Is Rodgers becoming a laughing stock?

[Kevin D]

Will he still be on goals of Sunday? I'd like a full transcript of everything he says so we can microanalyse everything, for boot sticking purposes.

[Section_31]

The big mistake, as you know, was made last season, G.

Kenny should have been given another season, and now we could be judging whether we were going places with him or not.

If he had've failed this season, sacking him after two "unacceptable" seasons would have been a far more temperate and palatable move.

And perhaps one that would have allowed time to think more deeply about what to do next.

Instead, we went for a fourth manager in four years and set in motion a perpetuity that we have a new manager every season.

It's a fucking lottery now.

And a mess.

And I literally have no idea how to fix it.

FSG wouldn't have a clue either in my book.

 

I think people are too fixated on giving managers a set amount of times. For me, the manager must earn their time. You make your decision on how much time they get by the decisions they make and also - and this is important - their history.

 

Mine and many people's fears over Kenny where three fold. One, that he'd been out of the game a long time, two - his ability to handle pressure, and three his 'recent' transfer record, at Newcastle it'd been disastrous. Both of those things came to pass at Liverpool towards the end of his last tenure. The transfer dealings were abysmal, probably the worst in our history, and he also changed from being the jovial figure of his early return to someone who was obvioulsy feeling the heat and was not able to deal with the press without looking like he was going to strangle them.

 

When deciding whether or not he should have gone, those were the factors that went through my mind. Was he fulflling those concerned expectations, and he was.

 

With Rodgers the concerns were his inexperience at every single level, from his ability to deal with the media, the way he handles players, transfer dealings and most importanly - his tactical knowledge. All of those concenrs have proven well founded IMO.

 

With Houllier and Rafa (especially Rafa) the situation was different. They had excellent, relatievly recent pedigree and they both had a truly outstanding first summer's transfer business. Someone like Rafa, who'd broken the Barca/Madrid strangle hold, had a history of unearthing top players, he could have had the worst Liverpool season on record early doors and you'd still give him that time, because there was every reason to think they'd turn it around. With Dalglish, and much more obvioulsy - Rodgers, there's no reason to think that at all.

 

If someone quite clearly is floundering and the club's image and prospects are becoming damaged, I don't see the point of having this magic number in your head of how long they should get.

 

No surprises that the team is not giving its best for BR - they refused to give their best this time last season, for the greatest player who ever pulled on the red jersey.

 

Seriously, we need to flog half the team off, and start the rebuild again. Rodgers? To be fair, he's not a laughing stock, but equally, I don't think he brings a particularly novel or effective approach to the role of club savior - not that he's backed by an administration of balls.

 

I think one of the problems is, we don't exactly scream 'big club' to the football world anymore. Sure, the sentiment is there, but where's the shit hot name manager?? The stadium rebuild? The incoming stash of cash from increased gate receipts for the big name player hunting transfer kitty??? In other words, where's the spirit of "we know who we are, and we know what we want"??

 

The main problem we will always come back to here is that the players, especially the midfiled, aren't good enough. We saw this most in the Evans era. Inconsistency isn't always down to attitude, it's to do with average players being able to raise there game now and again, but only for so long until they run out of steam and revert back to what they really are. You'll get the odd chest thumping moment or flash of brilliance, but by and large many of them aren't capable of standibg toe to toe with decent players.

 

The most glaring example of this was last year's FA cup final. The real heartbreaker wasn't that we didn't try, it was that we did but still looked shit. Our central midfield was busting a lung for most of the match but it took them 12 pases to do something the chelsea lads could do in three.

When you have a midfielder like Mascherano he 'coasts' because he can see moves coming a mile away, even on a bad day he's going to look shit hot, players like Allen, Henderson, Downing etc have to pull out all the stops to look anywhere near capable - and nobody can keep that up for 90 minutes every match.

 

The best cure for inconsistency is having good players.

[xerxes]

I think people are too fixated on giving managers a set amount of times....etc

 

An excellent post in full.

 

I could see the logic in dumping KK, but it cost us an £8m pay off (plus Clarke) and the Borini misfire at £11m - are we £20m better off now in the "new project".

 

Although I agree that there comes a point when things are not working, however long a manager has been in place, the cost of dumping Rodgers would be another big pay off, and no certainty that Sturridge and Allen might not be off-loaded, that is another £25m hit. As a club we cannot afford to keep chopping and changing.

