If Aquilani turns out to be shit

[Carra_is_legend]

Ever thought about the possibility of it going the other way? This is all becoming eerily Houllier 03-04 to me.

 

Defo.

 

We look like a broken team at times.

 

I'm dreading the next week or so. Two games against Lyon and United sandwiched in between. Absolutely dreading those games.

[Rex Banner]

I'm looking on the bright side, we haven't even lost half of the games we've played yet.

 

It is getting very Houllier like though.

[goatboy59]

If Aquilani is to save Rafa and turn this season around then he's going to have to be one of the best signings the club has ever made. There can be no more excuses for Rafa. He has bought and sold the players he wanted to. His signings' date=' his squad, his team, he picks the players and he decides the tactics.

 

It is painfully obvious that the squad of players he has assembled just isn't good enough. It's either this or he just isn't the man to take us any further. He's made alarming mistakes with his transfers and he should stand up and take responsibility.

 

People are worried about the G+H selling our best players. Well if this continues they wont need much persuading to go. There's already been a steady trickle of players asking to go for one reason or another. Masch, Babel, Alonso if you believe he actually wasn't forced out. Vorronin had to be forced to come back.

 

Given the plight of our club at present what should have been a formality of a game against Lyon on Tuesday has now become one of the most important games in our recent history. We go out the CL at this stage the shit that is currently in mid air will well and truly hit the fan.

 

 

UEM you still offering them odds ?[/quote']

Funny thing is I tried to cheer someone up (no really!) by comparing us to United in 92. They missed out to Leeds when they probably should have won it, and started the following season badly. Missed your chance, another 25 years etc etc. Then they got Cantona.

 

You might be thinking along those lines of "best signings"!

 

I think just seeing Aquilani playing well in a winning Liverpool team might be enough. If we can sort the defence and still allow Johnson to go on his raids, that might just work too.

 

Liverpool managers get the boot when there's no hope at all. Too soon for that, but the signs aren't great admittedly.

[Thomo123]

Horrible start to the season i have to say and i find it hard to relate the current team performances to the tail end of last yr when we seemed to be smashing at least 4 goals against anybody we played. I feel we need a manager to inspire some of our players as too many of them are playing to a level nowhere near the standard required. Maybe its something as simple as getting a couple of good results, getting the confidence up and off we go.

 

The problem is after 3 defeats on the spin we are now looking at a game with Lyon followed by the mancs at old toilet, im an optimist but with the level of confidence we have at the moment i cant see us getting as positive result in either of those games especially if we lose torres and gerrard for the lyon game, even if they play will they be fully fit?? A massive massive wk for us, if we can get a win against lyon scrap a draw with the mancs then maybe it will spark something in the team. As we have seen before we are more than capable of going on a 7-8 game winning streak but realistically looking at present form can anybody see this happening??

[Dougie Do'ins]

Funny thing is I tried to cheer someone up (no really!) by comparing us to United in 92. They missed out to Leeds when they probably should have won it, and started the following season badly. Missed your chance, another 25 years etc etc. Then they got Cantona.

 

You might be thinking along those lines of "best signings"!

 

I think just seeing Aquilani playing well in a winning Liverpool team might be enough. If we can sort the defence and still allow Johnson to go on his raids, that might just work too.

 

Liverpool managers get the boot when there's no hope at all. Too soon for that, but the signs aren't great admittedly.

But Bacon Face didn't go about winning the title back from Leeds by forcing out one of the few world class players in his side and then replace him with someone who wouldn't have been available through injury for the first half of the season.

 

A bit off track here but Rudd Van Horse had failed the medical at UTD and they sent him back and said we'll have another look when he's had the opp and were convinced he's over the injury. I still remember the news footage of Rudd breaking down in training for was it PSV ? because his manager and physio tried to convince the world that UTD had call it wrong.

 

Not us though. We pay out a reported £20m and take a gamble on it.

