cracker

He is a goal scorer who cost 35m with a talent in the air (alledgedly) but consider this - he went the whole season last season and did not score a single headed hoime goal in the PL and in fact only managed one headed PL goal in the whole season (away at Blackburn).

Of all Fergusons 'crimes against football' saying an official had a bad game is imo by no means his worst. I may even admit that on this occasion he had a point as it did look a pen altho where he went too far was in suggesting that the liner was somehow biased against MUFC and had given them nothing which is plainly rubbish. It was also interesting to hear him talk about a so called mistake that that liner had made in a match seasons ago - so the man clearly bears grudges - but we know that anyway It got me thinking tho as to what Fergusons worst crimes were and I spent 10 minutes jotting down a list on paper. Here it is with brief details on each one (in no partic order) Saying LFC should sell LS Not speaking to the BBC for 7 years Refusing to consider selling Heinze to LFC. Injuring one of his star players by throwing a football boot at him Siding with Alladyce when Rafa made a gesture during a 4-0 LFC victory V a hapless BRFC team Recalling loan players from PNE when his son Darren was sacked. Influencing the appointment of refs to MUFC games. Saying Martin Atkinson was not fair Saying Alan Wiley was not fit. Walking out of a BBC interview when asked why MUFC were doing poorly in Europe. Banning journalists from OT - often for speaking the truth Gagging MUTV from broadcasting a Roy Keane interview which was critical of him. His role in the Evra/Suarez affair. Forcing top players out of MUFC as they dared to challenge him - Stam, RVN, Keane ..etc. Making young players have his son Jason for an agent even if they already had one. Calling NUFC a wee team in the north east. Shunning Jim Leighton after dropping him after a mistake in a cup final - as far as I know he has yet to speak to him since!! Accusing LS of 'diving all over the place' after the match V MUFC last season when he had not dived at all That was just a few off the top of my head - I am sure I will have missed some big ones out. If anyone wants to add to the list shout out - when I next argue with Mancs about him I want all the evidence I can muster. To say I cannot stand the man does not even get close to how strongly I feel. The thing is tho I have heard some LFC fans say he isn't that bad and sometimes some of our players to me speak far more postively about him than anyone from LFC should ever do. It is obvious the man has a major hatred for us and all we stand for, that feeling should be reciprocated - and is by many - but not by all

FA Cup Final?

I would say that Kenny Dalglish understands the club, the traditions and the expectations of LFC - wouldn't you?

Yeah you are right sometimes a player can catch a player in attempting to tackle and not commit a foul - it is a bit of a grey area. I know that sometimes when i ref I end up shouting to players when they appeal for a foul that yes there was contact but no it was not a foul - it is hard to define and maybe at times I could be wrong but it is gut feeling is all I can say to explain it. It is an interesting discussion point tho and like I say is a bit of a grey area but no way can I condemn LS as one of the games major divers as many seem to want to- altho yes I think we all agree that he can go down easily at times after contact is made with him - and i can agree that not all of those instances are fouls - but by the same token many are.

