Rafa poll re-run.

[Carradona]

Very interesting results so far.

[Drewas]

This could be the first bad season weve had since he joined and I still think Benitez even now is capable of winning the Europa cup and finishing in the top four.

 

Given what hes done previously he deserves until the end of the season at the very least.

 

If this season was all down to Rafa's judgement then it maybe would be different.

[Ian Sea]

I want him gone now.

 

Enough is enough, we're fucking shit and there's no way will Rafa turn things around. He shouldn't have to turn things around though, 6 years into his reign and this is what it's come to?

 

I don't even care who we get in as a replacement, I think anyone could do a better job. No-one could do any worse, that's for sure.

 

Go now before your reputation is tarnished forever.

[Red Banjo]

Fanboyism? You make that up, all by yourself?

 

We have underachieved in 4 or five years?

 

Care to explain why you feel we have underachieved?

 

Two European Cup finals, League Cup Final, FA Cup Final, European Cup football year in, year out, Second in the league last year with our highest points total EVER

 

All on the transfer budget of a mid-table side.

 

I despair.

 

Are you serious?

 

Were you around in the summer? Last summer? 2 summers ago?

 

Did you see Fulham/Wigan/Blackburn spend £17m on a right back, or £20m on a superstar from Athletico Madrid, or £19m on a striker from Spurs, or £20m on a bog eyed playmaker from Rome, etc, etc, etc...

 

We spend alot of money. And dont bring net fucking spend into it.

 

This year the manager has had his hands tied, but there has been money to spend in the past. You cant compare us to a mid table team

[Tom R]

Alot judging from the past week or so.

 

fuck off you complete prick.

[Carradona]

Anyone, aand I mean anyone, who thinks we don't spend much money is just taking the piss and I believe they are deluded.

[Cardie]

No routine?

[Ged B]

Can somebody delete those stupid fucking tags that are on every thread please?

[G Richards]

Stay until end of season. Let's see if we can finish fourth. The time to act will be the summer. Until then, I'm not sure what a new man is supposed to do unless some of the underling financials have changed.

[thecraftycarper]

We're not like chevski DubiaCity Or LostsPur, we back our manager and our side, no excuses.

However, i wouldnt want to finish near the bottom 3, which isnt out of the question, with the nerves our players have.

Its like being between a rock and a hard place, and we're all waiting for the problem to solve itself, by just winning a few games with a good performance and a goal or 3.

I'l risk it,............In Rafa i trust.

[JermainePennant]

Are you serious?

 

Were you around in the summer? Last summer? 2 summers ago?

 

Did you see Fulham/Wigan/Blackburn spend £17m on a right back, or £20m on a superstar from Athletico Madrid, or £19m on a striker from Spurs, or £20m on a bog eyed playmaker from Rome, etc, etc, etc...

 

We spend alot of money. And dont bring net fucking spend into it.

 

This year the manager has had his hands tied, but there has been money to spend in the past. You cant compare us to a mid table team

 

Wigan and Blackburn are not mi tabble teams for one they are below, your right we have spent more then fulham but we are ot competing for them and everyone excepts they have performed better then you would expect thats why hodgson is getting so much credit.

 

Teams below us have spent more like spurs and man city aswell as the other top 3 (maybe not arsenal) while teams like villa, newcastle have spent close to the amount rafa has worked with so I think the saying he has overachieved is a fair statement considering he has always finished in the top four and has reguarly finished above teams that have spent more them him not to mention the trophies and teams he has got us to beat in the cl.

 

You even say this year he had his hands tied which is a major reason for our downfall, we lost key players which needed to be replaced but we also had areas that needed to be added to which could not be because a lack of funds.

 

Rafa has done a great job since he has been at liverpool and is having a blip this season, his squad is shot for confidence and full of injurys yet he is only four points behind these teams that have outspent him, he cant be doing as bad a job as people are making out if redknapp etc are doing a great job

[The Chief]

Its attitudes like that.....

