Deprivation

[melons]

Reading this is a bit like that month pyhton sketch were they are all sitting around talking about ow poor they were when they were lads!!

 

In the end it Doesn't matter how poor you were or are at all. It just matters if you have morals, values and respect for others. Too many people don't, its all about don't diss me you gotta respect mr or I'll batter you bollocks. What these scum don't realise ibthat respect is earned not guaranteed. If you act like a scrote you get treated like a scrote. Don't steal, don't threaten people, don't destroy or vandalise other people's property and try and get a job so that you can get some self respect and pay your own way. Then you may find that people will start to respect you!

 

It really is all about morals. I grew up relatively well-off in the USA going to private school where I was surrounded by some unbelievably wealthy people, and I know plenty who would be full on in these riots. I knew kids whose parents were multimillionaires who were selling drugs or vandalizing property just for the thrill of it. Wealth isn't the issue, morals are.

 

Morals? You both do understand how learning development takes place don't you?

 

You do realise that when in a situation of poverty morals often go out of the window? I don't steal, neither do my siblings, we did as a kids - for food. If we couldn't get anything from a shop we'd go and rob alpine bottles from bin cupbards to trade in for money enabling us buy a bag of chips or something. Whilst i doubt most of the rioters are in that situation, i bet a small portion are. My sister was more savy then me, she'd of been right in there getting the more expensive stuff knowing she could sell it on.

 

 

 

 

YTS was £28 when i was a kid, whilst you couldn't get dole, there was bridging allowance, think it was £15 a week? Dole was £26 a week once you turned 18.

 

 

A few of my other peers are on face ache rambling on about the riots we used to have on our estate, nothing like a bit of nostalgia.

[Antynwa]

I woud never consider myself as deprived.

 

What I will say is that unless you've got a stable background and family behind you, you're already on a downer.

[Hermes]

I was born and lived in Toxteth until I was 18. Most of my mates lived there as well. We never rioted and none have been involved in any crime.

 

The usual suspects making excuses for these criminals want to get a grip of themselves. These are the people who would otherwise have been burgling houses, selling drugs, robbing cars and mugging people. They took a night off for some more exciting activities last night.

[Ian Beales Gut]

Morals? You both do understand how learning development takes place don't you?

 

You do realise that when in a situation of poverty morals often go out of the window? I don't steal, neither do my siblings, we did as a kids - for food. If we couldn't get anything from a shop we'd go and rob alpine bottles from bin cupbards to trade in for money enabling us buy a bag of chips or something. Whilst i doubt most of the rioters are in that situation, i bet a small portion are. My sister was more savy then me, she'd of been right in there getting the more expensive stuff knowing she could sell it on.

 

 

 

 

YTS was £28 when i was a kid, whilst you couldn't get dole, there was bridging allowance, think it was £15 a week? Dole was £26 a week once you turned 18.

 

 

A few of my other peers are on face ache rambling on about the riots we used to have on our estate, nothing like a bit of nostalgia.

 

Not sure what you mean about morals going out of the window? Without wantin to sound like in part of the python sketch. I came from a family mum dad sister and me. Dad worked on building sites mum lookefeter the kids. We had very little money but my parents always taught my sister an me right from wrong. They were never envious of people who had more than us and they always said if you want nice things in life you have tondo well at school and earn them. My sister and I never stole anything from anyone or anywhere. We were surrounded by people who did and living near the nocky in the 80s was not a great experience. Beans on toast for tea for everyone happend quite often my mum used to say she had eaten earlier when there wasn't even enough of that to go around. But for all that if ever my sister and me had ever brought shame to the family for doing drugs or getting involved in crime it would have killed my parents. Having nothing is not an excuse for criminal or anti social behaviour you need look no further than the parents and their lack of respect and morals to see where their kids get it from.

[lifetime fan]

My brother and I grew up in Lawrence Weston in Bristol, it was a right shithole of an area but we lived in a quiet cul-de-sac where it was mainly 'decent' people living. It was hardly the Waltons and my parents paid 9 grand for their house.

 

The area was rife with crime, burglary, smack and joyriding.