[Rustyjeffears]

Pretty much all Section says is right, and where I get peeved when people pull up the Fergie argument. He'd basically proved by breaking up the old firm domination as well as winning cups and a cup winners cup. Like Rafa, he had the record to buy time when he made the step up.

 

For me Rodgers has shown nothing either in his history or at Liverpool to make me believe he can turn it around. He is a gamble. I fear if we stick with him we will have another season of shit like this year. He was brought in to take us on. He is failing in that job.

[razor]

Another season, without question. "Earned"? Arguable. "Expected"? Absolutely.

 

Then the litmus test will stand up.

[Saintslfc13]

I agree with that, I don't think Kenny with Suarez available for a full season would have done any worse than Rodger's first season and we might well have been a bit closer to a European place. No certainty about it all obviously.

 

It would have also given FSG another season to see how Rodgers developed and if he'd made progress staying at Swansea another season we could have moved for him this summer with a bit more insight into his abilities.

 

Still too late now.

 

I agree as well. Best case scenario for me would have been that Rafa was never sacked and had one season with the new owners at least, when he was sacked (or rather left by mutual consent) I wanted us to get Pellegrini. Neither happened though obviously so best case scenario following the Hodgson debacle was Kenny, he performed well and then had a season where a shit-load of things compounded to have end up where we ended. I do agree that he made monumental fuck ups in the transfer market by spending on quantity rather than quality whilst in some cases paying sums that demand a quality player to do it but still there were loads of games last year that we would have won had we been scoring like we have been this season.

 

Now with Rodgers, I'm 50/50 on him. There positives sure but there are also negatives to his short reign. For whatever reason our defense has gone from great most of the time to shit, whilst our attack has gone from shit to pretty damn good most games. The midfield is hit and miss under him as well but it's been that way since Lucas' first injury really, I do think they suffer from an inability to gel. Hey though his press conferences are "good" and he doesn't fight the media, for some people that's a plus I suppose, for me I could give a shit about the media really.

 

Like Skaro I don't want him sacked but it's mainly because I don't want us to have to go through another manager and another transition phase and hope the new guy has the players buy in from the off and hit the ground running.

 

Then there is the other bit about who takes over from him if we do sack him? Rafa hasn't exactly set the world on fire at Chelsea, and FSG don't seem to want him as they didn't even interview him (my opinion on that is Ayre as well as the rest of the people who helped them buy the club have been in their ear with regards to him), not to mention some our fans have an agenda against him s. So who's really out there? Possibly Pellegrini which I'd be fine with but I just don't see that happening, Ancelloti has supposedly been sounded out about something but who knows if that's even true, if so I'd take him as well. If it's not one of them two, and I'm going to take the liberty of assuming we aren't poaching someone like Klopp away from Dortmund, then who? I think in all honesty if we were to sack Rodgers we'd be shopping from the same "bargain bin" anyway so chances are it would be someone else like Rodgers.

[xerxes]

Pretty much all Section says is right, and where I get peeved when people pull up the Fergie argument.

 

The Fergie argument is that it proves that sticking with your manager for a quarter of a century has only worked at one club in the world.

[boomer39]

so we sack bren and bring in WHO????

[Mikhail]

I dont trust Rodgers and his system but I don't advocate us sacking him either not because I think he will come good but because the fact that FSG appointed him is the reason I don’t trust them to replace him adequately and therefore the reason I think they should stick with him. How ridiculous is that?

[zigackly]

We are stuck with the same hope and expectation as when we first offered him the job.

 

He might turn out ok.

[kalasoma]

We're 8 points off 4th with 5 matches left. There's still time! Believe! etc.

[Section_31]

We are stuck with the same hope and expectation as when we first offered him the job.

 

He might turn out ok.

 

Was/is there any hope and expectation though? Back in the summer I remember it was mainly disbelief which turned to just 'getting behind the manager', which was the right thing to do. But I doubt very much anyone was expecting us to pull up any trees, regardless of money spent.

 

We're out of the cups, have no Champions Leagure 'distractions', haven't beaten any of the 'top' sides and are floundering in mid table despite having spent considerable amounts of money.

 

He's spent more than £48 million this year, how many 'mid table' sides spalsh that kind of doh? We could and should have bought two world beaters with that. I hate to make the comparisson, but he's spent £31 million more than Moyes this season.

 

If he's still here next season we'll be in the same position IMO but with less money again, but with someone like Ashley Williams in place of Agger and go knows who in place of Suarez. Terrifying stuff.