 

We area big club, of course we are. But devine right? Save your romanticised bullshit for someone that will take it.

 

Football is a ruthless business, clubs and fans a like expect things to happen. Expect success to fall into our laps. No hard work needed. A manager should win trophies....fuck the circumstances

 

Time for you to get in the real world matey...

 

Before Rafa arrived, we were a footnote in European football....a fallen giant, "the once great".

 

Us being knocked out of the champions league group stages was a shock to the whole of Europe. That speaks volumes.

 

Rafa is a victim of his own success.

 

I'd imagine no manager, anywhere would be able to satisfy your needs mate.

 

'Devine right'

 

Fucking listen to yourself.

 

No seriously YOU fucking listen to yourself, "punching above your weight" is something that the likes of Villa, Spurs, the bitters, and this season Birmingham do. When a team is expected to finish in the middle to top positions and they get into Europe a la Fulham, THAT'S "punching above your weight". Nobody but nobody is saying you get it without hard work, we all know it takes work. What you say above is EXACTLY what I'm saying, I can see you're one of these people who'll read into a post what the fuck you want so carry on.

I said we had a DIVINE (which position does devine play?) right to be known as a big club, not one that feels like it's a job well done when we scrape into the EUFA cup, are you too stupid to realise what I'm saying to you?

 

Rafa wanted total control of the club, well with control comes responsibility, and Rafa has to take some responsibility for the position we're in.

Edited January 17, 2010 by The Chief

[rednich85]

Are you serious?

 

Were you around in the summer? Last summer? 2 summers ago?

 

Did you see Fulham/Wigan/Blackburn spend £17m on a right back, or £20m on a superstar from Athletico Madrid, or £19m on a striker from Spurs, or £20m on a bog eyed playmaker from Rome, etc, etc, etc...

 

We spend alot of money. And dont bring net fucking spend into it.

 

This year the manager has had his hands tied, but there has been money to spend in the past. You cant compare us to a mid table team

 

Why not bring net spend into it? Don't you think it is relevant?

 

The £17 million pound right back and the £20 million bog eyed playmaker signings payed for themselves with our sales.

 

So you admit, this year the manager has had his hands tied?

 

Funny that its this year the manager and squad are underperforming...

 

Coincidence?

 

Listen, I'm not a Rafa apologist. I dont follow him blindly but I am shocked at the lack of support he is getting from our fans, especially considering the predicament the club is in.

 

If fans want to bury their heads and get someone else in, who will have the same problems encountered by Rafa, only with a load of players who mighten be his cup of tea. Can he replace them? Not going by our current monetary situation

 

All I want, is for fans to give Rafa a chance to correct the fucking shit hole we are in.

 

I think he desereves that, at the very least

[rednich85]

No seriously YOU fucking listen to yourself, "pucnhing above your weight" is something that the likes of Villa, Spurs, the bitters, and this season Birmingham do. When a team is expected to finish in the middle to top positions and they get into Europe a la Fulham, THAT'S "punching above your weight". Nobody but nobody is saying you get it without hard work, we all know it takes work. What you say above is EXACTLY what I'm saying, I can see you're one of these people who'll read into a post what the fuck you want so carry on.

I said we had a DIVINE (which position does devine play?) right to be known as a big club, not one that feels like it's a job well done when we scrape into the EUFA cup, are you too stupid to realise what I'm saying to you?

 

Rafa wanted total control of the club, well with control comes responsibilty, and Rafa has to take some responsibility for the position we're in.[/QUOTE]

 

Pick out a spelling mistake.....nice.

 

The bold bit.

 

Rafa has had total control for how long?

 

Just over 6 months

 

Is that enough to turn a club around?

 

In that 6 months, we've had a transfer window where he had no money invested in new players.

 

I'd accept that in two years, with Rafa having full control of the club, we could have a look and see how we've been doing and pin the whole clusterfuck on him.

 

Some fans have itchy trigger fingers

[Red Banjo]

Why not bring net spend into it? Don't you think it is relevant?

