Aaron Ramsey Vs Jordan Henderson: Who would you prefer to have on your team?

[Batigol]

Ours fans would have been slaughtering Ramsey for quite a while now, probably me included tbh.  He's done well this season & finally starting to fulfill his potential, ironic that how he's doing is being used to slate another young footballer.

 

All a bit pointless anyway.  Ramsey plays for Arsenal & most likely will never sign for us.  Henderson's ours for the time being.  How about who's better Henderson or Allen or Lucas, or whatever other centre mid we have or could sign.  

[Guest LFD]

Fron the outside looking in Henderson biggest issue is himself.He seems to lack the belief in himself at the highest level.That run in the Arsenal game summed him up, he did well running initially but when the drop off him and parted like the red sea he shit himself.

If that would have been a young Gerrard or Viera they would have drove into the box and forced a rash tackle, set up a team mate for a tap in or driven a shot at goal.They may not have scored but they wouldn't have shit there pants.

 

He has the talent but wether he believes that himself enough is a different matter.

 

Can't believe people are still playing the "he lacks belief" card or argument.

 

Load of shit.

[moof]

Can't believe people are still playing the "he lacks belief" card or argument.

 

Load of shit.

Well, the alternative is 'he has no talent' so I'd stick to the belief thing if I were you.

[TheHowieLama]

 

 

Load of shit.

 

Is what ended up in his pants at the end of that run. you have to admit it was feeble at best.

[Josef Svejk]

He certainly bottled it the other day. And not for the first time.

 

I think, much improved as he is, that he does have a confidence issue...

[Guest LFD]

Well, the alternative is 'he has no talent' so I'd stick to the belief thing if I were you.

 

He's got plenty of talent and is actually a little bit of a victim of it (like Gerrard was) as he is versatile he gets shunted from right back, to right wing back to right midfield ot attacking midfield to box to box midfield (and he's played other positions for us like wide left).

 

He's not going to get lots of goals or assists, he is just not that type of player.  He is a box to box midfielder and he's played that position probably less than five matches for us because we've had Gerrard and others playing that role ahead of him.

 

Henderson is not someone who will win you a game with individual brilliance, like Gerrard could or Scholes or Lampard.  However what he can do is give a side control with his energy, his ability to keep possession (and he has a good passing range).  Alonso wasn't a match winner either, he was a controller and I think Henderson could do a similar role (although Alonso obviously is better).

 

But the belief argument I think is a lazy tag that he has had since his first season here.

[Guest LFD]

He certainly bottled it the other day. And not for the first time.

 

I think, much improved as he is, that he does have a confidence issue...

 

We lost the midfield battle, not because of him or because he "bottled it".  

 

We lost it because Arsenal out numbered our midfield 3, often having 5 in that area.  Also as a collective group their players were quicker, more mobile and their team kept the ball better.

 

Swap Ramsey and Henderson round in the teams and the out come would have been exactly the same.  

 

If Henderson bottled it the other day (which he didn't), then what did Lucas and Gerrard do given they were worse?

 

I find it sad that the side have a bad performance against a side that are top of the league and the daggers come out for Henderson, who has been playing well for a long time now and has contributed in getting us to third in the table.

[Josef Svejk]

We lost the midfield battle, not because of him or because he "bottled it".  

 

We lost it because Arsenal out numbered our midfield 3, often having 5 in that area.  Also as a collective group their players were quicker, more mobile and their team kept the ball better.

 

Swap Ramsey and Henderson round in the teams and the out come would have been exactly the same.  

 

If Henderson bottled it the other day (which he didn't), then what did Lucas and Gerrard do given they were worse?

 

I didn't say we lost because of Henderson, you drama queen. I said he bottled it because he visibly did so when he had his big chance on Saturday.

 

He's improved quite a lot over the last year or so, was by no means our worst midfielder the other day, and has probably been our best midfielder this season. However, none of this says very much. He's a mediocre player (one who may still improve, however) and our midfield is shite in general.

[Guest LFD]

I didn't say we lost because of Henderson, you drama queen. I said he bottled it because he visibly did so when he had his big chance on Saturday.

 

He's improved quite a lot over the last year or so, was by no means our worst midfielder the other day, and has probably been our best midfielder this season. However, none of this says very much. He's a mediocre player (one who may still improve, however) and our midfield is shite in general.

