wind. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

If they are trying to assess Corbyn in the light of this new report, they might well notice that the letter from Chomsky and the boys doesn’t mention anything about the findings, anything about his response, or anything about Starmer’s actions. Of course Corbyn isn’t some massive Jew hating mentalist. The report, which is independent and from a credible group of people, found that he was responsible for a party where serious leadership failures resulted in unlawful harassment, discrimination, and political interference. His response to that was to reject those findings and say the scale of the problem was overstated. No, a load of the claims of him being an antisemitic nut job were overstated, but that shouldn’t be mixed up with the findings of the report. The report, by no stretch of imagination, is the ‘weaponisation of antisemitism’. The party’s action in suspending Corbyn until a review is not a ‘weaponisation of Jewish pain’. There has, in my view, clearly been a weaponisation of antisemitism in the fight against Corbyn but let’s not pretend there aren’t other issues. 

[Gnasher]

12 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

Don't see how, he's been getting grief from day one. Corbyn loyalists trash him all day, every day on blogs and twitter and in meetings, McClusky has pulled money, and this was before any of it. He had nothing to lose by taking the step he did.

I think hes got a lot to lose, divided party's rarely win elections, it's not just McClusky its six other unions now. Also if the Labour mps who disagree simply walk away as Numero suggests then bitter and public by elections may be fought pitting Labour v Labour, which if occured would be a disaster.

[skend04]

People undermining Corbyn = bad.

Corbyn undermining yet another Labour leader = he's not a racist because Noam Chomsky wrote a letter. 

 

He's got form for being a duplicitous little so and so, yet he's almost beatified whilst achieving nothing in his career. Not a single piece of legislation has passed with his name on despite "being a Labour member since I was 16". Why he's so idolised when the current government is in, in no small part down to his leadership, is beyond me.

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I think hes got a lot to lose, divided party's rarely win elections, it's not just McClusky its six other unions now. Also if the Labour mps who disagree simply walk away as Numero suggests then bitter and public by elections may be fought pitting Labour v Labour, which if occured would be a disaster.

The unions are hardly spoiled for choice. They’re run by old Labour and they’re pissed that Corbyn got suspended. It’s not for them to interfere in Labour Party procedure. It’s up to them if they want to give funds, but they need to be careful because they represent a lot of people. There’s going to be varying views in the group they represent too. If MPs walk away to form a small new party, representing those views that were crushed last time around, and the unions jump ship to them, then those unions will likely split too. No longer will it be about pooling together to get influence over one of the major parties. There’s a reason they don’t pay all their subs to the SWP. It’s all just BS because Corbyn has been suspended. If he gets kicked out then it’ll be time to look again. But even then, it’s all about one guy. If he stays there’s unlikely to be any split. So, for now, it’s all hot air. I’d call a lot of bluffs over this. Because the choice is this, get inside or leave and get crushed. For the unions it’s represented by one of the two parties that can win or throw money down the drain. 
 

Anyway, it’ll all blow over with him not being booted. If he does, then we will see. 

[Kevin D]

1 hour ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

If they are trying to assess Corbyn in the light of this new report, they might well notice that the letter from Chomsky and the boys doesn’t mention anything about the findings, anything about his response, or anything about Starmer’s actions. Of course Corbyn isn’t some massive Jew hating mentalist. The report, which is independent and from a credible group of people, found that he was responsible for a party where serious leadership failures resulted in unlawful harassment, discrimination, and political interference. His response to that was to reject those findings and say the scale of the problem was overstated. No, a load of the claims of him being an antisemitic nut job were overstated, but that shouldn’t be mixed up with the findings of the report. The report, by no stretch of imagination, is the ‘weaponisation of antisemitism’. The party’s action in suspending Corbyn until a review is not a ‘weaponisation of Jewish pain’. There has, in my view, clearly been a weaponisation of antisemitism in the fight against Corbyn but let’s not pretend there aren’t other issues. 

 

Numero, is it fair to call them an impartial body as things like this are ongoing:

 

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

I think hes got a lot to lose, divided party's rarely win elections, it's not just McClusky its six other unions now. Also if the Labour mps who disagree simply walk away as Numero suggests then bitter and public by elections may be fought pitting Labour v Labour, which if occured would be a disaster.

So you are willing to risk all that on one man? #notacult

[AngryOfTuebrook]

14 hours ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

Right now it’s what needed to happen so this shit could start to heal. I personally hope he just steps down, but he won’t. 

Is this what healing feels like?

 

I would have thought that healing involved different parts of the Labour Party and different Jewish individuals and organisations finding some sort of common ground. All that has happened here is that Starmer seems to have thrown the weight of the party machinery firmly on one side of a pre-existing divide.

[Gnasher]

10 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

So you are willing to risk all that on one man? 

No.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Is this what healing feels like?

That very much depends on the ailment. Sometimes splinters have to be removed before the wound can heal. Sometimes surgery makes things feel worse before they get better. Either way, the root of the problem needs dealing with before any healing can happen. He needs to take back control, clean up the inherited mess, then go about planning for the future. 

[Section_31]

2 hours ago, skend04 said:

People undermining Corbyn = bad.

Corbyn undermining yet another Labour leader = he's not a racist because Noam Chomsky wrote a letter. 

 

He's got form for being a duplicitous little so and so, yet he's almost beatified whilst achieving nothing in his career. Not a single piece of legislation has passed with his name on despite "being a Labour member since I was 16". Why he's so idolised when the current government is in, in no small part down to his leadership, is beyond me.

I think you raise a good point there. Corbyn is like Sanders and (don't shoot) Trump in that he's a politician for people who don't like politicians and politics. If it was a presidential election he'd probably have more of a chance, certainly in 2017 he would have done. 

 

But as a Parliamentary operator he's seriously wanting, as you say, he's never achieved anything policy-wise as an MP, never been near the shadow front bench I don't think, wasn't particularly good (or seemingly that interested) in leading the PLP, he was more into the idea of a mass movement - nothing wrong with that, but it didn't pan out for whatever reason. 

 

People raging at Starmer are often doing so because they don't like what he represents, someone from 'the Parliamentary establishment' who seemingly is tying  to (re) build a party machine aimed at winning a general election. 

 

Whether he does or not remains to be seen, but for my money that's the fundamental difference between them. 

[sir roger]

He offered to heal, but seems more like he is looking at amputation.

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I would have thought that healing involved different parts of the Labour Party and different Jewish individuals and organisations finding some sort of common ground.

What fantasy world is this. It has been tried. Corbyn failed at doing that and when he tries this, it was shown that he was responsible for a party of unlawful harassment and discrimination. No, singing kumbaya isn’t going to work any more. Certainly not if the one needed to show some remorse and contrition disputes the findings and says it’s overblown and doesn’t apologise. No. Those responsible need dealing with, those who talk of breaking away need to be brought to heel or getting rid of. Make no mistake, this is Corbyn and his team’s mess. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, Kevin D said:

 

Numero, is it fair to call them an impartial body as things like this are ongoing:

 

Wasn’t that some bullshit about a donation to a friend in 2013 that was declared twice instead of once. Nobody serious suggests that EHRC isn’t impartial. 

[cloggypop]

4 minutes ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

Wasn’t that some bullshit about a donation to a friend in 2013 that was declared twice instead of once. Nobody serious suggests that EHRC isn’t impartial. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/01/jeremy-corbyn-questions-impartiality-ehrc-conducting-antisemitism-inquiry