 

The £17 million pound right back and the £20 million bog eyed playmaker signings payed for themselves with our sales.

 

So you admit, this year the manager has had his hands tied?

 

Funny that its this year the manager and squad are underperforming...

 

Coincidence?

 

Listen, I'm not a Rafa apologist. I dont follow him blindly but I am shocked at the lack of support he is getting from our fans, especially considering the predicament the club is in.

 

If fans want to bury their heads and get someone else in, who will have the same problems encountered by Rafa, only with a load of players who mighten be his cup of tea. Can he replace them? Not going by our current monetary situation

 

All I want, is for fans to give Rafa a chance to correct the fucking shit hole we are in.

 

I think he desereves that, at the very least

 

I think i can help you out with this bit.

 

In May this football club will have gone 4 years without winning a trophy.

 

This football club happens to be one of the most successful and most supported football clubs in world football.

 

4 years without a trophy. For a club who exist only to win trophies, that is wholly unacceptable.

[rednich85]

I think i can help you out with this bit.

 

In May this football club will have gone 4 years without winning a trophy.

 

This football club happens to be one of the most successful and most supported football clubs in world football.

 

4 years without a trophy. For a club who exist only to win trophies, that is wholly unacceptable.

 

David Moores? You're quoting David Fucking Moores?

 

Thanks for the help!

[rage]

we do exist to win trophies. only someone who has been brainwashed by the mediocrity that rafa and his apologists continue to express would think otherwise.

 

i wouldn't care if hitler said it, it's still true.

[Red Banjo]

David Moores? You're quoting David Fucking Moores?

 

Thanks for the help!

 

Your kidding me right?

 

You must be, you have to be, you are... aren't you?

 

You think David Moores was the person who said Liverpool exist only to win trophies?

 

Please tell me you do

[meijer 09]

After reflection and a few beers, i stick with my answer Till the end of the season. Rafa's a good manager the best we've had for a long time, it looks more unlikely he'll turn it round every game but i hope he does. If we'd beat stoke we'd be 2 points behind fourth, now i dont for one minute believe fourth is good enough but im saying things aren't as bad as they could be. If there was money available in this transfer window my answer might be different.But i agree the situation cannot continue and rafa needs to show how good a manager he is from now till the end of the season

[Guest davelfc]

If Liverpool think they are in trouble now, just wait until Rafa walks

 

If Liverpool think they are in trouble now, just wait until Rafa walks - Other Sports, Sport - Independent.ie

 

L iverpool's traditional January crisis has momentum this year. Perhaps this is because it follows on so swiftly from their December crisis which had been directly prefaced by a November crisis that in itself was merely an extension of the October crisis which would not have come about except for their September crisis simply being a continuation of their August crisis that was merely a hangover from their close season debacle.

 

For much of last season they were in crisis too, even for the long periods when they were top of the league. During those troubling times it was generally agreed that Rafael Benitez must be doing something right, although nobody could agree on exactly what it was.

 

The best they could often come up with was the signing of Javier Mascherano. He deserved no credit for signing Fernando Torres. That was a no-brainer, except for all the smart men who didn't sign him.

 

Winning matches was then at least a part of it, but there has always been a great reluctance to give Benitez credit for that, with the view often being that he won the wrong ones.

 

He didn't understand the English game, they said, as he went on to win the European Cup, perhaps giving the fans their finest moment in Liverpool memory, something they have, much to the displeasure of the media, been reluctant to forget about ever since. Last season, Liverpool challenged for the title, performing as well as they had in 20 years, beating the teams they were supposed to beat.

 

Now that Liverpool have stopped winning matches, there is no reason to search desperately for reasons to praise Benitez. Liverpool are a team designed for knockIf -out competitions and now they have lost the main feature of teams designed to win knock-out competitions: the ability to win matches.

 

For some perspective out of the reach of the phone-in callers who wonder why Peter Crouch is not playing for Liverpool (Crouch turned down a new contract at Liverpool so it would be an egregious breach of employment law if they continued to select him now) or suggest David Bentley as the missing link, it is worth revisiting Liverpool's January crisis from last season.

