Reflective thoughts and forward thinking

[thomas23]

Upon much reflection after yesterday's result, I've decided to try and type my ramblings constructively...

 

In my opinion we still need the players, within certain positions that we needed two years ago. We need a striker, a centre midfielder and a winger(if not 2).

 

At this moment, I would take finishing 6th in the league as in my opinion we are the 6th best team in the league. The problem is will the owners continue to pump money in, if they aren't seeing the results?

 

This is where the current squad and kenny need to step up.

 

In my opinion, once again, teams can work us out too easily.... None of our midfielders are playing 'in between the lines'. Adam, Henderson and gerrard were all happy to play in front of Stoke yesterday. In modern day football that just isn't good enough. This is why we need a midfielder.

 

Carroll in my opinion was bullied by their defenders yesterday, and I've been quite a supporter of Carroll. He needed to be strong yesterday and he wasn't l. Having said that l, I think, as a defender if your defending an average cross and their is only Carroll in the box- you would take that all day long....I'd actually feel comfortable defending myself. We need to get an onrushing player who will at least make the defenders think.... We played three centra backs yesterday... So why did all our midfielders sit and hold??

 

As for our wide players- downing should be in his prime... And he isn't doing it- he isn't consistent with his crossing, doesn't committ his man often enough and doesn't offer a goal threat. He would be the one who, if an offer came in, I'd think about it.

 

Now to kenny- obviously he's a legend, however part of me thinks he does live in the past. Football has changed and it isn't unlucky that we ain't scoring goals. Give him time to correct his mistakes, but don't expect money to simply splash out more in a wild spree... He needs to work with what he's got with slighty smaller investment coming in. At the end if the day, he brought adam, downing and Carroll to our club.

 

Thoughts please?

[Alvaro1107]

Our summer transfers were literally awful, getting rid of Meireles and Aquilani was a mistake. Buying Carroll was obviously a mistake as well. I think most of our problems are a result of mistakes made off the pitch.

I dont know if the tactics are the problem or not, yesterday they were but were they really the problem against Swansea, Norwich , Sunderland, Blackburn, etc. or did we just lack quality?

 

Im really worried about the club tbh, its just not looking too good.

[thomas23]

Yeah... I'm not sure if we should have kept meireles and aquilani as they both, wanted to leave didn't they? However we do need a similar type of player...

 

I'm worried that the Americans won't keep pumping money in... The next signings that we make need to be spot on... We can't afford more mistakes.

[xerxes]

With our buys, we got what we bought: a decent Sunderland player, a good Villa and M’bro player, a decent player from Blackpool, and a promising but unproven Newcastle player. Mix that in with the likes of Reina and Gerrard and Suarez to lift things a bit – and you get a team likely to be around 6th..............

 

Failure to win trophies and secure CL football equals falling revenues, falling sponsorship, the best players giving us a swerve and our better players leaving. The importance of winning the League Cup and qualifying for the Cl cannot be underestimated.

 

FSG are solvent and have stabilised us. Which is good. It also takes us back to the Moores era. LFC will not be a serious player on the Euro stage again unless we have a significantly redeveloped Anfield or a new stadium. After a year FSG have failed to declare their hand. Villa proved that spending £80m players isn’t enough to secure a Top 4 slot, you have to keep going. Will FSG finance that?

 

The problem that we have is that in terms of Board football know-how, we are now worse off than we have ever been. When it came to what FSG are good at, PR/Media, they did not turn up when we needed them.

 

I am in no doubt that in Kenny, we have a manager who can help us perform at the highest level. I also think that the team, as is, is not that far off from being a Top Four side. Three players would do it, I don’t disagree with your analysis either – RVP, Lukic and Mata, and we could take on the best (even Stoke).

 

I have never doubted the decency and sincerity of FSG. I do doubt whether they have the football know-how, or the will, to do what is required in a very competitive sport. And it is FSG, not Kenny, who will determine our success. If he had Man City’s squad and cash to play in an Emirates size stadium, no-one would touch him.

[thomas23]

I think man city have the best squad in the premier league and they are top, if they win tomorrow. If kenny had that squad is irrelevant... Mancini is their manager and he's top so saying no one would touch kenny is a bit silly...

