Is Rodgers becoming a laughing stock?

[clangers]

The difference between Rodgers and Kenny is that Rodgers has finished the season strongly, getting us to 4-5th in the form table in the second half of the season. Kenny on the other hand had us in a tailspin and our form from the season half of last season was relegation fodder.

 

The whole Suarez-Evra affair seriously destabilised the club and up until that point we weren't actually doing too badly. Bottom line is that you can't expect your manager to have to be responsible for handling an issue like that and then be surprised when it impacts on his effectiveness as manager.

 

Kenny would have achieved at least the level Rodgers has this season, simply having Suarez available and in-form for Kenny this year would have been a significant factor. That doesn't mean we should be applying the same criteria to the two managers. We've bought into a work in progress with Rodgers, he needs to be given time for everyone to find out if he's genuinely capable of delivering. For me that time is the end of next season.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

The whole Suarez-Evra affair seriously destabilised the club and up until that point we weren't actually doing too badly. Bottom line is that you can't expect your manager to have to be responsible for handling an issue like that and then be surprised when impacts his effectiveness as manager.

 

Kenny would have achieved at least the level Rodgers has this season, simply having Suarez available and in-form for Kenny this year would have been a significant factor. That doesn't mean we should be applying the same criteria to the two managers. We've bought into a work in progress with Rodgers, he needs to be given time for everyone to find out if he's genuinely capable of delivering. For me that time is the end of next season.

 

Funny thing is, if you look at the results, we only started to lose one after the other after the other when Suarez came back. As for Suarez's form, I'd say a lot of it is the way we've been playing. Thanks Rodgers. It's not a shock a few of our players are performing better under Rodgers.

[The Golden Eel]

Agree to an extent and I share the sentiment sadly. However given our level of expenditure I don't believe establishing ourselves over several seasons as consistent contenders for a top 4 position is out of the question. Spurs have effectively achieved that without megabucks spending.

 

If Rodgers is able to achieve that goal, he should deservedly be considered a success with us.

 

Yes, I do agree with that, that we could sneak into the only legitimately available slot in the top 4 in the forseeable at some point in the forseeable. But that's as good as it gets and that could easily be wiped out by another club being bought over and gifted loads of cash.

[Bobby Hundreds]

I don't believe Rodgers has anything to with Suarez form, that magics his own whats he's shown hasn't been taught or tactically brought out by Rodgers, as a player he's growing into his own.

[Soleilrouge]

Merely six years ago we were competing for league titles and knocking teams like Real Madrid out of the champions league with ease

 

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[diamondjoe]

Not overly impressed by rodgers but i'm happy enough to give him 1 more season. Tough ask next season to finish top 4 though. Chelsea with Mourinho, city and united will be top 3 so we're fucking snookered already before the season starts.

Mind you if there was a chance of Ancelotti in the summer we'd be bonkers not to snap up the wonky eyebrowed one.

I'll tell you what I'm not looking forward to next season is the line of sycophantic, lick spittle league managers fluttering their collective eyelids at Mourinho while he tells them they're fantastic managers and hoovers up 6 points from them, leaving them all dewy eyed. If I see Rodgers at that shit I'll fucking explode.

[Whelan]

Is your question still,'why couldnt Kenny get the best out of the players?'

 

My own opinion is lack of time from the owners. I also think he got more out than Rodgers has so far.

One place higher with no trophies, ergo no Euro football doesnt constitute a real improvement to me.

 

It isn't one place though, it could be 10 points! Sorry but one place higher is just one measure, not the only measure of improvement, we have won more matches and scored far more goals- so it could just as easily be stated that he is getting more out of them.

 

The Cup's are too determined by other variables (Kenny did see us go out to United in the first round, and the UEFA cup one leg later in 2010).

[VladimirIlyich]

 

It isn't one place though' date=' it could be 10 points! Sorry but one place higher is just one measure, not the only measure of improvement, we have won more matches and scored far more goals- so it could just as easily be stated that he is getting more out of them.