Don't often post on TLW - but read a lot and tbh some of the views on this thread make me want to post. What we have is the best LFC player at this time who has suffered horrendously with all sorts of injustice on and off the field since he came to this country being pulled apart by LFC fans - a strange phenomenon. I would have thought Luis Suarez needs all the backing he can get from us - some LFC fans seem to be swallowing the agenda about him from outside of our club. What i am absolutely clear on is that LS is nowhere near the worst player for so called diving. I would say that every time he has gone down he has been touched which cannot be said for several other players including even LFC players (remember Downing against Evra in 'that game' - now that was embarrassing as there was no touch at all and SD went over - in a way no wonder PE got in such a bad mood over that so that in the second half he ended up making up an evil lie I believe about what LS said to him). I am a qualifed ref and if a player does not touch the ball - and even if he does if the tackle is deemed to be reckless (as Rodwells was - so to me it as a foul but not a red obviously) - a foul can (and maybe should) be awarded if the player when trying to make contact with the ball makes contact with his opponent instead. LSs style of play is so based on skill that often a mere touch can impede him to the degree that a foul is deserved when he is touched. The truth too is that if a player does not go down then very rarely is a foul awarded so who can blame players for going down when they are touched as Luis does. Free kicks can be important in the game and if we can get them then great. Also LS is often absolutely clattered and incredibly nothing is given so that too will influence his mind set. I just think that some have LS down as some sort of morally depraved individual (cheat if you will) with their comments on this thread going along with the lies people outside of LFC put over which I think is just so wrong and unfair. Defend our own - that is the least we can do to our heroes lads!! I make no apology over defending LS - he is my favourite current player on the field and off it seems a great guy - lets stand up to the liars and bullies outside of our club who want to destroy his reputation - cos if we don't nobody will. Where I can admit he does need to tone down is his reactions as to me that is what gets peoples backs up - he appeals so much for things like hand ball and often when it is not justifed and that means that when it is justified then often refs do not give it - boy crying wolf and all that. I think BR must have spoken about that to him as at NCFC he was far better in that aspect.

Before I start can I say that my basic position is pro BR and anti FSG and Ayre but some of the stuff on this thread beggars belief in its unjustifed positivity and spin on what for me is clearly a bad situation. Just to remind you of the results and performances so far this season in this brave new fantastic world of LFC after sacking Kenny Dalglish and operating under BR as a team who likes to pass the ball. (sorry for the cynical tone but I am one of the 'Kenny should have been given more time' brigade and resent the media agenda which says that now under BR we are going to become a passing team - er that is what we have always been!!). Anyway ... 1) In the EL we luckily won away at a club who were not even the Belarus champions altho we did outplay them at Anfield. Then we had two very evenly matched games agaisnt a Scottish club which is not at the top of their league winning ulitimately due to an own goal. 2) In the PL we have had 2 games - in the first we lost 3-0 at WBA a ground where we usually do well and then in the second - the first home game - yes we played well but the bottom line is that we did not win the game - thus far we have 1 point out of 6 with only 3 teams worse off prior to today. Now yeah the squad may be better - I have no idea as 3 of the 5 new signings have not been seen in a LFC shirt yet - I do not care what they look like on Youtube at their previous clubs, what matters to me is what they do in the PL in a LFC shirt Some posters seem anti paying out big money for players (I am not - we can only really compete if we do imo) and I'd also respectfully suggest that a prime requirement for winning games is scoring goals - with the squad as it is I do not think we are in a great postion to do that frankly - and God forbid if Luis gets injured or suspended any time soon. Yes of course we support the club, we cannot do otherwise but a lot of us diehard fans have legitimate concerns and imo we are right to do so - its no use burying your head in the sand.

The sad thing to me is we almost did not have to do it - after the first 6 months with Kenny in charge what was needed was tweaking not massive rebuilding. A quality striker above all - to play alongside Suarez and for that we should have been prepared to pay whatever it took. FSG tho maybe thought they needed to show how 'good' they were as owners and gave us lots of money to spend - or to rephrase that let us have the Torres cash and a bit more - and altho I know there will be smartarses who will tell you that they knew they'd all be failures at the time of their signings I do not think many of us expected them to be as bad as they have been. The season before Adam and Downing had been players of the season in the PL for their previous clubs and Henderson had won England caps at the age of 20. I think many of us baulked at the size of the Carroll fee but that was cos of the circumstances and he was after all a lad who seemed capable of scoring in the PL. Imo Torres has a lot to answer for cos if he had not done what he did in January 2011 a lot of what followed would not have happened. Also a problem is the way Kenny is as a person - intensely loyal who will always stand by people and those qualities caused him to play a lot of these players far more than he should have last season - Henderson imo particularly. You also cannot ignore the effect of the Evra affair on the club as up till then we were doing OK and the undeniable fact that we did not have a lot of luck in games - woodwork, penalties ...etc. Yes looking at it now it does look bad but you will get me knocking Kenny over it or thinking the worse of him cos of it, that is for the kneejerkers and people who follow the Sky agenda who seem to delight in knocking LFC and anything to do with it. Now we who love the club need to look forward not back and get behind all still at the club - as I am sure Kenny is doing cos he is one such himself.