 

Fortunately (although I'm non practising now) we were brought up as Catholics so went to the local Catholic Primary and Secondary schools. Till this day I still believe that is apart from our parents, the biggest reason my brother and I didn't go down the wrong path and weren't inside by the age of 20.

 

We had amazing teachers and a brilliant headmaster. Good results were not just tolerated and bad results were not frowned upon, everything depended on your ability.

 

Thick as two short planks but get a D you were rewarded.

 

Capable of A's and just coasting with C's and B's they were down on you like a fucking ton of bricks.

 

These schools were right in the middle of the shit pit, probably worse areas than the local CofE schools but for a variety of reasons the majority of kids through our schools stood a by far better chance of not ending up a smack head or inside.

 

Teenage pregnancies, well that's a different matter. One that Channel 4 made a documentary on a girl in my old school.

[melons]

Not sure what you mean about morals going out of the window?

 

 

Having nothing is not an excuse for criminal or anti social behaviour you need look no further than the parents and their lack of respect and morals to see where their kids get it from.

 

Like i said, i've always known stealing was wrong. I preferred a guilty conscience then hunger pains.

 

As for the second bit you need to look further back then parents again, we're on a third generation of fuck whit parents now, but it's ok, we can beat the grandparents up for feckless parenting and creating a shite society, behave. It takes more then just shit parenting to create what's being shown over the last few days.

[lifetime fan]

Like i said, i've always known stealing was wrong. I preferred a guilty conscience then hunger pains.

 

As for the second bit you need to look further back then parents again, we're on a third generation of fuck whit parents now, but it's ok, we can beat the grandparents up for feckless parenting and creating a shite society, behave. It takes more then just shit parenting to create what's being shown over the last few days.

 

And the rest.

 

I'm 31, I know two girls I was in the same year as at school that are grandmothers.

[melons]

Ah, they must be dead proud of their little cherubs!

[Anubis]

I think Ive hit the nail on the head to be honest. Morals and respect for others these people lack the basics of humanity. The monty python stuff was a joke . Look the sketch up on YouTube it's a classic.

 

The only thing you've hit with the hammer is your thumb. You've missed the historical aspect of the breakdown of the family and the community. The very thing that instill those values. It's missing. These people weren't born without morals. They were shaped by their influences.

[VladimirIlyich]

I was born and lived in Toxteth until I was 18. Most of my mates lived there as well. We never rioted and none have been involved in any crime.

 

The usual suspects making excuses for these criminals want to get a grip of themselves. These are the people who would otherwise have been burgling houses, selling drugs, robbing cars and mugging people. They took a night off for some more exciting activities last night.

 

Spent my formative years in Toxteth before moving to more prosperous Runcorn,seriously,there were loads of industrial estates full of factories back then.

 

My family have about 150 years of attachment to L8 and no hint of crime in most of the family.

My parents and grandparents came from massive families yet nodody thought of stealing or rioting to survive,although they had every reason to.

Nan also had to bring up 8 kids after being widowed while youngest child was 3 months old.

 

Is this deprivation? Yes I suppose it is but because of love and community people never starved as they were 'all in it together',know what I mean Dodgy Dave.

[Ian Beales Gut]

The only thing you've hit with the hammer is your thumb. You've missed the historical aspect of the breakdown of the family and the community. The very thing that instill those values. It's missing. These people weren't born without morals. They were shaped by their influences.

 

Er ok? Sobyour parents and the way they teach you right from wrong doesnt shape your influences? I don't want to get in to a who can Piss the highest contest mate but I've been there and had the hand me down t shirt. To be honest I think your comments are a bit patronising. But live and let live etc

[Anubis]

Er ok? Sobyour parents and the way they teach you right from wrong doesnt shape your influences? I don't want to get in to a who can Piss the highest contest mate but I've been there and had the hand me down t shirt. To be honest I think your comments are a bit patronising. But live and let live etc

 

I'm sorry if I've come off as patronising, as it wasn't my intention. But aren't we on the same page with the bold bit?

[Guest barralad]

It's all relative i know, and it's a separate thread as i didn't want to go off on a tangent on the other one.

 

I'm asking your experience as a child growing up your experience of deprivation, if it has an impact on your views of the riots ect...