 

The Cup's are too determined by other variables (Kenny did see us go out to United in the first round, and the UEFA cup one leg later in 2010).[/quote']

 

If Kenny had finished 10th but had secured European football,that would have been better than this season for me.

 

Crux was though,that he was sacked for a manager not really much better than him rather than a successful one.

[Major Tom]

If Kenny had finished 10th but had secured European football,that would have been better than this season for me.

 

Crux was though,that he was sacked for a manager not really much better than him rather than a successful one.

 

Why do you keep harping back to Kenny being sacked? You probably need to move on!

 

But - and I know this argument has been done to death - we need CL football to progress as a club, both on and off the pitch. The odd domestic cup win is merely a sticking plaster on a gaping wound. 10th place - and regression - in the league, under whatever circumstances, would be a disaster.

 

We need progress in the league. We need CL football. That's the way forward. Not the league cup.

[xerxes]

I don't believe Rodgers has anything to with Suarez form, that magics his own whats he's shown hasn't been taught or tactically brought out by Rodgers, as a player he's growing into his own.

 

He had scored 81 times in 110 games for Ajax before joining us. Statistically he went backwards under KK.

 

I think it would be harsh not to give Rodgers some of the credit for Luis' form this season, but how much of it is also to do with him having settled in and adjusted properly is hard to say.

[Tony Moanero]

xerxes, if you were a comic character, you would be one of the Pathetic Sharks.

[moof]

Players play well = Nothing to do with Rodgers, they'd be playing well whoever the manager is.

 

Players playing badly (I.e Skrtel) = Well, he was good for Kenny so it must be Rodgers' fault.

[Garrincha]

The whole Suarez-Evra affair seriously destabilised the club and up until that point we weren't actually doing too badly. Bottom line is that you can't expect your manager to have to be responsible for handling an issue like that and then be surprised when it impacts on his effectiveness as manager.

 

Kenny would have achieved at least the level Rodgers has this season, simply having Suarez available and in-form for Kenny this year would have been a significant factor. That doesn't mean we should be applying the same criteria to the two managers. We've bought into a work in progress with Rodgers, he needs to be given time for everyone to find out if he's genuinely capable of delivering. For me that time is the end of next season.

 

Kenny's handling of the Suarez affair totally de-stabilised the club. Rodgers has had his star player banned for 10 matches this year as well lest we forget. The only difference is Rodgers has bought enough quality in Sturridge and Coutinho to cover up the cracks left by our talisman.

 

Any argument about where Kenny would of got us this season is hypothetical and in truth no-one will ever know. I would assume he would still back Carroll and as a result the team would be playing long ball to cater to his strengths. This would of nullified Suarez because his ability is best catered to with the ball on the ground, hence Suarez would of probably scored less this season.

 

Likewise Maxi, Bellamy and Kuyt would of still left. Henderson would still be on the right wing now, Downing on the left and Carragher on the bench, with Adam in centre mid. Rodgers was right to fuck Spearing and Adam off, he was right to send Carroll out on loan because he's only scored about 4 goals all season. He was right in converting Downing to right attacker, right in putting Henderson through the centre and right for bringing Carragher back into the first 11.....Carra's been a rock since he's come back. Above all he's handled the Suarez biting situation perfectly, whereas Kenny handled it awfully to say the least.

 

I agree with you though, he needs to be given time and should be judged on the back of what he does next year.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Kenny's handling of the Suarez affair totally de-stabilised the club.

 

That's unfair. The entire club handled that situation poorly. However, it's only with hindsight most of the fans now using it as a weapon against FSG realised it. I think it's only with hindsight those involved realise it was handled badly. To lay all of the fault at Kenny's door is totally unfair, though.

[xerxes]

Kenny's handling of the Suarez affair totally de-stabilised the club.

 

Harsh. In the absence of any leadership from Ayre and FSG, he did his best, but was found wanting. If others had done their job, he would not have been exposed.

 

It would be churlish not to give Rodgers some credit for Suarez' performance this season.

