Are United THAT Much Better Than Us?

[lamai]

The big difference I see is when they attack, and really attack they look like

 

scoring and usually do, we have kuyt

[silverlining]

 

I don't think United are better than us - squad-wise and certainly not first XI.

 

 

Of course they are. They have a better squad, better first XI and better manager.

 

And even Ferguson wouldn't win the title with our current first XI.

Jesus couldn't win the title with our current first XI.

Nobody could win the title with players like Lucas and Insua in the first XI, and only one (injury-prone) striker.

[silverlining]

The big difference I see is when they attack, and really attack they look like

 

scoring and usually do, we have kuyt

 

 

Nobody in the United team apart from Rooney has scored more goals than Kuyt so far this season.

 

Next.

[Guest LFD]

Of course they are. They have a better squad, better first XI and better manager.

 

And even Ferguson wouldn't win the title with our current first XI.

Jesus couldn't win the title with our current first XI.

Nobody could win the title with players like Lucas and Insua in the first XI, and only one (injury-prone) striker.

 

But Lucas and Insua shouldn't be first choice... that is Rafa's decision.

 

Ferguson would pick an attacking team and it would get far more points than Rafa's cautious approach.

 

I really think United look very average, bar Rooney.

[Guest TesticleOReilly]

But Lucas and Insua shouldn't be first choice... that is Rafa's decision.

 

Who should be in their place?

[Guest LFD]

Who should be in their place?

 

Aurelio is first choice left back and Gerrard or Aquilani should be in centre midfield ahead of Lucas.

 

I know why Insua plays, as Aurelio is made of paper. However United have their flaws, I mean Neville isn't the play he once was, Rafael looks just as vulnerable as Insua does for us. O'Shea, Fletcher, Valencia, Park etc are good players, but not worl beaters - Kuyt, Agger, Skrtel, Benayoun etc are good players as well, that's why they are all internationals.

 

We've got enough good players to challenge for the title, as they are surrounded by four or five stars in Reina, Johnson, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres.

[lamai]

Nobody in the United team apart from Rooney has scored more goals than Kuyt so far this season.

 

Next.

 

he may score a few goals, but his style of play is preventing alot of goals also

[Guest TK-421]

Why stop at 50? Torres would probably be the first player to break the magical three figure barrier in one season. Good ol' Fergie.

[Guest TesticleOReilly]

Aurelio is first choice left back and Gerrard or Aquilani should be in centre midfield ahead of Lucas.

 

So you've already made the case with your answer. Aurelio is injured. All the time. Gerrard and Aquilani aren't holding midfielders, so who do you put in place of Lucas? Plessis? Spearing? Insua and Lucas are, as of right now, the only logical choice. Unless you want to think "fuck it, the season's dead, let's bring some of the kids through and give 'em a run out", which I'd quite like to see, but the season isn't dead, unfortunately.

 

However United have their flaws, I mean Neville isn't the play he once was, Rafael looks just as vulnerable as Insua does for us. O'Shea, Fletcher, Valencia, Park etc are good players, but not worl beaters - Kuyt, Agger, Skrtel, Benayoun etc are good players as well, that's why they are all internationals.

 

Agree with you about United, but they're far better than it would appear at first glance. Berbatov is superb, and I'd have him here in a heartbeat, regardless of the off-games he has. JS Park is a great little player, far better than most people realise. Valencia does what he does very well, Evra - top drawer, like it or not Fletcher is a solid dependable MF, the list goes on. Regardless of how bad their defensive injuries have been this season, their attacking play has kept the pressure off the back 4. Something we should be doing.

[Guest LFD]

So you've already made the case with your answer. Aurelio is injured. All the time. Gerrard and Aquilani aren't holding midfielders, so who do you put in place of Lucas? Plessis? Spearing? Insua and Lucas are, as of right now, the only logical choice. Unless you want to think "fuck it, the season's dead, let's bring some of the kids through and give 'em a run out", which I'd quite like to see, but the season isn't dead, unfortunately..

 

I wouldn't play two holding centre midfielders.

