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Should the UK remain a member of the EU

  

307 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the UK remain a member of the EU

    • Yes
      250
    • No
      57


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Because you get someone no matter what happens. Choosing the least worst option is always better than getting the worst. Who cares if you can say "I didn't vote for him"? We live in a country that unfortunately operates a FPTP system. Your vote isn't always about who you want in, but who you need to keep out.

 

Exactly,  No time whatsoever for people that don't vote, 

I get the disillusion with politics bit but not voting is an empty gesture, Engaging with politicians and political parties to get your voice heard is the answer . It might be hard and slow but its the only way, The alternative is to create a vacuum which then gets filled by populists offering simple solutions to complex problems . Farage is a prime example, Blames all our ills on migration, creates mayhem and irreparable damage by tipping the scales to leave the EU then fucks of with his German passport to suck Trumps pecker to live the dream in Washington 

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Exactly, No time whatsoever for people that don't vote,

I get the disillusion with politics bit but not voting is an empty gesture, Engaging with politicians and political parties to get your voice heard is the answer . It might be hard and slow but its the only way, The alternative is to create a vacuum which then gets filled by populists offering simple solutions to complex problems . Farage is a prime example, Blames all our ills on migration, creates mayhem and irreparable damage by tipping the scales to leave the EU then fucks of with his German passport to suck Trumps pecker to live the dream in Washington

I actually often don't vote as I work away a lot. But my ward always returns labour by a landslide and I'm actually the example of where my vote literally doesn't count no matter who I voted for - I would vote labour, but Steve Rotherham is home and hosed without my help! But I don't not vote because I don't like either, if it was a genuine race, I would always vote, because you have to make a choice.

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I actually often don't vote as I work away a lot. But my ward always returns labour by a landslide and I'm actually the example of where my vote literally doesn't count no matter who I voted for - I would vote labour, but Steve Rotherham is home and hosed without my help! But I don't not vote because I don't like either, if it was a genuine race, I would always vote, because you have to make a choice.

I don't vote in elections either. If a tory was anywhere near getting in where I lived I would be down there first thing in the morning.

 

I don't really have anyone to vote for.

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I too live in safe Labour seat but still vote,  I think its important to boost the popular vote and low turnouts are bad for the democratic process.

It gives oxygen to populists as I posted earlier. Everyone needs to use their vote, they do matter even in FPTP election,   

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I used to think we have a civic duty or that voting was part of democracy but that is almost a ploy to validate that your vote has substance. 

 

If I had my way there would be an option for none of the above, with consequences. So if none of the above wins their is no government. I think none of the above can win in Spain. They need to do something. I notice in Brazil none of the above got close to 20%. You do wonder if we had that in the UK or the USA how that would play out

 

 

Politicians are now less trusted than estate agents, bankers and journalists. In 1986, one in ten Britons said that they almost never trust the government. In 2012, that figure had risen to one in three. Young Britons in particular are cynical about politicians’ trustworthiness, less likely to feel an affiliation to a political party, less likely to think voting is a duty, and least likely to vote.

In 1964, 18–24-year-olds voted in the same proportions as the over-65s. In 2010, 44 per cent of 18–24-year-olds voted compared to 74 per cent of Britons over 55 years old. As Figure 1 below shows, the gap in turnout between young and older voters in the UK is now the largest in the OECD.

 

This isn’t due to apathy. Young people are concerned about social issues and want to have a positive impact. But they are disillusioned with the political system and the political class. Instead of looking to traditional politics, they are looking to have an impact through their career choices, by starting social enterprises or businesses, or supporting social media campaigns.

Many reforms are put forward for reengaging younger generations with the act of voting: improved political education, electoral reform, votes at 16, online voting, and even compulsory first time voting.

But another reform should be considered before all of these: adding a formal protest vote to the ballot in the form of ‘none of the above’.