 

He didn't bottle it at all.  He messed up a chance when he got in the final third, so did Sturridge numerous times (who had a really poor game), so did Suarez on many occasions that night, so did Coutinho... but people focus on one poor chance by Henderson, when his primary job is not even to get goals for the team.  

 

He had a thankless task vs Arsenal, as the midfield were out numbered and he was having to try and do the running for not only himself but Lucas and Gerrard as well.

 

Henderson is not a problem at all.  He's one of the shining lights in this team.

[George Costanza]

Ramsey is currently the best midfielder in the PL. He is also a twat a and a sheep shagger.  Fucking cunt. 

 

Its mainly because I fucking despise Arsenal and there manager

[bossy]

Henderson simply isn't good enough. A lot of huff and puff and nothing else I'm afraid. I don't like him and I don't like Lucas too. Would love a new midfield and think Ramsey is a much more intelligent, self possessed and all round better footballer.

[RedKnight]

Ramsey is currently the best midfielder in the PL. He is also a twat a and a sheep shagger.  Fucking cunt. 

 

Its mainly because I fucking despise Arsenal and there manager

 

Yeah, you can call Ramsey whatever but I'm moderating that remark about Wenger.

[RedKnight]

I should also moderate your spelling/grammar and your confusion between their and there.

[Guest LFD]

Henderson simply isn't good enough. A lot of huff and puff and nothing else I'm afraid. 

 

Every team needs energy and he is the one who is providing it for us this season.

 

Our side without Henderson would be worse, just like it was last season when he wasn't used as the results showed.

 

We can get a better player than Henderson, but then again we could get a better player than nearly all our players other than Suarez.

[George Costanza]

Yeah, you can call Ramsey whatever but I'm moderating that remark about Wenger.

 

haha I actually like Ramsey.  He's worked fucking hard and gone through quite a bit & a lot of shit to get to where he is right now so far fucks.  Can't stand the club he plays for though

[Lee909]

You need to calm down when player you like are at the end of criticism.

Its my opinion and means fuck all to the player or the club.I have not been overly unfair on him and have said plenty of times he is a good player and again said he has the talent but seem to lack the belief in himself its hardly say he was at fault for the loss and i was very critical of the midfield as a whole at the weekend.

I i had a pop at Johnson you wouldnt give a shit but if its Henderson or Enrique you seem to get the right arse.Its a football forum and people will have opinions different to yours.

[RedKnight]

haha I actually like Ramsey.  He's worked fucking hard and gone through quite a bit & a lot of shit to get to where he is right now so far fucks.  Can't stand the club he plays for though

 

I don't think any red likes Arsenal after the shit they pulled in the summer.

[Guest LFD]

You need to calm down when player you like are at the end of criticism.

Its my opinion and means fuck all to the player or the club.I have not been overly unfair on him and have said plenty of times he is a good player and again said he has the talent but seem to lack the belief in himself its hardly say he was at fault for the loss and i was very critical of the midfield as a whole at the weekend.

I i had a pop at Johnson you wouldnt give a shit but if its Henderson or Enrique you seem to get the right arse.Its a football forum and people will have opinions different to yours.

 

I'm calm.

 

But if people starting chatting what I believe to be shit - I will comment on it and say why I think it is wrong and unjust.

[bossy]

Every team needs energy and he is the one who is providing it for us this season.

 

Our side without Henderson would be worse, just like it was last season when he wasn't used as the results showed.

 

We can get a better player than Henderson, but then again we could get a better player than nearly all our players other than Suarez.

His energy is unfocused, headless and without guile. If he was Outstanding I could understand your blind devotion to him but he's never been better than good and is usually just ok. It doesn't matter how many pictures you have of him on your wall he is only ever going to be ok and we need better. I truly wish he was what you paint him as but he ain't

[Guest LFD]

His energy is unfocused, headless and without guile. If he was Outstanding I could understand your blind devotion to him but he's never been better than good and is usually just ok. It doesn't matter how many pictures you have of him on your wall he is only ever going to be ok and we need better. I truly wish he was what you paint him as but he ain't

 

He doesn't have much guile I agree, but again - he is not that type of player.

