Paris shootings

[mattyq]

Possibly at the expense of everyone else.

And then you look at China being so fair and generous 

Was the Marshall Plan an altruistic gift to rescue a broken and ravaged Europe or a hard headed decision to rebuild prime American markets?

[VladimirIlyich]

Ah, Pilger.

 

I gave it a go but he lost me with this drivel  "Behind the lie, there was serious purpose. Yugoslavia was a uniquely independent, multi-ethnic federation that had stood as a political and economic bridge in the Cold War. Most of its utilities and major manufacturing was publicly owned. This was not acceptable to the expanding European Community, especially newly united Germany, which had begun a drive east to capture its "natural market" in the Yugoslav provinces of Croatia and Slovenia. By the time the Europeans met at Maastricht in 1991 to lay their plans for the disastrous eurozone, a secret deal had been struck; Germany would recognise Croatia. Yugoslavia was doomed."

 

Here is my RP-like contribution from FT, on how ISIS set up their oil operation as a state-owned company to finance jihad and how it still runs uninterrupted.

 

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/b8234932-719b-11e5-ad6d-f4ed76f0900a.html#axzz3rZEB7fsi

The bold part is the key and if you are going to write off the opinions of a man who has been everywhere and reported it based on a single sentence or paragraph then you are as bigoted as the rest of us.

 

I dont need to be told about ISIS,they are barbaric murderous cunts, they exist because of the west and will continue to exist as long as the US need them to exist and when they dont they will just reinvent themselves under some other acronym or guise. 

While the western governments continue to give them the oxygen to recruit,grow and get richer,they will continue to do so and things like the London bombings,the Madrid train bombings,9/11,the Paris Shootings,Tunisian beach slaughters,will not become as rare as they are now.

 

Our meddlings in the Middle East,and slaughter,has turned every road,street,factory,wine bar,shopping centre in the world into into a battlefield.

[SasaS]

I agree on the meddling in the ME, re Pilger, this article lost me as a reader, as in, when you read something which is an ideological construct without much support in reality, you tend to lose faith he knows what he is talking about in the rest of the article.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Some humans are cunts, that is all.

 

Fixed it.

 

The overwhelming majority of people are sound for the overwhelming majority of their lives.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Ah, Pilger.

 

I gave it a go but he lost me with this drivel  "Behind the lie, there was serious purpose. Yugoslavia was a uniquely independent, multi-ethnic federation that had stood as a political and economic bridge in the Cold War. Most of its utilities and major manufacturing was publicly owned. This was not acceptable to the expanding European Community, especially newly united Germany, which had begun a drive east to capture its "natural market" in the Yugoslav provinces of Croatia and Slovenia. By the time the Europeans met at Maastricht in 1991 to lay their plans for the disastrous eurozone, a secret deal had been struck; Germany would recognise Croatia. Yugoslavia was doomed."

 

That's a part of recent history that I've never really studied enough to get any clear understanding.  What was Yugoslavia like under Tito? Were the people only kept from tearing each other apart by his iron rule, or had they really found a way to peaceful coexistence?  Also, when the shit did hit the fan, what sparked it - and what was the fuel that the sparks ignited?  And what was the real reason for Blair & Clinton's "humanitarian intervention"?  I've read various bits of Pilger or articles in Socialist Worker, etc, which just state it as a given that there were some unstated nefarious reasons for that intervention, written to address an audience who have already been convinced of this "fact".  But I've never actually read anyone setting out a clear, fact-based argument of why the West bombed Serbia.

 

Can anyone point me towards any good reading?

[mattyq]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Fall-Yugoslavia-Misha-Glenny/dp/014026101X/ref=pd_sim_14_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=51tE%2BF-l3dL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR101%2C160_&refRID=19C1APN9YDSR7XVAHAC7

 

Excellent read

[Rotpeter]

Humans are cunts, that is all.

 

Learnt nothing from antiquity to present day.

 

I have been to Flanders you think row on row on row for a bit of Belgian farm land would have clued people up?

 

You think dropping an A bomb and vapourizing tens of thousands would clue people up?

 

How aboot 800,000 Rwandans being hacked to death?

 

We are supposed to be enlightened but all we are doing is reliving The Crusades and Spanish Inquisition, just with Internets and better tools of death.

 

No one can get along because we are crabs in a bucket.