Sick of talking about it? - not at all. Tbh I am still a bit obsessed by the whole Suarez/Evra thing and prob get sucked into talking about it too often - cos I basically think our player was treasted in a very unjust way and whats more the way seemingly most of the country believes that to be the case annoys me more than i can say. I got Daves book today and ended up turning to the chapter on Evra first - as it is something I feel so strongly about - as Dave does too from what I read - and well done Dave btw - a good resume of the reasons why the verdict is so rubbish Must admit tho when I do talk about it sentences with the word wall, head and bang come to mind and I wonder why I bother. The other week some muppet put something in the Daily Post after the monkey man verdict saying it was LFCs fault for the way it dealt with the case and I could not stop myself writing in - and fair play my letter got published (altho it was editted a bit). After that was half expecting there to be further letters attacking me and my 'pro racist' views - but so far there hasn't been so happy about that. But sick of talking about? - no way!!

Agreed - altho I still believed in giving Kenny longer and perhaps even still do as i was in the give him another season camp but one of my main moans was his treatment of JH and the most concerning was the way it seemed like if he had stayed JH was likely to play just as often. JH simply is not fit to be a LFC player and if he is sold this summer I'll be delighted - or at least not played as much next season cos we have got better options in. All this JH skill set and stuff like saying the reason why he was so bad was due to playing him in the wrong position. Not even sure what his position is - RM? or CM? - cos whichever it was he played in both loads of times and was crap wherever he played. Please don't make excuses for him -I know it is not our way (or should not be) to have a go at a player so I do not like this ready salted stuff - and it is nothing personal, he seems a nice lad, he is just not good enough to play for LFC. Thats all. You may well be right and if so it disgusts me. I have spent countless hours reading and posting on the whole Evra incident - not on TLW admittedly - mainly elsewhere - and I still have no peace or closure on it even tho maybe as more facts came into the open my view evolved a bit - but the whole thing stinks of injustice. You'd like to think those on the LFC side feel that too but from the deafening silence we have heard from them since day 1 it seems as if they are more on the Ferguson, Evra, Sky Sports, Oliver Holt, Barclay, Powar ... side. Why don't they research it a bit more and thus come to understand it - maybe listen to John Barnes and the like who are one of the few voices talking anything like sense about it. What i can maybe agree is that the club could have handled it better but that does not mean Kenny or Luis that means others above them like Ayre and his ilk whose choice of defence tactics for instance was very flawed imo It's now at the point where we are not allowed to talk about it!! - :wallbutt:. Glen got stick for his common sense interview which included some Suarez support after handshakegate and Luis himself made a minor fairly neutralish comment on it a week or two ago and it was rumoured he'd be in trouble. Heck when Ferguson said we should sell Luis nobody from our club stood up in public to tell him to mind his own business and how out of order he was. What a farce - not only did MUFC (in the form of those 2 paragons of virtue Evra and Ferguson mainly) get our best player banned for 8 games and reviled throughout the country and totally disrupt our season, they also helped LFC sponsors to decide to rid LFC of the services of a club legend. Sickening does not even come close.

The thing which worries me most about Martinez getting the job is some of the stuff I read on forums about the possibility including this one. I am in the camp which says that Kenny should have had a year more and am now very worried that in a years time we will be in a worse place than where we are now. Whereas if Kenny had stayed i am sure we would have improved a bit with better signings this summer and better performances from others next season. also we could not be so unlucky again.. Who to get in? - to me all those mentioned have issues and I personally like RM and think he will prob end up being a good manger. If its with us great!! I certainly don't see him as being in the RH level of unsuitablity for the LFC job. I accept tho that it would be a big risk as he has never been at a top club before with the expectation that will bring. The idea that the big team rookie RM is more suitable to be LFC manager next season than KD seems almost bizarre but that is where we are people and we have to react to where we are and not where we would like to be I just hope if he does get the job that the negativty that the fans are expressing now is put away and we give him a chance - cos who knows he may be good.