 

I agree, however with your assessment of the board... Spending always dries up and unfortunately we need more of it... Or like you said we get what we pay for.. I too, am worried however should I just reassess my hopes and be satisfied with a sixth place finish...like I said I think I would be happy with 6th and that's what concerns menin the long term

[KopOut]

I'm not convinced we're better than Stoke.

[thomas23]

I'm not convinced we're better than Stoke.

 

You should be... Because we are.

 

This season had been a strange season... It's been crying out for a team to just take fourth and we all keep slipping up which is what makes it so frustrating....

 

I'd have a look at sessognon from sunderland... He seems to have a footballing brain and can play wide and drift in...

 

Obviously i don't have the resources or the time to be aware of many foreign players so their could be some options there

[Jairzinho]

Not completely convinced we're better than Newcastle. Which worries me. They have a nice balance to them now. Good keeper, excellent centreback in Coloccini, quality central midfielders in Tiote and Cabaye, the skill (albeit it sporadically witnessed) of Ben Arfa, and a proper striker in Ba. Who thankfully won't be there for the next month or so. The squad fillers like Ryan Taylor, Leon Best etc are also playing at their maximum.

 

Pardew doing an excellent job.

[thomas23]

Not completely convinced we're better than Newcastle. Which worries me. They have a nice balance to them now. Good keeper, excellent centreback in Coloccini, quality central midfielders in Tiote and Cabaye, the skill (albeit it sporadically witnessed) of Ben Arfa, and a proper striker in Ba. Who thankfully won't be there for the next month or so. The squad fillers like Ryan Taylor, Leon Best etc are also playing at their maximum.

 

Pardew doing an excellent job.

 

You've hit the nail on the head... Pardew has got them playing at their maximum... I don't think our players are... I watched Newcastle today and they ground out a win... Something we haven't done his year really.

[Jairzinho]

True. But I'd still say that in Gutierrez (maybe), Ben Arfa and Ba they've got players in attacking positions that are better than ours. Which, considering the money spent, isn't good enough.

 

I think we could drastically improve our side by spending as little as £15m/£20m on two players.

[dirk grout]

Not completely convinced we're better than Newcastle. Which worries me. They have a nice balance to them now. Good keeper, excellent centreback in Coloccini, quality central midfielders in Tiote and Cabaye, the skill (albeit it sporadically witnessed) of Ben Arfa, and a proper striker in Ba. Who thankfully won't be there for the next month or so. The squad fillers like Ryan Taylor, Leon Best etc are also playing at their maximum.

 

Pardew doing an excellent job.

 

Whereas we only have Lucas and Gerrard.

[ngogswilly]

Don't want to sound like one of the RAWKish Superfans and give it the whole "YOU CUNTS ARE A DISGRACE TO THE CLUB, DOESN'T MATTER IF WE FINISH 20TH...SUPPORT THE FUCKING CLUB BLA BLA BLA".

 

But reality is we're far from bad off. I'm one of the biggest doom and gloom merchants I know. I literally ooze negativity a lot...but we've got a very solid foundation right now and a lot of the negativity is a wee bit over the top.

 

What we need is a bit more investment to add a bit more quality to the foundation we have right now.

 

If thats going to happen its probably going to be the summer. Although I think failing to add somebody now this January is tantamount to pissing a potentially good season away.

 

But anyway... point is we have a good team. We're lacking creative attacking talent to support Suarez. But 1 or 2 quality signings will make us a lot more of a threat.

 

I'd be shitting myself if we had a shit defence, shit midfield, shit forwards. But reality is we have a top defence and keeper, a fairly good if unspectacular midfield but with a world class player in Stevie and an attack which is essentially built around 1 world class player.

 

The summer is crucial, and it sounds like a broken record with us every fucking year, but the right signings could propel us forward significantly. The wrong signings will mean we stay 5/6th place. But at least we're in a position where we can say that.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Pepe

Enrique

Agger

Skrtel

Johnson

Downing

Lucas

Gerrard

Bellamy

Suarez

Carroll

 

Adam

Henderson

Coates

Kelly

Aurelio

Kuyt

Doni

 

The players holding us back are those we spent near-on £100m on. Fucking hell. 4-Months on and nearly every red would want to ship out all (except maybe Adam, due to his considerably low fee) of our buys except Suarez and Enrique.