 

There were a number of reasons to criticise Benitez last January, but the main one was his treatment of Robbie Keane who, according to the critics, hadn't been given a chance. Keane started nearly every league game during his time at Liverpool but, again, that didn't matter. Keane rarely starts for Tottenham but that is understandable because Peter Crouch and Jermain Defoe are untouchable. If he leaves White Hart Lane, nobody would see it as a failure of Harry Redknapp's famed man-management skills.

 

In some ways, it is the same this season. Liverpool have had a poor time, but, in the context of this crazy season, only the exit from the Champions League has been truly damaging. The FA Cup remains an irrelevance and would have been ignored by those who now stress its importance if Liverpool had won it.

 

The crazies have been bolstered by comments from ex-players like Ronnie Whelan. In the devalued currencies of punditry, Whelan is the Zimbabwean dollar, but he found a few places where his money was good last week.

 

As the phone-in callers deal in the superficial, it is worth contrasting the praise handed out to Alex Ferguson last week, when it became known that he was acting under some severe financial constraints, with the treatment of Benitez. Despite starting with a number of advantages like a massive stadium and a team used to winning titles, United are now utterly dependent on Wayne Rooney. Liverpool, at least, are utterly dependent on two players.

 

Benitez has never known a day at Anfield when the club wasn't being spectacularly badly run. Since the sale to Hicks and Gillett, the problems shared have become problems doubled.

 

Last week, Liverpool's new owners were again giving an indication of how far they had sunk when Tom Hicks Jr resigned after telling a fan in an email to "blow me, f**k face, go to hell, I'm sick of you."

 

This was pithy and to the point but, in the age of outrage, it understandably provoked a lot of anger among Liverpool fans. It did not change their fundamental position on any member of the Hicks family. They wanted them out beforehand and they wanted them out afterwards. Hicks' wild email made no difference and, it has become so normal, that nobody even wonders about the disruption to the team.

 

Nothing that Benitez achieves seems to change the view that Liverpool are in crisis. So this season seems to be a continuation of the bad years, bad years when Benitez was winning against all odds.

 

He has made a few mistakes. Perhaps he should not have talked about Liverpool's debt to such a degree as it has undermined the club and, in constantly looking to re-sign Emile Heskey, he has looked like being the first employee who instigates his own constructive dismissal.

 

He is probably too far gone now. The forces he tried to take on, the media he treated with contempt in particular, create their own momentum and affect confidence. Liverpool are a complex, dysfunctional club and they judge Benitez on the superficial to the end.

 

Liverpool have been talking about their disappointing season since they lost to Aston Villa in August. The reality is that only in recent weeks has the league title become virtually impossible but I would guess privately Benitez hasn't ruled it out.

 

Benitez remains true to a value system that he has employed since he arrived. On Wednesday night, once more he refused to engage and, once more, it was another reason to criticise him. The presenters, the reporters and the phone-in callers all seemed to assume they were more upset about the defeat to Reading than Benitez. In their world, so free of compassion, perspective and insight, they were probably right. In the real world, they were, as so often, wrong.

 

So I hope he stays true to his code as they hound him from the job. He has been a resounding success but it may be time to walk away. He deserves more than the contempt of pundits like Whelan. Benitez cares too much. He should address those who have stacked the odds against him and, one last time, tell the truth in language they might understand: "Blow me, f**k face. Go to hell, I'm sick of you."

[The Chief]

If Liverpool think they are in trouble now, just wait until Rafa walks

 

If Liverpool think they are in trouble now, just wait until Rafa walks - Other Sports, Sport - Independent.ie

 

L iverpool's traditional January crisis has momentum this year. Perhaps this is because it follows on so swiftly from their December crisis which had been directly prefaced by a November crisis that in itself was merely an extension of the October crisis which would not have come about except for their September crisis simply being a continuation of their August crisis that was merely a hangover from their close season debacle.

