Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[dennis tooth]

"Unions protest against threat of rail privatisation across Europe

The UK’s rail unions will join colleagues from across Europe in Strasbourg today (Tuesday) to protest against European Commission (EC) plans to impose the privatisation of rail passenger services across Europe.

Today and tomorrow (Wednesday) MEPs in Strasbourg will be debating and voting on the Fourth Railway Package. Proposals in the package include making the tendering of rail passenger services obligatory, and imposing the separation of train operation from infrastructure management in every EU member state.

The demonstration against the Fourth Rail Package will take place in front of the European Parliament at 1pm and representatives from the unions’ Action for Rail campaign – including the ASLEF, the RMT, TSSA and Unite – will all attend."

 

https://www.tuc.org.uk/industrial-issues/transport-policy/unions-protest-against-threat-rail-privatisation-across-europe

[dennis tooth]

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-3728-EU-referendum-Change-here-for-public-railways#.WOpKHHRwZAg

[cloggypop]

And yet all the EU countries that are staying have a nationalised railway whereas the one that's leaving privatised their one years ago.

[dennis tooth]

"EU DRIVES POST OFFICE PRIVATISATION

 

The EU is entering the final stages of a 15-year process to open up all postal services to ‘competition’.

 

EU efforts towards privatising the postal market began in the early 1990s, as part of the push to create a European single market. The aim has been to abolish publicly-run monopolies and open them up to competition.

 

The first Postal Services Directive, adopted in 1997 (97/67/EC), and a second one, adopted in 2002 (2002/39/EC), succeeded in opening up a number of postal services, including the delivery of parcels and express services, but stopped short of imposing competition for the delivery of letters weighing less than 50 grammes."

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/eu-drives-post-office-privatisation/

[dennis tooth]

And yet all the EU countries that are staying have a nationalised railway whereas the one that's leaving privatised their one years ago.

It's more complicated than that and the eu rail fourth policy proposals will do away with that. It's the totalitarian tip toe.

[dennis tooth]

"Procurement regulations that come into effect on Monday 18 April are likely to lead to greater private sector participation in the delivery of health services, according to law firm Bevan Brittan.

 

The new regulations which are based on EU Directives mean that any contract for health services worth more than £589,148 must be put out to public tender by way of advertisement, subject to certain narrow exceptions (such as where there is genuinely only one possible provider who owns the necessary facilities"

https://www.bevanbrittan.com/insights/news/2016/new-procurement-regulations-could-lead-to-greater-private-sector-involvement-in-nhs/

[Oh Buoy]

I'm convinced that Dennis started the fake news trend.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I'm convinced that Dennis started the fake news trend.

 

He just gets bored when his 2 yo maths genius bangs on about logarithms and algebra, so floods threads with his mindless shite. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Well that's up to us isn't it.

The eu is neoliberal, 2,000 Greek schools have been closed by it and everything over there privatised by it. Pretty sure they would beat us at eu neoliberal top trumps..and that's not even by democratic choice but by eu dictat. Ignore that at your own peril.

The whole "democratic UK vs. undemocratic EU" narrative is bullshit.  It just doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

 

How many people in the UK do you think are passionate and informed supporters of privatisation and tax cuts for the rich paid for by cuts in jobs, wages, services and benefits for everyone else?  I'd be surprised if even the 24% of the population who voted Tory at the last general election (where we were given a "choice" between different flavours of neoliberalism) would claim they agree with what this Government is doing.  Austerity is not by democratic choice, but by Westminster dictat.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

"Procurement regulations that come into effect on Monday 18 April are likely to lead to greater private sector participation in the delivery of health services, according to law firm Bevan Brittan.

 

The new regulations which are based on EU Directives mean that any contract for health services worth more than £589,148 must be put out to public tender by way of advertisement, subject to certain narrow exceptions (such as where there is genuinely only one possible provider who owns the necessary facilities"

https://www.bevanbrittan.com/insights/news/2016/new-procurement-regulations-could-lead-to-greater-private-sector-involvement-in-nhs/

Are we to assume from this that, despite the UK Government fighting tooth and nail to defend the NHS from privateers, those neoliberal bastards at the EU - all of them foreign; the UK has never had any influence there - are forcing privatisation on us?