Yeah clearly of all the players we need to consider getting rid of Suarez should be top of the list - un bel flippin ievable. And yet whether we like it or not there are others who see things similarly which shows the power of the media and MUFCs propaganda. Never mind that while at LFC (which is all we can and should judge him on) all his fellow LFC players seem to love him off the field his conduct has been exemplary he dives no more than most players and less than many he did not say what Evra said he said just saying the word for black in his native language with no racist motive at all the national media has never even tried to put his point of view and has repeatedly demonised him he has to put up with whole stadiums shouting cheat as he gets the ball since the ban his conduct has been absolutely fine (before it was too!!) at OT Evra did not offer his hand and so Luis moved on V WAFC he did not deliberately handle it and just attacked the ball - it may have accidentally hit his upper arm but imo the disalllowiing was harsh I know I am preaching to the converted here but getting this message re Luis across to 'those out there' is so hard and i guess there will always be the anti Luis muppets who believe anything Ferguson and Evra say and Barclay and Holt write. We can only hope that in time it changes

Spending the 50m on a replacement striker seemed like a must at the time i agree but 3 things 1) Why Carroll? - i did not rate him at NUFC and still do not now if I am honest 2) Why overpay by so much? 3) Carroll hardly contributed to our improvement from Jan onwards apart from the MCFC at home game as he was injured for most of the time. So what i am saying is that waitiing till the summer and getting someone for a better price who would suit our style of play more would have been much better rather than buying anyone we could get in a hurry which is what i believe Carroll was - altho that is all with the benefit of hindsight I grant you that.

Thats a fair analysis - unlike various stuff I am reading on this forum and elsewhere. I can understand and tbh expect it from non LFC fans but a lot of it is from our fans which saddens me. Yes I too am maybe more down about todays result than almost anything else this season as prior to today I (maybe stupidly) still had hopes for 4th as we have no 'top teams' to play away and can make up ground on CFC by beating them at home and AFC have a hard prog so will drop points. Also most games we have played well (like V AFC last week) but after losing today maybe it is too much to make up. Oh well - we press on. get as many points as we can and evaluate it at the end of the season but imo sacking Kenny or moving him upstairs are non starters - imo Carroll not cutting it as a free scoring natural striker has cost us dearly - and I don't just mean 35m. FTs bombshell on 31st Jan last year led to us panic buying AC and really he does not fit the way Kenny would want LFC to play (which would be built around Luis' strengths - with a more clinical pacy main scorer instead of AC to help Luis) so to me if he went I'd not be sorry. Also Adam has looked a shadow of the player he was for BFC and altho I like Hendo's attitude i am not sure he'll ever be that good so thats 2 more we could bin. Personally I cannot understand the underuse of Shelvey as I am sure he could do at least as well as Hendo. Also Enrique defensively has looked shaky - but yes we do have to persevere with him. In the summer i think we need smart business not mega bucks business and that will prob mean abroad - but KK knows who we are and what we want so we have to give him the chance to get it right. Maybe if it continued to go wrong in a year or 18 months time then serious questions would have to be asked - but I'd hate us to ever sack KK, I like to think he'd just walk away for the good of the club when the time comes as the guy has so much class but imo that time has nowhere near come yet.

Whenever I hear Woy speak i think about Shanks and that avaricious V bloody greedy quote as he always seems to bring in a totally unnecessary long word - yesterday it was 'we were in the ascendency' rather than 'we were on top' which is what most normal people would say. Every time he speaks there is always at least one phrase like that i guarantee you - watch out for it!!