 

For much of last season they were in crisis too, even for the long periods when they were top of the league. During those troubling times it was generally agreed that Rafael Benitez must be doing something right, although nobody could agree on exactly what it was.

 

The best they could often come up with was the signing of Javier Mascherano. He deserved no credit for signing Fernando Torres. That was a no-brainer, except for all the smart men who didn't sign him.

 

Winning matches was then at least a part of it, but there has always been a great reluctance to give Benitez credit for that, with the view often being that he won the wrong ones.

 

He didn't understand the English game, they said, as he went on to win the European Cup, perhaps giving the fans their finest moment in Liverpool memory, something they have, much to the displeasure of the media, been reluctant to forget about ever since. Last season, Liverpool challenged for the title, performing as well as they had in 20 years, beating the teams they were supposed to beat.

 

Now that Liverpool have stopped winning matches, there is no reason to search desperately for reasons to praise Benitez. Liverpool are a team designed for knockIf -out competitions and now they have lost the main feature of teams designed to win knock-out competitions: the ability to win matches.

 

For some perspective out of the reach of the phone-in callers who wonder why Peter Crouch is not playing for Liverpool (Crouch turned down a new contract at Liverpool so it would be an egregious breach of employment law if they continued to select him now) or suggest David Bentley as the missing link, it is worth revisiting Liverpool's January crisis from last season.

 

There were a number of reasons to criticise Benitez last January, but the main one was his treatment of Robbie Keane who, according to the critics, hadn't been given a chance. Keane started nearly every league game during his time at Liverpool but, again, that didn't matter. Keane rarely starts for Tottenham but that is understandable because Peter Crouch and Jermain Defoe are untouchable. If he leaves White Hart Lane, nobody would see it as a failure of Harry Redknapp's famed man-management skills.

 

In some ways, it is the same this season. Liverpool have had a poor time, but, in the context of this crazy season, only the exit from the Champions League has been truly damaging. The FA Cup remains an irrelevance and would have been ignored by those who now stress its importance if Liverpool had won it.

 

The crazies have been bolstered by comments from ex-players like Ronnie Whelan. In the devalued currencies of punditry, Whelan is the Zimbabwean dollar, but he found a few places where his money was good last week.

 

As the phone-in callers deal in the superficial, it is worth contrasting the praise handed out to Alex Ferguson last week, when it became known that he was acting under some severe financial constraints, with the treatment of Benitez. Despite starting with a number of advantages like a massive stadium and a team used to winning titles, United are now utterly dependent on Wayne Rooney. Liverpool, at least, are utterly dependent on two players.

 

Benitez has never known a day at Anfield when the club wasn't being spectacularly badly run. Since the sale to Hicks and Gillett, the problems shared have become problems doubled.

 

Last week, Liverpool's new owners were again giving an indication of how far they had sunk when Tom Hicks Jr resigned after telling a fan in an email to "blow me, f**k face, go to hell, I'm sick of you."

 

This was pithy and to the point but, in the age of outrage, it understandably provoked a lot of anger among Liverpool fans. It did not change their fundamental position on any member of the Hicks family. They wanted them out beforehand and they wanted them out afterwards. Hicks' wild email made no difference and, it has become so normal, that nobody even wonders about the disruption to the team.

 

Nothing that Benitez achieves seems to change the view that Liverpool are in crisis. So this season seems to be a continuation of the bad years, bad years when Benitez was winning against all odds.

 

He has made a few mistakes. Perhaps he should not have talked about Liverpool's debt to such a degree as it has undermined the club and, in constantly looking to re-sign Emile Heskey, he has looked like being the first employee who instigates his own constructive dismissal.

 

He is probably too far gone now. The forces he tried to take on, the media he treated with contempt in particular, create their own momentum and affect confidence. Liverpool are a complex, dysfunctional club and they judge Benitez on the superficial to the end.

 

Liverpool have been talking about their disappointing season since they lost to Aston Villa in August. The reality is that only in recent weeks has the league title become virtually impossible but I would guess privately Benitez hasn't ruled it out.