 

As far as I can tell from that link, the regulations do not oblige the NHS to privatise services; it's just that those services which are contracted out should be advertised in the same way that all other public procurement is.  (It's hard to tell if there's anything more substantial than that, here.  That link appears to be from a law firm who specialise in public/private contracting, so even if there is any additional pressure for outsourcing, they're unlikely to highlight it as a bad thing.  I've only done a quick-ish Google search and I can't find any other reference to the new regs, either in favour of them or opposing them.)

[AngryOfTuebrook]

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-3728-EU-referendum-Change-here-for-public-railways#.WOpKHHRwZAg

It's like deja vu all over again.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

"EU DRIVES POST OFFICE PRIVATISATION

 

The EU is entering the final stages of a 15-year process to open up all postal services to ‘competition’.

 

EU efforts towards privatising the postal market began in the early 1990s, as part of the push to create a European single market. The aim has been to abolish publicly-run monopolies and open them up to competition.

 

The first Postal Services Directive, adopted in 1997 (97/67/EC), and a second one, adopted in 2002 (2002/39/EC), succeeded in opening up a number of postal services, including the delivery of parcels and express services, but stopped short of imposing competition for the delivery of letters weighing less than 50 grammes."

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/eu-drives-post-office-privatisation/

https://leftfootforward.org/2016/04/eu-law-helps-to-protect-our-postal-services/

 

Over the last few years, political debate over the future of postal services in the UK has understandably been dominated by the disgraceful privatisation of the Royal Mail from 2013 onwards. This was an unnecessary and badly mishandled sell-off of a profitable public undertaking with a highly motivated and loyal workforce.  

 

But it is false to claim that the Government’s actions in selling-off Royal Mail, or hiving off the Post Office side of the organisation, were due to the European Union Postal Services Directive (PSD) or to EU law generally. Nor is it true that EU rules prevent a future Labour Government from taking Royal Mail back into public ownership. This is yet another example of scaremongering to try and hoodwink us into voting to leave the EU.

 

In fact, crucially, the Postal Services Directive requires EU Member States to ensure that all households and businesses have the right to a quality and affordable ‘universal’ postal service, subject only to exceptions that are closely regulated. This requirement includes a minimum of one delivery every working day and not less than five days per week, including in remote, rural and urban deprived areas...

 

... the European Commission acknowledges explicitly in its recent review of the relevant rules that, ‘the Postal Services Directive does not require any particular ownership structure’ for postal operators. Most national main postal operators in the EU are still publicly owned, either wholly or in part.

[Gym Beglin]

Aztec

[AngryOfTuebrook]

The eu is sorry it hasn't managed to privatise it all yet but it's working in it as it's fourth package proposals for the 'liberalisation' of eu rail markets demonstrates.

That's the agenda and it always was. I'm sorry to have to break it to you like this maybe we can still be freinds?

You keep posting links to years-old stuff.  Here's the news.

 

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/policy/european-parliament-adopts-fourth-railway-package-market-pillar.html

 

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/europe/the-fourth-railway-package-market-pillar-a-level-playing-field-or-more-of-the-same.html

 

The European Parliament has agreed to an amended version of the Fourth Railway Package.  The Commission's aim of madataory separation of infrastructure and operations (as in the UK) - which would have made everything more attractive for privateers - was rejected by the Parliament.  The Commission's plans to introduce an obligation for competitive tendering for Public Service Obligation (PSO) rail services were amended, with a number of exemptions added.

 

What does that mean?  I don't know.  It seems it's still all up in the air, although it's fair to say that even after the introduction of the Fourth Railway Package (which I campaigned against) it's still an overstatement to say "the EU doesn't allow nationalised railways".  