[RobbieOR]

He had scored 81 times in 110 games for Ajax before joining us. Statistically he went backwards under KK.

 

I think it would be harsh not to give Rodgers some of the credit for Luis' form this season, but how much of it is also to do with him having settled in and adjusted properly is hard to say.

 

I'd go along with this. Rodgers system suits him perfectly and whilst he was hitting the post and doing everything but score at times last season the role he's playing now suits him much more.

[Saintslfc13]

I don't believe Rodgers has anything to with Suarez form, that magics his own whats he's shown hasn't been taught or tactically brought out by Rodgers, as a player he's growing into his own.

 

Agreed, Suarez showed largely the same form last season with the main difference being that he wasn't finishing as many of the chances he got whether it was on him that created them or someone else did. Now I don't mean that as a stick to beat Rodgers with, he does have us playing some really good football at times and lately the defense has looked better but in Suarez case I think last season had more to do with it being his first full season here. Also it's not to say he hasn't benefited from Rodgers approach, because it's probably been easier for him to come by chances this season, just that barring the scoring Suarez was largely the same under Kenny.

 

Players like Henderson and even Downing (I still think he's generally average but last season you could argue his average was being terrible) have benefited from Rodgers though, whether that's because of his system or his other management qualities I'm not certain but it's probably to do with both. Likewise though Skrtel has gone backward for whatever reason and you could argue the same with Johnson but in his case I think a lot of his flaws were already there as well and are just more exposed in the new system just as Suarez qualities were there and are highlighted even more under him.

 

The reason Newcastle was so interesting to me is because we shared the ball more than we had been for much of the season when Suarez was in the team. It's something I've seen happen in Basketball for example when Kobe Bryant or another player of that level is out there sometimes his team just gives him the ball and watches. It could be argued that in certain games this season we've done the same with Suarez and if we can replicate the sharing aspect of the Newcastle result when we get Suarez back the whole team so be better for it. While Coutinho was very much conducting the orchestra in that game he wasn't looking for a specific player rather than for the best option available.

[VladimirIlyich]

 

If Kenny had finished 10th but had secured European football' date='that would have been better than this season for me.

 

Crux was though,that he was sacked for a manager not really much better than him rather than a successful one.[/quote']

 

I think I mentioned that I had no real problem with Kenny going as long as he was replaced with a proven top quality manager and he hasnt been so we have simply gone like for like and thats not an improvement in my book.

[boomer39]

I think I mentioned that I had no real problem with Kenny going as long as he was replaced with a proven top quality manager and he hasnt been so we have simply gone like for like and thats not an improvement in my book.

a proven manager?? until he/they come here, we wont know... needs to be proven with us..not ajax, ac milan, barca, etc...

[Gym Beglin]

KENNY ,ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US

[Bobby Hundreds]

Players play well = Nothing to do with Rodgers, they'd be playing well whoever the manager is.

 

Players playing badly (I.e Skrtel) = Well, he was good for Kenny so it must be Rodgers' fault.

 

You think Suarez ability comes from Rodgers management. The lad is world class irrelevant of Rodgers you could play him almost anywhere along the front and he would be class stil. As for players like skrtel he just hasn't adapted to the style of play he isn't a bad player just doesn't seem to be the type to play in this new set up.

[Bobby Hundreds]

He had scored 81 times in 110 games for Ajax before joining us. Statistically he went backwards under KK.

 

I think it would be harsh not to give Rodgers some of the credit for Luis' form this season, but how much of it is also to do with him having settled in and adjusted properly is hard to say.

 

All of it he joined a crap liverpool side that was underperforming playing in a new league then received a ban for rasicm and was totally demonized. his ability would shine through eventually no matter what, he's world class. Ill give Rodgers credit for getting more from the likes of Henderson and downing even Enrique but Suarez no chance, he's been quality from day one and was only going to get better.

[clangers]

Harsh. In the absence of any leadership from Ayre and FSG, he did his best, but was found wanting. If others had done their job, he would not have been exposed.