 

We've got Mascherano to do that job, put a Gerrard or Aquilani alongside him to get us playing football.

[Guest TesticleOReilly]

I wouldn't play two holding centre midfielders.

 

We've got Mascherano to do that job, put a Gerrard or Aquilani alongside him to get us playing football.

 

Masch has been playing right back quite a bit. Who do you move there in his place when players are injured?

[Xherdan]

On paper they arent, its all down to the mentality of the manager

 

 

 

Its all over after one post. This is exactly it. People have been consistently saying that we need a complete squad overhaul which I think is total rubbish. We need a change in mentality, simple really.

[Guest LFD]

Masch has been playing right back quite a bit. Who do you move there in his place when players are injured?

 

I am not saying don't play Lucas - EVER.

 

If we have injuries you adapt - although I would use three options before playing Mascherano at right back - Johnson, Kelly and Carragher.

 

Benitez plays Lucas regularly and we don't need two holding players and frankly Mascherano is better than Lucas.

[Code]

 

We've got enough good players to challenge for the title, as they are surrounded by four or five stars in Reina, Johnson, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres.

 

When three of your star players are one keeper, a not so great right back and a midfielder who never scores and never really influences the attacking play then you know you will get trouble somewhere.

[Guest TesticleOReilly]

I am not saying don't play Lucas - EVER.

 

If we have injuries you adapt - although I would use three options before playing Mascherano at right back - Johnson, Kelly and Carragher.

 

Benitez plays Lucas regularly and we don't need two holding players and frankly Mascherano is better than Lucas.

 

Johnson's fine, but when he goes forward (as he was bought to do) Masch's job is to cover that position. Who then covers the HM position?

 

Carra cries when he's not playing CB, and he's too slow to play RB now, anyway.

 

Kelly? Aye, worth a punt, 'specially against Pompey.

 

 

Either way, I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just that it's far trickier doing this job than most armchair managers realise.

[Paul]

Reds have been underestimating and writing off The Mancs ever since they got that title monkey off their backs again. Ferguson is undoubtedly the best manager in the game and has/will have surpassed any other when they win their 19th title this season. He has consistently produced exciting, attacking football teams that win trophies season in, season out, whilst also bringing through home grown talent at the same time.

 

So in answer to the question in the title - of course they are. Even if they didn't have Rooney, they'd have someone else. He signs and develops world class talents, gets the best out of them and then moves them on on terms that are favourable to the club. As long as he's there, the status quo will remain, in my view.

[Catch22]

On paper they arent, its all down to the mentality of the manager

 

If we have a squad even close to theirs on 'paper it means that Rafa is an incredible genius in the transfer market as they spend over £30m per year more on it

 

That is the equivalent of more than Torres,Gerrard & Reina.

 

You can't criticise Rafa's transfer record & then claim that we have a squad close to the Mancs!

 

They spend a lot more, they get better players.

 

Last season was a extreme over-performance by us, due to Xabi being underpaid, Rafa getting everything right & vast amounts of luck.

You can argue over what weight to give each of those but they were all positive or we would never have managed what we did.

[Catch22]

Reds have been underestimating and writing off The Mancs ever since they got that title monkey off their backs again. Ferguson is undoubtedly the best manager in the game and has/will have surpassed any other when they win their 19th title this season. He has consistently produced exciting, attacking football teams that win trophies season in, season out, whilst also bringing through home grown talent at the same time.

 

So in answer to the question in the title - of course they are. Even if they didn't have Rooney, they'd have someone else. He signs and develops world class talents, gets the best out of them and then moves them on on terms that are favourable to the club. As long as he's there, the status quo will remain, in my view.

 

You are undoubtedly right about his genius but did you see my earlier post about the comparison between the Mancs & RM's trophy haul over his tenure?

 

I don't think it takes away from Fergie being a great manager but it certainly suggests that the manager's influence on the outcome is infinetely lower than the British press claim as despite identical #1 financial positions in their respective countries the best of his generation can't beat their almost identical trophy count when they have seemingly employed 24(!) blokes randomly off the streets

 

It also directs us as to the true difference between the Mancs & other teams.