[Saintslfc13]

Was/is there any hope and expectation though? Back in the summer I remember it was mainly disbelief which turned to just 'getting behind the manager', which was the right thing to do. But I doubt very much anyone was expecting us to pull up any trees, regardless of money spent.

 

We're out of the cups, have no Champions Leagure 'distractions', haven't beaten any of the 'top' sides and are floundering in mid table despite having spent considerable amounts of money.

 

He's spent more than £48 million this year, how many 'mid table' sides spalsh that kind of doh? We could and should have bought two world beaters with that. I hate to make the comparisson, but he's spent £31 million more than Moyes this season.

 

If he's still here next season we'll be in the same position IMO but with less money again, but with someone like Ashley Williams in place of Agger and go knows who in place of Suarez. Terrifying stuff.

 

Fuck me, I wish I could post a negative diatribe and call you a cunt for that but in reality it's probably the best comparison out there. Getting behind the manager is the right thing to do as you said, but if were not careful that's exactly what we'll be left with. Happy with mid-table/Europa and a CL berth every now and then with a challenge for one more often.

 

Rodgers might not be worse than Moyes but I'm not at all convinced he's better either and that is a sad thing to admit.

 

Great post man, only thing I disagree with is I do believe Suarez will be here for one more season at least, if we get CL then he'll stay and if we don't he's gone.

[Trucker Paddy]

 

Was/is there any hope and expectation though? Back in the summer I remember it was mainly disbelief which turned to just 'getting behind the manager'' date=' which was the right thing to do. But I doubt very much anyone was expecting us to pull up any trees, regardless of money spent.

 

We're out of the cups, have no Champions Leagure 'distractions', haven't beaten any of the 'top' sides and are floundering in mid table despite having spent considerable amounts of money.

 

He's spent more than £48 million this year, how many 'mid table' sides spalsh that kind of doh? We could and should have bought two world beaters with that. I hate to make the comparisson, but he's spent £31 million more than Moyes this season.

 

If he's still here next season we'll be in the same position IMO but with less money again, but with someone like Ashley Williams in place of Agger and go knows who in place of Suarez. Terrifying stuff.[/quote']

 

Good post and exactly my thinking of it.

[thompsonsnose]

No plan.

No vision.

No discernable style. (Other than to leave a fucking great hole in the MF).

Patchy signings.

Questionable buy in from top players.

Doesn't learn from obvious clangers in previous games.

Odd substitutions at times.

 

However it could be argued that the last two 0-0 s have seen us field our best team on paper. So that's a worry too.

 

Maybe we're just a bit shit after all?

[Code]

We should just take a year off so that we're ready for the following season.

 

I thought thats what we have done this season.

[xerxes]

Was/is there any hope and expectation though? ....etc

 

On the money again, in full.

 

But the problem that I see is that I do not have any confidence that after two false starts, Ayre will get it right thrird time around.

 

There is no secret to what is required to crack the Top Four, substantial investment in the team, investment in the stadium now to improve revenues, and a Boardroom enhanced by some credible football/admin figures. None of that is likely in the short term.

[zigackly]

Was/is there any hope and expectation though?

 

Not really on my part. We will end up with marginal improvement in the league and a poor bag of cup runs this season, which is about what I expected. The hope was that he might prove to be more than he's amounted to previously, which I see little sign of personally but that still has to be the hope for next season; that he has another level in him.

[s(k)aturation]

I think people are too fixated on giving managers a set amount of times. For me, the manager must earn their time. You make your decision on how much time they get by the decisions they make and also - and this is important - their history.

 

Mine and many people's fears over Kenny where three fold. One, that he'd been out of the game a long time, two - his ability to handle pressure, and three his 'recent' transfer record, at Newcastle it'd been disastrous. Both of those things came to pass at Liverpool towards the end of his last tenure. The transfer dealings were abysmal, probably the worst in our history, and he also changed from being the jovial figure of his early return to someone who was obvioulsy feeling the heat and was not able to deal with the press without looking like he was going to strangle them.

 

When deciding whether or not he should have gone, those were the factors that went through my mind. Was he fulflling those concerned expectations, and he was.

 

With Rodgers the concerns were his inexperience at every single level, from his ability to deal with the media, the way he handles players, transfer dealings and most importanly - his tactical knowledge. All of those concenrs have proven well founded IMO.