 

I would rather live under a benevolent dictorship or even a monarchy than a democracy. Democracy has failed, freedom is a fools line fed to us to keep us from actually overthrowing the cunts that make decisions that have fuckec up this world.

 

War on Drugs, War on Terror.

LOL!

You're in good company there, Nietzsche's critique of democracy was exactly that. A levelling down process that created people that would look the other way.

[Strontium]

Bullshit, some of the attackers will be French too, will you be treating the population of France in the same disdain you would immigrants/refugees?

 

Wasn't one of the Syrian passports proven to be fake? or both even?

 

What disdain for immigrants and refugees?

 

As I have said before, I am militantly pro-immigration. I have donated to folk helping the current wave of refugees.

 

Pointing out the simple fact that extremists could embed and, indeed, have embedded themselves within the refugee population is not "disdain", merely an observation of reality.

 

You can invent all the disdain you want, it just demonstrates further your total wrongness.

[BCM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goks2ep1F5k&feature=youtu.be

[dennis tooth]

What disdain for immigrants and refugees?

 

As I have said before, I am militantly pro-immigration. I have donated to folk helping the current wave of refugees.

 

Pointing out the simple fact that extremists could embed and, indeed, have embedded themselves within the refugee population is not "disdain", merely an observation of reality.

 

You can invent all the disdain you want, it just demonstrates further your total wrongness.

Given at least 3 of 7 are french your glee in being able to link the attack to refugees is a sick minded act of a pure idiot Id say even 1 would have dismantled your argument. Then using the claim youve given the buggers money it entitles you to help create a climate of them being now treated like jews in nazi era germany which is irresponsible or cuntery of the lowest kind.

[BCM]

The Associated Press ‏@AP 57s58 seconds ago

The latest: French officials say man, a probable attacker, on the run after Paris attacks: http://apne.ws/1NUvGRA

[Bjornebye]

What disdain for immigrants and refugees?

 

As I have said before, I am militantly pro-immigration. I have donated to folk helping the current wave of refugees.

 

Pointing out the simple fact that extremists could embed and, indeed, have embedded themselves within the refugee population is not "disdain", merely an observation of reality.

 

You can invent all the disdain you want, it just demonstrates further your total wrongness.

 

Ever thought of donating a few quid to the kids in Palestine ? Or are you just going to continue to ignore the fact that your beloved Israel is killing innocent people every single day. You can't be a 'selective humanitarian'. People are either cunts or they aren't.

 

If Isla Nublar was renamed Cunt Island, you'd be the fucking t-rex. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Regarding this incident, I'm thinking it's right to say that there's still no categorical evidence that proves beyond all reasonable doubt that any of the attackers embedded themselves with refugees to travel to Europe?

[Bjornebye]

To be fair to Stronts, it is very likely that a shit load of refugees are isis. It's not like they didn't tell us they were going to come over. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

To be fair to Stronts, it is very likely that a shit load of refugees are isis. It's not like they didn't tell us they were going to come over.

Indeed they did. They did that to promote fear. And if they can try to make it look like one of the attackers made it to Europe from Syria, whether that be the case or not, it helps to amplify the sense of fear which is part of their way of operating.

 

They want to commit violent atrocities. But, they also want to create fear too. Anything that can help reinforce their claim of gangs of Jihadists travelling with refugees helps to amplify the sense of fear.

 

But, I'm not jumping the gun yet. Best to deal with fully established facts over speculation.

[Stickman]

Special service regarding the terrible events taking place at Notre Dame tonight....I hope no idiot turns up with the hump....

[aRdja]

Interesting reading this;

 

http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath

[Dave D]

Humans are cunts, that is all.

Learnt nothing from antiquity to present day.

I have been to Flanders you think row on row on row for a bit of Belgian farm land would have clued people up?

You think dropping an A bomb and vapourizing tens of thousands would clue people up?

How aboot 800,000 Rwandans being hacked to death?

We are supposed to be enlightened but all we are doing is reliving The Crusades and Spanish Inquisition, just with Internets and better tools of death.

No one can get along because we are crabs in a bucket.

I would rather live under a benevolent dictorship or even a monarchy than a democracy. Democracy has failed, freedom is a fools line fed to us to keep us from actually overthrowing the cunts that make decisions that have fuckec up this world.