A ‘none of the above’ option on the ballot paper could motivate disillusioned citizens to take part in the act of voting – without compulsion. It could exert a new kind of pressure on the political parties and candidates, forcing them to see, in hard cold numbers, the degree of frustration in their own constituency. It could deflate support levels of fringe, populist parties.

It could become especially popular as a rebellious option for younger voters: allowing them to participate in the system, but changing the terms of reference and giving greater emphasis to new forms of activism. None of the above could be a strong electoral expression of many young people’s current attitude towards politics.

476_1503_-_fig1.png

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The Tories are utterly clueless as to what to do in the face of growing realisation that Brexit is a huge mistake.

Expect we will see much more evidence like this leaking out 

 

British government realises Brexit is a mistake, official says John Callinan claims London is aware that leaving the EU is an ‘act of great self-harm’
Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 01:00  Updated: Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 12:27
Ruadhán Mac Cormaic Foreign Affairs Correspondent
image.jpg

The British government is slowly realising Brexit is ‘an act of great self-harm’, the State’s top Brexit official has said. File photograph: Daniel Leal-Olivas/AFP/Getty Images

 

The British government is slowly realising Brexit is “an act of great self-harm” and that upcoming EU-UK negotiations must seek to limit the damage, the State’s top Brexit official has said.

The official, John Callinan, said on Thursday: “I see signs in the contacts that we’re having, both at EU level and with the UK, of a gradual realisation that Brexit in many ways is an act of great self-harm, and that the focus now is on minimising that self-harm.”

The remarks by Mr Callinan, the second secretary-general at the Department of the Taoiseach, were delivered at a Brexit seminar organised by the trade unions Impact and Siptu.

Mr Callinan also highlighted the existence of internal divisions on the British side just weeks out from the start of formal withdrawal negotiations with the EU, saying it was clear there was “no single, settled position” on Brexit in London.

“Even within the British government, there are very different views,” he said.

Mr Callinan, along with other Irish officials and Ministers, has been in regular contact with his British counterparts since the UK’s referendum on EU membership last June, in an effort to push key Dublin concerns to the top of the Brexit agenda.

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The Tories are utterly clueless as to what to do in the face of growing realisation that Brexit is a huge mistake.

Expect we will see much more evidence like this leaking out 

 

British government realises Brexit is a mistake, official says John Callinan claims London is aware that leaving the EU is an ‘act of great self-harm’
Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 01:00  Updated: Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 12:27
Ruadhán Mac Cormaic Foreign Affairs Correspondent
image.jpg

The British government is slowly realising Brexit is ‘an act of great self-harm’, the State’s top Brexit official has said. File photograph: Daniel Leal-Olivas/AFP/Getty Images

 

The British government is slowly realising Brexit is “an act of great self-harm” and that upcoming EU-UK negotiations must seek to limit the damage, the State’s top Brexit official has said.

The official, John Callinan, said on Thursday: “I see signs in the contacts that we’re having, both at EU level and with the UK, of a gradual realisation that Brexit in many ways is an act of great self-harm, and that the focus now is on minimising that self-harm.”

The remarks by Mr Callinan, the second secretary-general at the Department of the Taoiseach, were delivered at a Brexit seminar organised by the trade unions Impact and Siptu.

Mr Callinan also highlighted the existence of internal divisions on the British side just weeks out from the start of formal withdrawal negotiations with the EU, saying it was clear there was “no single, settled position” on Brexit in London.

“Even within the British government, there are very different views,” he said.

Mr Callinan, along with other Irish officials and Ministers, has been in regular contact with his British counterparts since the UK’s referendum on EU membership last June, in an effort to push key Dublin concerns to the top of the Brexit agenda.

 

 

 

Breaking news a member of the Irish government thinks that Britain leaving the EU is a bad idea.

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The Daily Express is beyond satire - screaming "Brexit Punishment" because those vindictive bastards in the EU want EU agencies to be based in the EU.  