 

What's going on in London happened on a small scale on some of the estates i lived on on a monthly basis at the very least. Up until the age of 12 i lived on Tanhouse in Skem, then little digmoor in skem around the ages of 16-18. The only reason i learnt behaviour of council estates wasn't a norm was by moving away for the 4 years inbetween.

 

Looting, i'm pretty sure had there been the availability most of my peers would of been involved. The same with the riots, i'd of probably been involved in them. Criminal damage, yeah that would of had me too. Whilst i don't condone it, i do understand the reasons and the dynamics of why it's taking place.

 

I can say that as it was a social norm to hate the police, it was a social norm to be violent, it was a social norm to live in poverty but it was drummed in to our mind set it was the DSS's fault, it was the system to blame for our failure, it was their fault that we often had no food in the cupboard and had to steal to eat, it was a family norm to wear hand me down clothes, to have shoes with holes in ect. Did i think i was deprived, no, because i knew no different and change wasn't readily an option.

 

Is it easy to get out of that cycle? No it's bloody well not, no matter how much i've tried to escape it i've fell into the societal norms that took place in my childhood. Single parent on income supported benefits living in a council house on a council estate. Where the norms i experienced as a child go on daily, only most of these kids won't have a get out clause, they won't know any different way of escaping it to get what they want will be brought about through violence. They'll live on the cycle of benefit never reaching their potential as they're never shown what that potential is.

 

 

 

Views?

 

I am lucky not to have had your experiences Melons.

Like you and most of us on here I am working class.My old man worked all his life and was a big drinker.To the extent that while I was growing up I generally saw him more when he was drunk than sober.

Don't get me wrong,he was a good man.A gentle,intelligent man.

I am aware that my experiences are far from unique.

If it was not for my Mam,who very rarely drank,I can only imagine what would have become of me.

You have obviously turned your life around to an extent but still bear the scars of your upbringing.If you can do it,surely others can.

[Ian Beales Gut]

I'm sorry if I've come off as patronising, as it wasn't my intention. But aren't we on the same page with the bold bit?

 

I think so. Your parents should be the biggest influence in your life. I'm not fortunate enough to be a dad so It saddens me to see people taking no responsibility for their kids up bringing. They have a chance to shape a persons life and future and hopefully put them on the right path. This has to be one of the most responsible jobs there is! But Too many people these days just don't give a fuck. It's all me me me and fuck anyone who says different.

[Guest barralad]

I think so. Your parents should be the biggest influence in your life. I'm not fortunate enough to be a dad so It saddens me to see people taking no responsibility for their kids up bringing. They have a chance to shape a persons life and future and hopefully put them on the right path. This has to be one of the most responsible jobs there is! But Too many people these days just don't give a fuck. It's all me me me and fuck anyone who says different.

 

To protect and nurture your children is instinctive.

To give them a better life than you had,irrespective of the privileges you had.

This is the way of life,as a Father/Mother.I have 3 kids but like you I find myself now so disillusioned.What has happened to us as a society?.

I am not too proud to say I do not have a fucking clue.

[Hooch]

In life there always has to be winners and losers.

 

Sadly the people of deprived areas are these losers a lot of the time.

 

These riots are their way of "winning" for a bit.

 

Everyone needs a little win now and then.

[Guest barralad]

In life there always has to be winners and losers.

 

Sadly the people of deprived areas are these losers a lot of the time.

 

These riots are their way of "winning" for a bit.

 

Everyone needs a little win now and then.

 

Succinct ,but probaby true.

[Ian Beales Gut]

Like i said, i've always known stealing was wrong. I preferred a guilty conscience then hunger pains.

 

As for the second bit you need to look further back then parents again, we're on a third generation of fuck whit parents now, but it's ok, we can beat the grandparents up for feckless parenting and creating a shite society, behave. It takes more then just shit parenting to create what's being shown over the last few days.

 

Well what else is there? Too many people like to blame governments etc because it's easier than blaming themselves!

[Ian Beales Gut]

In life there always has to be winners and losers.

 

Sadly the people of deprived areas are these losers a lot of the time.

 

These riots are their way of "winning" for a bit.