 

I have never said he is outstanding, I'd love to have better players than him and lots of others in our first team and squad.  But he is a good player and has been performing well for us for a fair while now and it is time he gets credit, rather than get labelled as a simply OK.  He is better than that and the "lack belief" argument I think is lazy.

[TheHowieLama]

 

 

Swap Ramsey and Henderson round in the teams and the out come would have been exactly the same.  

 

 

 

Untrue. It would have been 1-0.

[bossy]

He doesn't have much guile I agree, but again - he is not that type of player.

 

I have never said he is outstanding, I'd love to have better players than him and lots of others in our first team and squad. But he is a good player and has been performing well for us for a fair while now and it is time he gets credit, rather than get labelled as a simply OK. He is better than that and the "lack belief" argument I think is lazy.

I've not used the lack of belief thing but that's a by the by. Your defence of him here paints a picture of an average premiership footballer and is out of sync with your vociferous and many rebuttals of people who don't rate him as good enough to be in a big trophy winning team. The lad himself seems honest enough but as you agree, we need better if we are to be better. Yes we need better in much of the team but his is an important role and I don't see you defending others with the same jack Russell like attentiveness.

[Guest LFD]

I've not used the lack of belief thing but that's a by the by. Your defence of him here paints a picture of an average premiership footballer and is out of sync with your vociferous and many rebuttals of people who don't rate him as good enough to be in a big trophy winning team. The lad himself seems honest enough but as you agree, we need better if we are to be better. Yes we need better in much of the team but his is an important role and I don't see you defending others with the same jack Russell like attentiveness.

 

I think he could possibly be in a Premiership winning team.  Depends which other players are in the XI.  I certainly think he can be part of the squad.  He's getting better all the time, he's still young and is doing well.  Don't see why he gets so much criticism and that's why I defend him and Enrique (another who I think is underrated and gets  hard time off our fans compared to some other players - who play worse and get raved).

[Skidfingers McGonical]

He's 23.

Oops, typo.

 

My overall point still stands.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Yong players like Ramsey, Lucas and Henderson are a shining example of how football fans now expect everyone to hit the ground running as soon as they pull on their club's shirt.

 

These were young lads who were so far away from their prime that all they had was potential when they were bought by Wenger, Rafa and Kenny. How can we expect them to hit the ground running when they are still young boys.

 

Ramsey has been slated by Arsenal fans since he first came "He's shit, he'll never make it, why do we persist with this shithouse?"

 

Now swap Ramsey's name for Lucas and Henderson and the scenario is exactly the same.

 

It fucks me off that people write off the likes of hard workers like the three above, because if they are to achieve something, it takes hard work, a lot of it.

 

Like I have been with Lucas I have been a big supporter of Henderson, I think he can make it, but the problem, which has been pointed out already, is Jordan Henderson. I felt sorry for the lad in his first season as he was like a rabbit blinded by a 4x4's headlights, last season after being told he was on his way out to Fulham, he said "Fuck that, I want to fight for my place in this team" which shows a real sense of determination to make it work for him here. He came on leaps and bounds last season, compared to his first.

 

This season he still appears to be growing into a more confident and better player, even though he still has his moments of self doubt, I for one cannot question this kids determination and desire to be a slid member of the Liverpool team. Same with Lucas, I think he is, as a DM, a squad player at best. But I think he is wasted as the DM myself. Look at how this lad has grown from being slagged off by his own fans week in week out and still kept his head down, still worked on his game and still stood up fighting. Henderson can learn a lot from someone like Lucas as much as he can learn from the likes of Gerrard. 

 

How about we look at it in the proper context, these young players are not due to hit their prime till they are at least 28, so that does mean a period of learning and progression and showing the right attitude.

 

We have a young player called Raheem Sterling, who also gets some grief (off the field justified in my opinion), a lad with all the talent in the world at his feet, but sometimes demonstrates a mental attitude of that he has already made it.

 

The reason Raheem doesn't play every week like Ramsey, Lucas or Henderson did is probably a lot to do with that mentality and attitude. If Raheem can sort his head out and realise this is only the beginning, then he will go far.

 

The same applies to every young player. The problem is not the player, it is the those that are meant to support him on the stands. A young player cannot expected to hit the ground running, and I don't think price tags help or comparisons to great players. At such a young age being compared to someone like Zidane, or Xavi may not help a young player that early in his career throw in a high price tag and it's potential suicide.