 

Carroll

Henderson

Downing

Kuyt

 

Henderson may have a role to play as "one for the future". But seriously, if anybody can sit there and tell me that these players don't need to be fucked off immediately, they're blinkered.

[Faustus]

Don't want to sound like one of the RAWKish Superfans and give it the whole "YOU CUNTS ARE A DISGRACE TO THE CLUB, DOESN'T MATTER IF WE FINISH 20TH...SUPPORT THE FUCKING CLUB BLA BLA BLA".

 

But reality is we're far from bad off. I'm one of the biggest doom and gloom merchants I know. I literally ooze negativity a lot...but we've got a very solid foundation right now and a lot of the negativity is a wee bit over the top.

 

What we need is a bit more investment to add a bit more quality to the foundation we have right now.

 

If thats going to happen its probably going to be the summer. Although I think failing to add somebody now this January is tantamount to pissing a potentially good season away.

 

But anyway... point is we have a good team. We're lacking creative attacking talent to support Suarez. But 1 or 2 quality signings will make us a lot more of a threat.

 

I'd be shitting myself if we had a shit defence, shit midfield, shit forwards. But reality is we have a top defence and keeper, a fairly good if unspectacular midfield but with a world class player in Stevie and an attack which is essentially built around 1 world class player.

 

The summer is crucial, and it sounds like a broken record with us every fucking year, but the right signings could propel us forward significantly. The wrong signings will mean we stay 5/6th place. But at least we're in a position where we can say that.

 

That's the crux of it for me, mate. Yesterday was an absolute stinker and as bad as it's been under Dalglish, but I honestly don't think we're too far away from cracking it. The defence, by and large, has been outstanding this season and we've played some fantastic football at times, but have just been let down by a real cutting edge to put games to bed.

 

The biggest disappointment is that I'd say we're desparate for a striker and a winger and after spending around £55m on Downing and Carroll, that's pretty scandalous.

 

It's obviously easier said than done but, like you said, I think two good windows could really push us on. For me, Spurs have shown just what a good window can do for you. Friedel, Parker and Adebayor have all been excellent signings for them and have really balanced out their team (Parker in particular).

 

Again, it's easier said than done, but I do think it's a case of tweaking things now, rather than ripping up the blueprint and starting all over again; as was the case under Hodgson and in Rafa's last season.

[beejay]

With our buys, we got what we bought: a decent Sunderland player, a good Villa and M’bro player, a decent player from Blackpool, and a promising but unproven Newcastle player. Mix that in with the likes of Reina and Gerrard and Suarez to lift things a bit – and you get a team likely to be around 6th..............

 

Failure to win trophies and secure CL football equals falling revenues, falling sponsorship, the best players giving us a swerve and our better players leaving. The importance of winning the League Cup and qualifying for the Cl cannot be underestimated.

 

FSG are solvent and have stabilised us. Which is good. It also takes us back to the Moores era. LFC will not be a serious player on the Euro stage again unless we have a significantly redeveloped Anfield or a new stadium. After a year FSG have failed to declare their hand. Villa proved that spending £80m players isn’t enough to secure a Top 4 slot, you have to keep going. Will FSG finance that?

 

The problem that we have is that in terms of Board football know-how, we are now worse off than we have ever been. When it came to what FSG are good at, PR/Media, they did not turn up when we needed them.

 

I am in no doubt that in Kenny, we have a manager who can help us perform at the highest level. I also think that the team, as is, is not that far off from being a Top Four side. Three players would do it, I don’t disagree with your analysis either – RVP, Lukic and Mata, and we could take on the best (even Stoke).

 

I have never doubted the decency and sincerity of FSG. I do doubt whether they have the football know-how, or the will, to do what is required in a very competitive sport. And it is FSG, not Kenny, who will determine our success. If he had Man City’s squad and cash to play in an Emirates size stadium, no-one would touch him.

 

To be honest it's not often I agree with you but that is spot on.