 

That's the point I was trying to make, any manager will naturally defend his player. Issues relating to a controversy of that nature are clearly above the manager with direction defined from above. This didn't happen effectively and it put the manager in an unenviable position.

[Whelan]

If Kenny had finished 10th but had secured European football,that would have been better than this season for me.

 

Crux was though,that he was sacked for a manager not really much better than him rather than a successful one.

 

Sorry but that is a statement that seems to have been made for no other reason than you want to defend your position. I would be absolutely furious if any Liverpool manager finished 10th - to argue we are accepting mediocrity and then state that a season similar to Swansea's would have been better is hypocritical - we have progressively got better since the turn of the year and our points total which (referencing head Doctor) is the only thing we can control could be 10 better, with more games won. We did start poorly - but Rodgers didn't have the luxury of the previous six months with the team which Kenny did have! People forget that, Kenny and Steve Clarke took over in January so they had more than enough time to have implemented a style of play before the season began, he should have gotten better but they got worse.

 

He should have been given another year (whether he would have done anything with it is another matter and not the 'fact' that people seem to suggest it is), but he wasn't - so we have Rodgers - and the argument that Kenny was sacked to soon, ergo Rodgers should be sacked is quite frankly bordering on the ridiculous - essentially we fucked that up, and to make it right we need to fuck this one up as well.

 

If the team is progressing - and our results as the season has progressed this up back this up, then you don't start again. Another year of similar improvement will see us challenge for the champions league, that is logical. Something we won't do if we finish 10th. At the end of last season we had Suarez, Gerrard and that was it - this season, you can add Coutinho and Sturridge.

 

It certainly isn't straight forward and there are a lot of if's about Rodgers, but they need time, but what isn't helping the club at all is the hypocrisy and unnecessary criticism from a coalition of Rafa fans pissed he didn't get the job, Kenny fans pissed that he hasn't got the job and the usual fuckwits who'd be focussing on our European form if we were top of the league by 10 points.

 

If you feel that a League Cup win is good enough regardless of how poor the league form is then you shouldn't really be criticising anyone for accepting mediocrity.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Whelan

[VladimirIlyich]

 

Sorry but that is a statement that seems to have been made for no other reason than you want to defend your position. I would be absolutely furious if any Liverpool manager finished 10th - to argue we are accepting mediocrity and then state that a season similar to Swansea's would have been better is hypocritical - we have progressively got better since the turn of the year and our points total which (referencing head Doctor) is the only thing we can control could be 10 better' date=' with more games won. We did start poorly - but Rodgers didn't have the luxury of the previous six months with the team which Kenny did have! People forget that, Kenny and Steve Clarke took over in January so they had more than enough time to have implemented a style of play before the season began, he should have gotten better but they got worse.

 

He should have been given another year (whether he would have done anything with it is another matter and not the 'fact' that people seem to suggest it is), but he wasn't - so we have Rodgers - and the argument that Kenny was sacked to soon, ergo Rodgers should be sacked is quite frankly bordering on the ridiculous - essentially we fucked that up, and to make it right we need to fuck this one up as well.

 

If the team is progressing - and our results as the season has progressed this up back this up, then you don't start again. Another year of similar improvement will see us challenge for the champions league, that is logical. Something we won't do if we finish 10th. At the end of last season we had Suarez, Gerrard and that was it - this season, you can add Coutinho and Sturridge.

 

It certainly isn't straight forward and there are a lot of if's about Rodgers, but they need time, but what isn't helping the club at all is the hypocrisy and unnecessary criticism from a coalition of Rafa fans pissed he didn't get the job, Kenny fans pissed that he hasn't got the job and the usual fuckwits who'd be focussing on our European form if we were top of the league by 10 points.

 

If you feel that a League Cup win is good enough regardless of how poor the league form is then you shouldn't really be criticising anyone for accepting mediocrity.[/quote']

 

OK so 10th place satisfaction is a gross exaggeration on my part but anything without Euro football reduces our chances of attracting better players to the club and thats my point.

One place higher finish if it doesnt give us entry into CL or EL is pretty hollow for me.