Carroll - best game for us - and i usually am not keen on him but today he was as you want him to be. Skrtel - a season or two ago I was pretty anti him as he looked shaky all the time - not any more. Can't decide on 3rd between Glen, Stevie or Jay - think I'll go for Glen as he did not do much wrong defensively and provided a threat going forward.

I saw some of Soccer Saturday yesterday and was interested that Robbie and Thommo were on together - what were the vibes like between them? as obviously they have a history of not getting on in 2001 when they were both at LFC prior to RF going to Leeds - was that still visable or were they able to play it down and come over as 'two Scousers whio both love LFC' (which is what I would have wanted to see and hear). In the parts I watched there did not seem much interaction between them but maybe there was at the start as Robbie as a newcomer was introduced or whatever - anyone see anything?

I know perhaps i should be able to overlook it but I can't as it makes me so mad. Last night on another site I saw a link to a Channel 4 news item about Suarez...etc - don't know when it was broadcast but prob yesterday or the day before? Anyway watched it maybe hoping that it may be a fairer and more enlightened coverage than before now we are 2 or 3 weeks on but no we had 'Suarez racially abused Evra several times' in fact to be exact we had 'Suarez said the word negrita several times to Evra'. Acccurate? Truth? Fair? - forget it!! Why didn't we get 'Evra alledged ............. with Suarez denying he said such a thing and nobody else was able to confirm his account' - I mean what has happened to the truth and fairness in our media? - I know we sort of accept it with the red tops but TV is usually better on the whole - but in this case it was still the same old lazy bias rubbish with them wanting to paint the picture they want to paint. Then of course the GBP believe it all (cos it was on TV) and we as LFC fans have an even more uphill task in persuading people we meet that it was not quite like that. I despair.

Bellamy Downing Skrtel Watched Downing quite closely tonight and it was a vast improvement - lets hope he can keep it at that level and lovin Skrtel almost every game these days - used to see him as an accident waiting to happen but now have real confidence in him to defend properly and not make mistakes. But the whole team did well tonight and that is why the performance was so good - no weak links - we were not carrying anyone - essential we keep it that way for Saturday.

Excellent blog Snez mate - sums up how I feel - like you I cannot get my head round how the LFC view is so demonised and have spent hours and hours on forums (not this one - one where non LFC fans go) arguing the case but to no avail. People believe what they want to believe sadly -especially when the media and Ferguson tell them to believe it. And you did not even talk about the Fulham game and what happened there as far as i could see!! - OK it was not that important in a way - but just further evidence of the witch hunt. One thing I was not aware of was that Mirror headline before the hearing with the Ferguson quote - we are often told how out of order LFC had been in discussing the case pre hearing when MUFC had done what the FA told them to do and shut up - well that gives the lie to that doesn't it. And anyway I don't really think LFC were discussing the case - only saying they stand behind Luis. Maybe the only bit where we did discuss it was Luis' interview in Uruguay which imo he should not have done - but to me he was only guilty of naivety and being honest and nothing sinister at all - in fact what he said there was one of the main things which 'hung' him as you rightly said.

Far too much pessism and negativity on here for me. Yeah things could be better but some of the stuff on here ???? Maybe its as a result of us just having played our worst match of the season on Saturday where you have to remember 2 of our best players did not play (Lucas and Luis). I expect some would then have us as worlds beaters if we get a good result in the next few weeks. You need to look at the bigger picture - where we are now compared to 12 months ago - defence sorted, front 6 needing attention and maybe the odd wrong decision made on ins and outs but overall we are getting there. Despite not saying anything about it in public you know I am sure Kenny will know what the problems are - he knew who we needed to ship out last summer didn't he by and large. Now yeah maybe AC and SD will not make it long term but AC got lotsa goals for NUFC and SD was AVFC player of the season so at the time they prob did not look like the poor buys they do now. I am sure we will not need that many in to get us up there - 2 or 3 and every year LFC managers get to bring 2 or 3 in so it'll happen. Lets just hope we get the right 2 or 3. Maybe we will not give KK mega bucks but big fees does not guarantee success - good players can be cheap and often imo buying expereince (Parker, bellamy...etc) can be a good thing The 2 matches at the Brittania - we totally outplayed them both times on their ground if you recall? The game at Anfield recently? - did they have more than one shot? Now yeah I agree Pardew is dong well and getting the max out of squad of average players and well done to him for that but better than us? - I hardly think so. In a way tho his signings of Ba, Cabaye and Tiote are a model for us - good players, relatively unknown, lowish fees who have a good attitude and can come in and do a job - do yours then Comolli and find some more like that.