War on Drugs, War on Terror.

LOL!

 

War on "LOL"

[SasaS]

That's a part of recent history that I've never really studied enough to get any clear understanding.  What was Yugoslavia like under Tito? Were the people only kept from tearing each other apart by his iron rule, or had they really found a way to peaceful coexistence?  Also, when the shit did hit the fan, what sparked it - and what was the fuel that the sparks ignited?  And what was the real reason for Blair & Clinton's "humanitarian intervention"?  I've read various bits of Pilger or articles in Socialist Worker, etc, which just state it as a given that there were some unstated nefarious reasons for that intervention, written to address an audience who have already been convinced of this "fact".  But I've never actually read anyone setting out a clear, fact-based argument of why the West bombed Serbia.

 

 

Yes and no, there is a history of inter-ethnic hatred (it exploded in spectacular fashion during WWII), but there was zero tolerance on the part of the authorities for nationalists (Croats, Serbs), and the regime maintained balance between its component parts; unlike USSR, Yugoslavia was a true federal state, in that it wasn't Serbia dominated as much as USSR was an extended Russia. Tito was an undisputed leader, but he also had a lot of popular support, large parts of the personality cult didn't need to be manufactured or forcibly maintained.  

The problem was that the country lost is raison d'etre by 1990, as with the collapse of the communist rule, there was no force to keep it together apart from the army.

 

What sparked it was Serbia's attempt to tip the scale in its favor, as the most populous republic, by using the Kosovo situation inspired Serb ethnic revival movement from 1987 - 1989, backed by Slobodan Milosevic who was not a true nationalist, but mostly rode the wave to strengthen his grip on power in Serbia. This in turn fanned the flames of similar ethnic revival movements in other republics 1989 - 1991 as a hostile reaction to Serbia, which then further radicalized ethnic Serb minorities in Croatia (12 percent) and Bosnia and Herzegovina (where they are one of the three ethnic groups, about 33 percent).

 

After Slovenia and Croatia declared independence in 1991, Serbia sponsored the uprising of ethnic minorities first in Croatia and from 1992 on in Bosnia in an attempt to create some kind of Serbia dominated rump Yugoslavia or a greater Serbia, also most of the disintegrating federal army sided with Serbia and than transformed into armies of Croatia Serbs, Bosnia Serbs and Serbia and Montenegro. It was similar to what Russia is doing in the pro-Russian parts of the Ukraine, even the propaganda is very much alike.

[Gym Beglin]

European finals are going to be concerning.

 

Be a bit distasteful for games to go to shootouts.

[Gnasher]

The Muslim a couple of doors down from me's dog been barking and wagging his tail out the back garden all weekend, the isis mutt is fucking revelling in it.

 

 

 

The authorities have been informed.

 

 

 

Update on the Muslim dog. Phoned the relevant anti terrorism units about this wag tailed isis fucker (MI5,local dog warden ) they coming round soon to sort the terrorist mutt out.

 

Just hope it all ends safely.

[niallers]

Rumours of another attack in Paris at the moment,according to sky news. I stress rumours! Gun shots at place de republique is the rumour.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Rumours of another attack in Paris at the moment,according to sky news. I stress rumours! Gun shots at place de republique is the rumour.

They were live on Sky and C4 and there were lots of sirens.

 

Reports of a false alarm.

[FanchesterCity]

If they 'pretended' to be refugees - so what? are we to say no to refugees?

If they walked is as tourists - so what? do we ban tourism?

If they were natural born Frenchmen - so what?

 

There's nothing to be learned about preventing / minimising terrorism from the technique they used to get into France. Seriously, you get through virtually any mainland European border if you're a loner or in a very small, determined group. Not every square inch of border is covered!

 

When it was the London bombings we were supposedly staggered that our own could do something like that. When it's a foreigner, we're supposed to be staggered that they are allowed in (as though we let them in knowing their true purpose). It's all about finger pointing and arse covering at this stage, not to mention some political opportunism - 'who is to blame?' 

 

There's only one group to blame - the perpetrators. 

[Curly]

No surprises Rico negged this post, did I hit a nerve you wannabe middle class Tory cunt?

 

Doesn't the snooper's charter help keep us protected against these sorts of incidents? We've avoided at least 6 major attacks as it is. Surely you can see benefit in what it could be used for?