[Kevin D]

Another thing that strikes me is how every single United player is comfortable on the ball and able to give and receive the ball under pressure at a high-tempo. Even the weaker members of their squad like Wes Brown and John O'Shea have a fairly decent level of technical ability that aids the fluidity of their play.

 

I don't think that's something we could say at our own squad. My dad got that Geoff Twentyman 'Diary of a Liverpool scout' book for Christmas and I was flicking through it the other day and skim read a chapter were there was an interview with Eduardo Macia. Basically, he said that a strong mentality was the main quality they looked for when they scouted a player and cited Lucas as an example of this. While mentality is obviously important, I wouldn't make it the single biggest reason why I'd sign a player. Basic technical ability should be a basic demand and as I said, I don't think it's something you could say that every member of our squad possesses. If you have the right personnel in the squad and backroom staff in the first place, I believe that you can mould the mentality of the player to suit the ethos of the club anyway.

 

He was either on Momoesque wind up or he should have been sacked the second he finished said interview.

[Guest LFD]

When three of your star players are one keeper, a not so great right back and a midfielder who never scores and never really influences the attacking play then you know you will get trouble somewhere.

 

Well I certainly disagree with that.

 

I think he is the best in the league.

 

Reina, Johnson, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres would probably get in nearly every other team in the league.

 

Now when you add to them other Internationals such as Carragher (retired I know), Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Riera, Kuyt, Benayoun etc...

 

It shows we should be challenging for the title.

 

Yes we need a new left back, yes we need another striker in the squad and ideally we'd have a top wide player. But that does not mean this group of players aren't good enough to be challenging for the title, as I believe they should be - or more importantly would be if we had a manager that got the best out of the players, made them go out with intent to attack and got them performing as they should be.

[silverlining]

Masch has been playing right back quite a bit. Who do you move there in his place when players are injured?

 

Twice.

 

The rest of the time he has partnered the hideous Lucas in one of the most ineffectual and creatively moribund CENTRAL MIDFIELD PARTNERSHIPS THIS CLUB HAS EVER HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO WATCH.

[Guest LFD]

Tonight proves we have been vastly under achieving and this team should be challenging for the title.

 

Our manager has not been picking the right team, which has been the main problem.

 

The Mascherano / Lucas partnership should be banned when we play teams outside the top three or four teams.

[Guest LFD]

Well I still don't think United are any better than our XI that we have fit at the moment.

 

Therefore I wouldn't be cautious and I'd go to Old Trafford and attack them. We always say opposition teams give them too much respect and I think that is what we'd be doing if we start with Mascherano and Lucas in centre midfield. I would like to see Aquilani play, where I think he can really get us playing, us ticking and hopefully causing them numberous problems along with Gerrard and Torres.

 

Here is what I'd like to see:

 

 

------------------------Reina--------------------------

 

Johnson------Carragher--------Agger---------Aurelio (Is he fit?)

 

-----------------------Mascherano---------------------

 

Benayoun------Gerrard--------------Aquilani-------Babel

 

-------------------------Torres-------------------------

 

Bar Rooney they have no one to fear really, so let's not be cautious and play into their hands, as most teams in this league do.

[a stoner]

Yup they are as they play football not the dross we churn out in most matches. Even last night we looked very vulnerable for 20 minutes in the second half when we should have attacked and killed the game off.

I don't give a shit what it says on paper it's results that matter and ours have been pretty shit this season apart from a few exceptions.

Also enough with this lone striker shit, the mans never going to get fit if he's expected to do so much up front on his own most of the time. I would rather see a solid 4-4-2 or even a 3-2-3-2 with the defensive mid-fielders going forward to help the mid field and back to help out in defense.

[Captain]

I mean on paper, I am amazed how United are creating numerous chances in games, challenging for the title, still in the Champs League and already winning a Cup this season.

 

I really don't think they are any better than us on paper.

 

Then you're wrong. They have a better team, a better squad and a better manager.