 

With Houllier and Rafa (especially Rafa) the situation was different. They had excellent, relatievly recent pedigree and they both had a truly outstanding first summer's transfer business. Someone like Rafa, who'd broken the Barca/Madrid strangle hold, had a history of unearthing top players, he could have had the worst Liverpool season on record early doors and you'd still give him that time, because there was every reason to think they'd turn it around. With Dalglish, and much more obvioulsy - Rodgers, there's no reason to think that at all.

 

If someone quite clearly is floundering and the club's image and prospects are becoming damaged, I don't see the point of having this magic number in your head of how long they should get.

 

Totally and utterly valid thinking all of the above.

And quite probably right.

My terrifying thought, though, is the prospect of 5 managers in 5 years and what that does to the image of the club.

Perhaps the damage is already done on that score.

And I guess, deep down, I question the ability of FSG to get the appointment right.

My issue is with their judgment and expertise if I'm honest.

I'm happy to admit, my motive for maintaining the status quo is a pretty flimsy one.

I'm as low on confidence as the club I think.

I fear a damned if you do or don't outcome.

[xerxes]

My terrifying thought, though, is the prospect of 5 managers in 5 years and what that does to the image of the club.And I guess, deep down, the ability of FSG to get the appointment right.My issue is with their judgment and expertise.As I was happy to admit, my motive for maintaining the status quo is a pretty flimsy one.

 

We are now in "least worst option" territory.

 

From FSG's point of view, a manager who doesn't let things get much worse, whilst windfall income continues too improve, is ok.

[zigackly]

What does seem certain is that without a manager to ignite and inspire the players and the fans and also play very clever in the transfer market, we are probably going to be veering between 6th and 8th for some time. FSG brought Rodgers in with the belief he could be that man. He has a lot to prove next season if he is.

[Guest davelfc]

We are now in "least worst option" territory.

 

From FSG's point of view, a manager who doesn't let things get much worse, whilst windfall income continues too improve, is ok.

 

Which is why we're all wasting our time wondering if Rodgers needs a second season or if we should find another manager. Ayre will crank up the propaganda, we might even get some encouraging words from Werner. All this will lead to is Rodgers staying firmly planted in his job.

 

Much as we might want something else, he is safe because no matter how poor we might be, there are always another 8 or 9 teams in this league that will be worse.

 

Expectations will be managed and the lemons will be squeezed. I don't see it ever getting any better with these owners but under different ones it could get a lot worse. At least we're a top 4 team when it comes to ticket prices, we do at least have that.

[TheHitman]

A smidgeon of hope or unrest depending on your views is they seem happy to rip up plans and start again. They thought Rodgers who worked with a small budget at Swansea would work with better players and he would storm up the table. Maybe they might be starting to appreciate experience in a a manager does matter.

[MOGLET]

We may get the magic "53 look how much we have improved" bollocks, but in this game, points do not make prizes.

 

Cup finals and European league places do, all of which we are out of, or will be out of at the end of the season, because I personally can not see us making the last spot up for grabs.

Even if we win a few, the four above us will not drop enough points for us to slip in.

 

But then 53 points is so important isnt it?

 

I would love to say I give BR all my support, but in all honesty, its a hard thing to do when you see where we are, and what little we have achieved.

 

On BR and the "he is the manager of LFC he should have our backing, whilst I agree in principle, I think the difference these days is down to a couple of things.

 

In the past, our managers were brought from within, and therefore had our backing by right, nowadays, we hire in from outside, and as such, I dont think the same rules apply.

 

I personally do not have the same desire to give my full support to a man I have no connection to, without him earning it a little first.

Where as in the past, I had grown up watching them play or who were part of the management team.

 

More so, given he is a nobody in a position reserved for those who have earned the right to be there.

 

GH and Rafa, both had pedigree, as well as a likeability/charismatic disposition, call it what you will.

 

I just dont get that with BR, I dont buy into his trying to model us on another team (Barca or whoever he dreams of this week) what happened to LFC?

 

I said before in another thread, its all well and good playing a certain style, but you have to have the players to play it, you cant just make a team suddenly play a way that doesnt suit them, (Clough at Leeds) you play a way that the players you have can play, and adjust to suit as you buy players in.

 

BR has gone straight out on a marathon with sprinters, and sadly forgot about the hurdles.

 

We should be modelled on LFC, not some fantasy from a man who no more deserves the right to be where he is, than he does the full support of a fan base who have been fed shit for far too long, and who deserve a lot better than we have had for the last god knows how long either.

 

 

 

 

 

Our down fall was being sold to yanks, the last lot and the current.

[Cardie]

We were closer to relegation than the CL last season, if people want to talk laughing stocks.