 

Everyone needs a little win now and then.

 

Yes but not everybody in a deprived area is a loser or a fucking shithouse ratboy scumbag and people who live in these areas shouldn't have to put up with being defined by the scrotes destroying their neighbourhood on the tv. It's not a win it's a loss, even for them but their too fucking stupid to realise it.

[Strontium]

In life there always has to be winners and losers.

 

Sadly the people of deprived areas are these losers a lot of the time.

 

These riots are their way of "winning" for a bit.

 

Everyone needs a little win now and then.

 

 

If you wind up in a riot, it's as sure a sign as anything that you've failed at life.

 

Once upon a time people had dignity even if they had nothing else.

 

This is why these "name and shame" campaigns are so fundamentally miguided; these people have no shame, no honour.

 

When did we become a nation of such dishonourable cunts?

[Remmie]

If you wind up in a riot, it's as sure a sign as anything that you've failed at life.

 

Once upon a time people had dignity even if they had nothing else.

 

This is why these "name and shame" campaigns are so fundamentally miguided; these people have no shame, no honour.

 

When did we become a nation of such dishonourable cunts?

Unlike you to be wearing the rose tinted specs SD...

[Strontium]

Section lent me his.

[G Richards]

I grew up on the Noctorum estate in Birkenhead. My dad was a long term unemployed ex docker who eventually found work for the council. I was the third child of five. We did not have much growing up. I remember being acutely embarrassed at school trip time when it was Alton Towers at the end of term as that just wasn't even a possibility for us (though the school and/or a pastorally minded teacher made it happen and no one was any the wiser).

 

I knew loads of kids growing up who were up to no good. Most of it was small time but there is a progressive nature about these things. My best mate from Hillside Primary School was killed when we were nippers (he was stabbed in a fight with another lad and the blade went into his heart).

 

So, all this is to say it wasn't exactly a bed of roses, but there are many who had it much worse than me. One good thing is that my parents were both readers, and I had a sense, from an early age, that education was important.

 

So I did the whole O level, A level, University thing, and I suppose that through education I gained a way out of the cycle. Of the five children I would say that three or four are now much better off than our parents ever were, and one is about the same. So most of us have moved on and are doing better in terms of prospects and material things (not that that is the measure of a man, mind).

 

It is possible to break the cycle. You have to imagine the sort of life you want and go after it. Of course it is harder to do it, especially if the deck is stacked against you, but then, when was anything worthwhile ever easy?

 

I have no respect for the rioters/looters of the past few days. I admire people who stand up for a cause, even if I disagree with it, but most of this seems to be opportunism of the basest sort, and it will hinder progress in the long run.

[stevebaby]

Good post Padre.

[Ian Beales Gut]

I grew up on the Noctorum estate in Birkenhead. My dad was a long term unemployed ex docker who eventually found work for the council. I was the third child of five. We did not have much growing up. I remember being acutely embarrassed at school trip time when it was Alton Towers at the end of term as that just wasn't even a possibility for us (though the school and/or a pastorally minded teacher made it happen and no one was any the wiser).

 

I knew loads of kids growing up who were up to no good. Most of it was small time but there is a progressive nature about these things. My best mate from Hillside Primary School was killed when we were nippers (he was stabbed in a fight with another lad and the blade went into his heart).

 

So, all this is to say it wasn't exactly a bed of roses, but there are many who had it much worse than me. One good thing is that my parents were both readers, and I had a sense, from an early age, that education was important.

 

So I did the whole O level, A level, University thing, and I suppose that through education I gained a way out of the cycle. Of the five children I would say that three or four are now much better off than our parents ever were, and one is about the same. So most of us have moved on and are doing better in terms of prospects and material things (not that that is the measure of a man, mind).

 

It is possible to break the cycle. You have to imagine the sort of life you want and go after it. Of course it is harder to do it, especially if the deck is stacked against you, but then, when was anything worthwhile ever easy?

 

I have no respect for the rioters/looters of the past few days. I admire people who stand up for a cause, even if I disagree with it, but most of this seems to be opportunism of the basest sort, and it will hinder progress in the long run.

 

Ridgeway?