 

“The political atmosphere has changed since the late 1990s, when a lot of member states wanted market opening, to the more cautious approach we see now,” says Mr Wim Van de Camp, Dutch MEP and rapporteur for the package’s PSO proposal. “In the Fourth Railway Package, that means that there are too many exemptions from competitive tendering for member states who want to resist it.”

[dennis tooth]

Are we to assume from this that, despite the UK Government fighting tooth and nail to defend the NHS from privateers, those neoliberal bastards at the EU - all of them foreign; the UK has never had any influence there - are forcing privatisation on us?

 

As far as I can tell from that link, the regulations do not oblige the NHS to privatise services; it's just that those services which are contracted out should be advertised in the same way that all other public procurement is. (It's hard to tell if there's anything more substantial than that, here. That link appears to be from a law firm who specialise in public/private contracting, so even if there is any additional pressure for outsourcing, they're unlikely to highlight it as a bad thing. I've only done a quick-ish Google search and I can't find any other reference to the new regs, either in favour of them or opposing them.)

You are so blinkered it's unreal.

The eu stated goal is freedom of movement of people, finance and services. Its right in front of your eyes. They couldn't be more clear about the agenda. I'm sure the rail unions were making it up and I just imagined ttip whilst daydreaming.

Your explanationing away makes no sense. Our government have not fault tooth and nail privatisation and tendering of bus services began as soon as we entered Europe and taken on by Blair.

I'm sure forced eu privatisation in Greece and spain and portugal is just an abberation. An accident in your rationale.

[dennis tooth]

You keep posting links to years-old stuff. Here's the news.

 

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/policy/european-parliament-adopts-fourth-railway-package-market-pillar.html

 

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/europe/the-fourth-railway-package-market-pillar-a-level-playing-field-or-more-of-the-same.html

 

The European Parliament has agreed to an amended version of the Fourth Railway Package. The Commission's aim of madataory separation of infrastructure and operations (as in the UK) - which would have made everything more attractive for privateers - was rejected by the Parliament. The Commission's plans to introduce an obligation for competitive tendering for Public Service Obligation (PSO) rail services were amended, with a number of exemptions added.

 

What does that mean? I don't know. It seems it's still all up in the air, although it's fair to say that even after the introduction of the Fourth Railway Package (which I campaigned against) it's still an overstatement to say "the EU doesn't allow nationalised railways".

 

“The political atmosphere has changed since the late 1990s, when a lot of member states wanted market opening, to the more cautious approach we see now,” says Mr Wim Van de Camp, Dutch MEP and rapporteur for the package’s PSO proposal. “In the Fourth Railway Package, that means that there are too many exemptions from competitive tendering for member states who want to resist it.”

Ok I don't understand your point.

Why, in your informed opinion, would this fourth package be proposed in the first place? Why would there be any need to have "competitive tendering for Public Service Obligation "

Why do they require the nhs to put it's services out to private bids to be tendered and not content to allow a government run health service to do as it decides for itself. You tell me?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

You are so blinkered it's unreal.

The eu stated goal is freedom of movement of people, finance and services. Its right in front of your eyes. They couldn't be more clear about the agenda. I'm sure the rail unions were making it up and I just imagined ttip whilst daydreaming.

Your explanationing away makes no sense. Our government have not fault tooth and nail privatisation and tendering of bus services began as soon as we entered Europe and taken on by Blair.

I'm sure forced eu privatisation in Greece and spain and portugal is just an abberation. An accident in your rationale.

You are still seeing the world in black and white. Splash out on a colour licence. It's worth the little bit extra.

 

The four freedoms are in no way incompatible with nationalised services. The current and enduring primacy of neoliberal policies, which was led by the UK, is in no way fundamental to the essence of what the EU is. Your constant citing of neoliberal policies and proposals does not alter this fundamental truth: the EU reflects the political make-up of the governments of its Member States. It always has.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Ok I don't understand your point.

Why, in your informed opinion, would this fourth package be proposed in the first place? Why would there be any need to have "competitive tendering for Public Service Obligation "

Why do they require the nhs to put it's services out to private bids to be tendered and not content to allow a government run health service to do as it decides for itself. You tell me?