 

FSG have had a prolonged honeymoon period mainly because of the relief we all felt after Hicks n Gillett. I thought they were far too slow to dump Hodgson but even that was perceived as a positive because they were not knee jerk and eventually made the right choice.

 

Same with the stadium. Explore all options, do the research and then decide.

 

Then the Torres issue, we looked in control in spite of the shock over our marque player wanting to join a rival. We spent big time on Suarez and Carroll but that was funded by Babel and Torres.

 

We were supposed to be scouring the planet for a top Chief Exec then quietly opted for someone already on the payroll.

 

We were very active in the summer which again gave the impression that this was a new era, but the real success story was discarding all the shite on the books with over 20 players leaving and reducing the squad to a minimum. The wage bill must have been brought back to manageable proportions even if we are still carrying some of the Cole etc excesses. But surely that must have been factored into the price FSG paid for us?

 

This season, the Suarez row has left us appearing leaderless with Dalglish carrying the can when it needed some diplomacy before we ended up being FA raped.

 

Henry has to come to the plate, if there is a master plan for making us winners I have yet to see it, he has been very quiet lately strangely. When was the last game he visited?

 

We're come a long way from the day they took us over on the cheap but it's about time the owners appeared over the parapet and made a statement about their vision for us.

[HJohal]

The fans have to be realistic we are only just recovering having been put on life support machine by the previous owners. In 12 months Kenny and Clarke have built a young defensive unit which will be the foundation of a successfull team given further investment in forward positions. Reina (29), Johnson (27), Enrique (26), Agger (27), Skrtel (27), Coates (21), Kelly (21), Robinson ('18'), Flannagan (19), Lucas (25), Spearing (23) complemented by the vastly influencial and experienced Carragher (33).

 

In attacking positions we lack real quality save Suarez (24) and Gerrard (31) - however I beleive we do have 'solid' premier league quality in Adam (26), Bellamy (32), Maxi (31) and eventually will have in Downing (27). We have potential in Henderson (21), Shelvey (19) and Carroll (22) who all should be given time and support to develop away from the limelight of being 1st team regulars at this moment. Unfortunately it looks like this will be Kuyt's (31) last season. In my view it will only probably take 2 high quality players ideally a proven goalscorer and a wide player who can anticipate when to drift into the space 'between the lines' and create for others. As with such quality they can improve the performances of others and add approx 15 points to our overall points total - which will likely imply that Liverpool will be challenging seriously for the title rather than for 4th place.

 

Long term I still believe the future is bright.

[xerxes]

But reality is we're far from bad off.

 

A really good post in full.

 

On another positive note although Man City are off the horizon, Man U are clearly in playing decline, Chelski have f**** up their managerial change, and Wenger's Arsenal are the worst under his tenure - we are being given a helping hand!

 

We are 5 points off Stoke, and 5 points off Chelsea in 4th, which is a good metaphorical description of where we are at the moment, as well as a literal one.

[Guest LFD]

We aren't awful, we are probably the best team in the league defensively for starters.

 

We play extremely well in the big games, which again shows we have a very good team.

 

We have created lots of chances in nearly every games this season, yesterday being a rare occasion when we haven't.

 

We simply miss a finisher, Suarez and need to play our best players - that means Bellamy and Maxi over Downing - who is offering very little and is a coward.

 

I really think we might be better cutting our losses on Carroll as well. All the papers today siad Villa want a swap deal with Bent, I think that would be a really good move for us - as he does know how to score and can get in the right positions to finish the chances we do create, especially when Suarez is back.

[thomas23]

Having read your very well thought out points... I still have doubts and I believe that the next two/three trasnfer windows could decide the future of the next 10 years for this club.

 

We have to get it right and we have to be in top four next season.

Will kenny get it right?

Will he be given the funds?

Why are we still asking the same questions years after year?

 

Probably stupid question but who would you lot buy if you had the money, and I mean realistically?

[Jairzinho]

Whereas we only have Lucas and Gerrard.

 

I've not said anything about either. Although I don't think the depth beyond those two is that great.

[Turkish Delight]

The defence this season has been good because we don't commit midfielders forward.

 

That's also the reason why the attack has been shite as we don't stretch even the worst teams. It very, very rarely happens that we ever have a midfielder breaking into the box.