This post looks a bit stupid now doesn't it - I was typing it when we announced we weren't appealing - as i say above there were pros and cons and i am a bit gutted as to me it totally stinks and is clearly a travesty of justice that we have felt we had to do this but maybe it was the best choice.. But there you are - we have to live with it i guess.

In defence of Majpr Tom I think the question he raises of where the club goes from here is the key one for LFC. However his confession to not having read the report makes him look rather foolish to put it mildly and to me disqualifies him from having significant input into the debate. I think there would be very few LFC fans who would not say that our legal team have not performed very well up to now. I could list what i see as their main cock ups but I am not sure that there is any point cos it won't change anything. We have to react to where we are and not where we would like to be. However one sensible thing that has been said is that after this is all over we need to look at having better legal people advising us. Also I think Comolli a Frenchman to take Luis a Spaniards testimony was poor as that has cost us - in future we need native speakers to work with our players if any of them are in any trouble. Not Damiens fault really - just a short sighted policy. When the ban was first imposed and when the report was published I was absolutely sure we should fight it but by uesterday morning I had changed my view and come round to thinking that it was probably not to appeal, to reluctantly accept the ban and try to put it behind us. This was not cos I believed Luis to be guilty of what they accused him of (far from it) but cos I felt that we had almost no chance of winning and in the long term it would do more harm than good. Now I am not so sure again - reading that evidence from the linguist in the US was important for me. It made me think even more strongly that Luis did not say the words PE accused him of. Before it was he might have done he might not - but there is no proof as the only witness is PE himself, after reading that I felt that he almost certainly didn't. It also made me realise how poorly the FA had handled the linguistic evidence. So then we go back to the key question - what do we do now? accept the ban or appeal? Accept the 8 game ban Pros Gives Luis a much needed rest and it would help him get back to his best form as to me in the last couple of games he has played (V AV, WA and BR) he has not looked quite as good Gets the press and the media generally off our back The most pragmatic solution as with the way public opinion is and how our legal team mishandled the first hearing we would be unlikely to win an appeal. Cons It is not just or right as the verdict is flawed in many respects. As Luis must still regard himself as innocent this may lead to him thinking the club has let him down and make him want to leave. Myself? - I am not sure.

Thanks for the replies lads - and I have had a couple of private messages too with suggestions which I will act on. Tbh I have no real expectation of match tickets as i know the ground capacity issue makes 'them' offering tickets far easier than for LFC to do. All I wanted was some kind of a response which would end giving the kids a memorable experience at our club so that pics of it could be put up around school and make us look good rather than pics of kids at OT with the PL trophy on display which are seen at present - make me want to puke every time I go past them!! And yes you are prob right the Head of Boys PE who is the main mover behind the OT trips and a big MUFC fan obviously prob does have a contact there I have no doubt - I have never really asked him as I don't like him and it does not interest me!!

You know I hate this so much as it is not the club most of us want it to be - how can quite a few other clubs (mainly the ones I hate with a passion - and always will) get this so right and us get it so wrong? Actually it gets more like one of these businesses where you press 1 for this, 2 for the other ...etc cos as far as i can see it is almost impossible to ring up and speak to a person - short of going to the ground in person presumably which is not exactly practical given how far away i live. Fan friendly? Interested in the fans? - you are having a laugh. Please someone come on and tell me I have got it horribly wrong and what I should do - nothing would please me more