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/792589/Brexit-European-Medicines-Agency-European-Banking-Agency-London-Brussels-EU

 

The loss of the London-based European Medicines Agency (EMA) and European Banking Authority (EBA) became inevitable after Britain voted to leave the EU because both are intrinsically linked to the single market.

 

But the decision to move so quickly after Theresa May began divorce proceeding by invoking Article 50 is seen by many as a sign of the uncompromising position being taken by EU diplomats. 

 

A number of capital cities are lining up to welcome both agencies and EU Council president Donald Tusk is expected to unveil the  selection criteria within the next two weeks.

 

The EMA and EBA each employ about 1,000 people, many of them British, and provide a hub for businesses in the UK. 

 

The EU’s chief negotiator hopes the agencies will know their new locations by June, although the process may take longer. 

 

Cities such as Dublin, Frankfurt, Milan, Amsterdam, Paris and Stockholm all want to play host to the agencies which are considered as among the EU’s crown jewels.

 

It has also emerged that Britain has failed convince any of the remaining 27 member states that trade talks should get under way early.

 

Diplomats agreed with the European Commission’s decision to block any talks about a future comprehensive trade deal until the UK accepts its £60bn divorce bill and comes to a settlement on the rights of EU citizens.

 

Mrs May hoped hardline European council guidelines ruling out a trade deal within two years would have been toned during consultation with the member states. 

 

But EU sources claimed Britain’s aggressive approach to the talks, including threats of becoming a low-tax, low-regulation state unless it was given a good deal, had backfired. 

 

One Brussels insider told the Observer: “However realistic the threats were - or not - they were noticed.

 

“The future prosperity of the single market was challenged. That had an impact – it pushed people together.”

 

Another senior diplomat said any initial sympathy with Britain had fallen away in many capitals, because of the Government’s approach.

 

He said: “Of course, we want to protect trade with Britain, but maintaining the single market, keeping trade flowing there, is the priority, and so we will work through Michel Barnier.

 

“Britain used to be pragmatic. That doesn’t seem to be the case any more and we need to protect our interests.”

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From your article :

 

Separately a staff union, which claims 2,000 members, has written to the current European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, to criticise the appointment, which they say “can only provide further ammunition for populist and extremist europhobe propaganda”.

 

 

Looks like they were spot on.

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Breaking news a member of the Irish government thinks that Britain leaving the EU is a bad idea.

 

No , a senior Irish civil servant is saying the British government are in complete disarray over Brexit which I believe to be true, Carry on and make up your own story though, 

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Good job you never get any of those revolving-door shenanigans in Westminster.

I certainly haven't noticed Westminster staff complaining about it as the EU staff are in the article.
  • Upvote 1

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http://news.sky.com/story/george-osbornes-evening-standard-role-raises-potential-conflicts-of-interest-10805063

 

Chancellor-George-Osborne-007.jpg

 

Let's take his jobs in turn:

:: He's a speaker at the Washington Speaker's Bureau, where he has a lucrative contract to perform after-dinner speeches around the world

:: He's a chairman of the Northern Powerhouse Partnership (not an obvious position for the editor of London's biggest newspaper)

:: He's an advisor to the American fund management firm Blackrock. He's thought to be paid £650,000 a year (yes, you read that right) for working one day a week for the company (yes, you read that right as well)

:: He's a fellow at the McCain Institute, an American think tank

:: He will be (as of mid-May) the editor of London's Evening Standard newspaper

:: And oh yes ... he's (still) the MP for Tatton (a salary of £75,000 a year plus expenses).

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I'd prefer the right result to the right process every time.  

 

Especially when that process has been abused by those in power telling the ignorant what to think, so have the result stitched up every time.  I thought you were anti-establishment democracy anyway Den?

 

Seriously scary stuff right there. Fuck democracy so long as you get to choose who's in power.

 

You angling for a job at the EU? They share your views on 'the right result'.