 

Everyone knows we signed a chunk of mediocre players last Summer for big money and the question now is whether we can afford to correct the mistakes made. It's no coincidence that the football we played at the end of last season was on a different level to what we play now and personally I would have no place for any of Downing, Adam or Carroll or my first XI.

[KopOut]

Goals win games. We have trouble scoring them. Just about every draw we've had this season SHOULD have been a win, ergo, we aren't as good as we think we are. History doesn't record the details, it records the results. It will show that LFC couldn't finish the business and finished outside the top four, maybe the top five, and, if we're not careful, outside the top six.

 

Good chance of the Carling Cup though!

[cracker]

Far too much pessism and negativity on here for me. Yeah things could be better but some of the stuff on here ????

 

Maybe its as a result of us just having played our worst match of the season on Saturday where you have to remember 2 of our best players did not play (Lucas and Luis). I expect some would then have us as worlds beaters if we get a good result in the next few weeks. You need to look at the bigger picture - where we are now compared to 12 months ago - defence sorted, front 6 needing attention and maybe the odd wrong decision made on ins and outs but overall we are getting there.

 

Despite not saying anything about it in public you know I am sure Kenny will know what the problems are - he knew who we needed to ship out last summer didn't he by and large. Now yeah maybe AC and SD will not make it long term but AC got lotsa goals for NUFC and SD was AVFC player of the season so at the time they prob did not look like the poor buys they do now.

 

I am sure we will not need that many in to get us up there - 2 or 3 and every year LFC managers get to bring 2 or 3 in so it'll happen. Lets just hope we get the right 2 or 3. Maybe we will not give KK mega bucks but big fees does not guarantee success - good players can be cheap and often imo buying expereince (Parker, bellamy...etc) can be a good thing

 

I'm not convinced we're better than Stoke.

 

The 2 matches at the Brittania - we totally outplayed them both times on their ground if you recall?

 

Not completely convinced we're better than Newcastle. Which worries me. They have a nice balance to them now. Good keeper, excellent centreback in Coloccini, quality central midfielders in Tiote and Cabaye, the skill (albeit it sporadically witnessed) of Ben Arfa, and a proper striker in Ba. Who thankfully won't be there for the next month or so. The squad fillers like Ryan Taylor, Leon Best etc are also playing at their maximum.

 

Pardew doing an excellent job.

 

The game at Anfield recently? - did they have more than one shot?

 

Now yeah I agree Pardew is dong well and getting the max out of squad of average players and well done to him for that but better than us? - I hardly think so. In a way tho his signings of Ba, Cabaye and Tiote are a model for us - good players, relatively unknown, lowish fees who have a good attitude and can come in and do a job - do yours then Comolli and find some more like that.

[Jairzinho]

 

 

 

The game at Anfield recently? - did they have more than one shot?

 

Now yeah I agree Pardew is dong well and getting the max out of squad of average players and well done to him for that but better than us? - I hardly think so. In a way tho his signings of Ba, Cabaye and Tiote are a model for us - good players, relatively unknown, lowish fees who have a good attitude and can come in and do a job - do yours then Comolli and find some more like that.

 

They're above us in the league after 21 games. I don't think its that outrageous to suggest they might not be much worse.

[JohanH]

It seems King Kenny is trying to build the team by ensuring we have a very solid defense, which he has succeeded in. The second step is to use that platform to build on to score goals and get wins- this he has completely failed at. I cannot recall a single game after which I thought we managed to win in spite of not playing great (on the contrary we achieve a lot of draws in games we deserve to win). Compare that to ManU.

 

My worry in this is that not one of our attacking players is performing beyond their own average standard- no one is stepping up and playing well. Even Suarez (our best attacking player by far) is dazzling at everything except putting the ball in the back of the net. Why is that? Every attacking player we have can play better than they are- so why are they not? The comparison with Newcastle (or even Arsenal) is very good- they are playing above their average potential and we are playing below.

 

How do we solve it? I don't think buying is the be all end all of this (though of course buying a player that is better than what we have would of course be helpful). Somehow King Kenny has to find a way to motivate and change our players in to winners that win 1-0 in poor games instead of drawing them.