 

Benitez remains true to a value system that he has employed since he arrived. On Wednesday night, once more he refused to engage and, once more, it was another reason to criticise him. The presenters, the reporters and the phone-in callers all seemed to assume they were more upset about the defeat to Reading than Benitez. In their world, so free of compassion, perspective and insight, they were probably right. In the real world, they were, as so often, wrong.

 

So I hope he stays true to his code as they hound him from the job. He has been a resounding success but it may be time to walk away. He deserves more than the contempt of pundits like Whelan. Benitez cares too much. He should address those who have stacked the odds against him and, one last time, tell the truth in language they might understand: "Blow me, f**k face. Go to hell, I'm sick of you."

 

That's an excellent read, is the author a Red? cos if he isn't he's the first journo who's given Rafa any credit at all. The highlighted part had me pissing myself laughing, that's brilliant.

[rednich85]

In the devalued currencies of punditry, Whelan is the Zimbabwean dollar, but he found a few places where his money was good last week.

 

That is brilliant!!

 

What a great analogy

 

Is this a blog? I'd be surpised if it was a journo who is published in print

 

Most are too busy sharpening the knives for Johny Foreigner

[rednich85]

Your kidding me right?

 

You must be, you have to be, you are... aren't you?

 

You think David Moores was the person who said Liverpool exist only to win trophies?

 

Please tell me you do

 

 

Ahh, fuck.

 

My mistake

 

Was It Coco Parry

 

If so, point stands

 

I'm fucked off falling out with fellow reds over this shite.

 

You have your opinions, I have mine.

 

I have never felt the need to post on this site until I read some of the bile posted about our manager.

 

I fail to see what benefits a change of manager....at this stage of the season would do.

 

In my book, I'd give him to the end of NEXT season. As you say, he has total control.......let him excercise it.

 

But for those looking for blood now.....what would be the point?

 

I've heard a few people say Kenny could take over until the end of the season, but after a few defeats, King Kenny would become an 'oul scotish bastard.......going by the respect Liverpool managers get from fans nowadays.

 

As reds, we are all hurting. Its not good enough. I know that, you know that, every fucking red on the planet knows it. Rafa and everyone at the club know it.

 

The very least the man deserves is until the end of the season. And a bit of respect from supporters.

 

The yanks must be lapping this up too by the way. Fans so preoccupied with each other and with our poor form that they are getting off the hook.....bigstyle.

[DJLJ]

Ahh, fuck.

 

My mistake

 

Was It Coco Parry

 

If so, point stands

 

I'm fucked off falling out with fellow reds over this shite.

 

You have your opinions, I have mine.

 

I have never felt the need to post on this site until I read some of the bile posted about our manager.

 

I fail to see what benefits a change of manager....at this stage of the season would do.

 

In my book, I'd give him to the end of NEXT season. As you say, he has total control.......let him excercise it.

 

But for those looking for blood now.....what would be the point?

 

I've heard a few people say Kenny could take over until the end of the season, but after a few defeats, King Kenny would become an 'oul scotish bastard.......going by the respect Liverpool managers get from fans nowadays.

 

As reds, we are all hurting. Its not good enough. I know that, you know that, every fucking red on the planet knows it. Rafa and everyone at the club know it.

 

The very least the man deserves is until the end of the season. And a bit of respect from supporters.

 

The yanks must be lapping this up too by the way. Fans so preoccupied with each other and with our poor form that they are getting off the hook.....bigstyle.

 

 

Second time in about a week I've had to use this, what the fuck is happening to the people registering on this site?

[rednich85]

Second time in about a week I've had to use this, what the fuck is happening to the people registering on this site?

 

Who said it?

 

Enlighten me?

 

The only person I remember saying it was David Moores.

 

And After a quick google, I was right

 

“Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies. It has no other purpose” ‘“ David Moores.

 

What the fuck is happening to people registering to this site? Who the fuck do you think you are?

Edited January 18, 2010 by rednich85