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Seriously scary stuff right there. Fuck democracy so long as you get to choose who's in power.

 

You angling for a job at the EU? They share your views on 'the right result'.

So with the EU not angling for another referendum here it's the 'right result' for them?

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Seriously scary stuff right there. Fuck democracy so long as you get to choose who's in power.

 

You angling for a job at the EU? They share your views on 'the right result'.

 

 

it's not.  I'd prefer it if we had a true democracy.  You seem to be under the illusion that we live in a true democracy.  We don't.   So, given that the cards are now stacked so that the right wing has the best possible chance of winning every time, I'd rather see a mechanism whereby the social democrats have the best possible chance of winning every time.  

 

If you think that this country is more democratic than the EU, then as Mr Whitney Houston once put it, that's your prerogative.  

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The EU was a great idea in principle. Take the richest countries in Western Europe and create a single market with tariff free trade. It gave us more leverage on the world stage and made it easier to trade with other superpowers around the world as a collective. Where the EU failed was it's obsession with allowing in weaker and unstable economies to create a fiscal union of all the European states. It ended up enslaving Greece to austerity forever, the unemployment rates amongst young people in Greece and Spain are near 50%, the suicide rates have increased exponentially, the Italian banking crisis could force the Eurozone into economic crisis and the ones propping up the whole thing Germany are on the precipice of a banking crisis themselves.

 

The freedom of movement act has benefitted countries like Poland massively. Polish workers can earn much higher wages in the richer Western European countries and are granted a much higher quality of life here than in their homeland. Whereas the working classes in countries like the UK have seen their wages undercut, their job opportunities diminished, their workers rights eroded.... they lose out across the board.

 

Who does this benefit? It benefits the establishment and big business interests. Now for those that say the EU is protecting our employee rights, ask yourself this question what has the EU done to stop zero hour contracts in the UK? Also when Corbyn talks about nationalising the railways and the energy sector ask yourself who's trying to stop that (barre the Tories).....The EU. The EU wants privatisation and competition. Freedom of movement is all about competition in the labour force, it's not some 'kum ba yah' hippy directive to bring about peace and tolerance.

That last paragraph nails it.

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Even I accepted all this as true, which I don't, The evidence that EU migrants have depressed wages or taken jobs from Brits is flimsy, There is a lot of evidence that they have made a net contribution to the country's finances and in many cases filled vacancies that British workers wouldn't take. All this aside is there one iota of belief in prospect of the Tories improving the lot of the British workforce ? Left unopposed these cunts will destroy public services , further erode workers rights and benefit none but the rich . It was utter madness to leave the EU without a clear idea of what that meant to the vast majority of the population. Apart from the economics Brexit has given life -blood to racists and xenophobes which frankly I find disgusting.

Didn't think it'd be long before an eu fascist hysteric neurotic began a rant in response.

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The fact that eu migrants have made a net contribution to the countries finances is neither here nor there really it's just a statistical.

 

They very likely have made the country richer but it all depends where that wealth is going or who's pockets it's lining.

 

The rich getting richer while the poor are getting poorer.

 

Aren't we living in austerity Britain yet the countries getting so much wealthier because of the EU.

 

During the last recession the only businesses that were doing well we're the businesses that tailored to the high end such as rolls Royce etc.

Austerity is an eu thing get it into your head.

No they aren't making a net contribution that's a myth, you have to factor in a lot more than gets factored in when they do the sums in that. An explosion of stagnant wages as no one gets a pay rise as employers can get a polish man to work on minimum wage for one thing.

A citizen in the dole cos they can't get a job. Polish man sending his wage home not in local economy. Etc

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Nobody is arguing that the EU would be the saviour of the NHS. That'd be daft.

 

Toothy is arguing that the EU are driving NHS privatisation. He's wrong.

 

EU Member States are free to determine their own healthcare policies.

Except for the likes of Greece.

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