The Fourth Railway Package is a neoliberal measure proposed by the current generation of neoliberal politicians. That does not mean that the 60 year old institution of the European Union is fundamentally neoliberal.

 

There is nothing to back up your claim that the EU is forcing the NHS to privatise services. The link you provided only says that services which are privatised (by the UK government) must be advertised in a specific way.

[dennis tooth]

The Fourth Railway Package is a neoliberal measure proposed by the current generation of neoliberal politicians. That does not mean that the 60 year old institution of the European Union is fundamentally neoliberal.

 

There is nothing to back up your claim that the EU is forcing the NHS to privatise services. The link you provided only says that services which are privatised (by the UK government) must be advertised in a specific way.

"

The link you provided only says that services which are privatised (by the UK government) must be advertised in a specific way."

Not what it says at all. Write what it actually says and not what you want it to be.

Listen to yourself, like woman denying her man is cheating.

Later you will come to accept thistruth. Do not let your hubris hatred of me get in the way of knowledge.

"In his conclusions, Wolfgang Schüssel returned once more to the benefits of privatisation, calling for the new EU Commission to organise the expertise at a European level. “There are many things on the agenda of the new Commission,” he said. “Privatisation is one of the key elements of a new growth agenda for the coming years.”"

https://www.united-europe.eu/news-and-opinions/news/make-privatisation-part-of-a-european-growth-agenda/

 

"Royal Mail may have been privatised by the Tories, but it was the EU that began the process by enforcing the liberalisation of the natural monopoly of postal services. Want to nationalise the railways? That means you have to not only overcome European commission rail directive 91/440/EEC, but potentially the proposed Fourth Railway Package too."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/14/left-reject-eu-greece-eurosceptic

 

 

"Public services, including postal, transport, energy, education and health services, are being privatised as part of the EU austerity agenda being imposed on member states by unaccountable EU institutions."

 

"For instance, in Romania the EU has demanded an end to collective bargaining. In a country where 98 per cent of workers were previously covered by collective agreements, that figure has been reduced to little over 20 per cent."

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-78a1-Why-you-should-back-No2EU#.WOu_b3RwZAg

 

The EU Commission is on record as saying, “The Commission believes that the privatisation of public utilities, including water supply firms, can deliver benefits to the society when carefully made. To this end, privatisation should take place one the appropriate regulatory framework has been prepared to avoid abuses by private monopolies.”

 

Wake up man

[dennis tooth]

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/wsm/pamphlets/eu/neoliberal.html

[AngryOfTuebrook]

"Hatred"?

 

I'll say it again - the world is not black and white.

 

Providing examples of neoliberal policies and proposals does not prove that the EU is a fundamentally neoliberal organisation.

 

Keep hitting the snooze button, man.

[Kloppite]

Why don't you both just agree they are both a right shower of cunts who are in it for themselves.

 

You both need to catch up with the real world.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Why don't you both just agree they are both a right shower of cunts who are in it for themselves.

 

You both need to catch up with the real world.

Give me a chance. I haven't caught up with season 3 of Boardwalk Empire yet.

[dennis tooth]

"Hatred"?

 

I'll say it again - the world is not black and white.

 

Providing examples of neoliberal policies and proposals does not prove that the EU is a fundamentally neoliberal organisation.

 

Keep hitting the snooze button, man.

I've provided you with their mission statement. That's all you should need a few brain cells on active duty also perhaps.

Funny I used to think exactly like you and was adamant the eu was left wing. That probably sounds patronising but I care not I will just wait for the next round of privatisation from the pro austerity eu and see what you're saying.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I've provided you with their mission statement. That's all you should need a few brain cells on active duty also perhaps.

Funny I used to think exactly like you and was adamant the eu was left wing. That probably sounds patronising but I care not I will just wait for the next round of privatisation from the pro austerity eu and see what you're saying.

Far from being adamant, I have never claimed that the EU is left wing.  Nor would I claim that.  That'd be as daft as claiming that it is fundamentally, essentially neoliberal.