[Menc]

A bit off track here but Rudd Van Horse had failed the medical at UTD and they sent him back and said we'll have another look when he's had the opp and were convinced he's over the injury. I still remember the news footage of Rudd breaking down in training for was it PSV ? because his manager and physio tried to convince the world that UTD had call it wrong.

 

Not us though. We pay out a reported £20m and take a gamble on it.

 

But Aquilani didn't fail the medical.

[Unrighteous]

I'm looking on the bright side, we haven't even lost half of the games we've played yet.

 

It is getting very Houllier like though.

 

7 Wins, 5 Losses in all competitions... We've also played some of the worst football I've seen at this club.

 

edit: Didn't count the Leeds match so I had to add an extra win.

[Unrighteous]

But Aquilani didn't fail the medical.

 

Having a long term injury is failing the medical. He didn't fail the medical, besides the injury that they knew about...

[Menc]

Having a long term injury is failing the medical. He didn't fail the medical, besides the injury that they knew about...

 

But if the doctors, and by the reports we hired some very expensive ones, decided that the injury would heal properly and that he had no other problems, then surely that's sufficient? Clearly they had more confidence in Aquilani's fitness than the Mancs doctors had in Van Nistelrooys.

 

If he does end up a crock or shit then questions must be asked, but that hasn't happened yet.

[Dan Vito Corleone]

Rafa will live or die by Aquilani, I agree. I'm sure he's a good player and I'm sure he'll add to the team massively, but we needed this from the get go, not in October or possibly November. If he breaks down with an injury then Rafa is in deep shtick.

[Menc]

Rafa will live or die by Aquilani, I agree. I'm sure he's a good player and I'm sure he'll add to the team massively, but we needed this from the get go, not in October or possibly November. If he breaks down with an injury then Rafa is in deep shtick.

 

Agreed. He's going to have to be good enough for the press to be calling us a three man team for the wait to have been worth it.

[Randy Marsh]

What pains me is that, whilst the manager is by no means above criticism, he is the one facing the shit as a result of the sham above him. In a summer where we had just finished 2nd, now was the time when we had to invest big in 2 or 3 world class forward. A top draw striker and a top draw attacking midfielder. We didn't, instead we sold more than we bought and made a fuckin profit, and the manager still is expected to deliver a title winning side. I know this thread is about Aquilani, but the point is that if things where how they should be at this club, Alberto wouldn't have this immense pressure on him before he's kicked a ball as there'd be players already in place to steady the ship. I have no qualms about us buying him as from what I've heard the lad is going to be absolutely shit hot and silence alot of our fans and doubters. I'd much much rather wait a few months for a class act than spend our money on a couple of average makeweights. I don't feel Rafa should be categorised in the "Houllier 02/03" bracket because that is grosely grosely unfair. Gerard had the money to spend, he could've bought Duff and Anelka (who pretty much everyone regarded as the players to take us to th next level) for the same money he bough Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou for. Rafa bought Johnson and Aquilani, two players who will undoubtedly better us, but two players who where merely replacements for player's who'd left (because they wanted to) before them. There was no money for the Silva signing everyone had craved and who we'd been speaking to Valencia about last season, and no money for the striker everyone with a hole in their arse knew we needed. Spin that how you like but those are the facts.

 

He's been given a relegation budget and asked to do a title winning job and the sooner our fans see that, and see that he's a good man fighting our corner caught up in this shit storm, the better for this club. He should just fuck off and go somewhere he'll get the backing financially and supportively that he deserves, because with that I wouldnt bet against him cleaning up at his next club.

[Woo]

Whilst I agree with some of what has been said on both sides of the argument, people forget that last summer, we wasted nearly £40m. That could have bought us 2 or 3 very good players to add to the side, but Rafa spent it poorly.

 

Yes, this season he has had to work on a shoestring, and I feel sorry for him, as he's had his hands tied there, but he's not always had to rummage around in the bargain basement.

 

Really hope Aquilani turns out to be a good signing, or we could face no European football next season.

[Sangria]

Whilst I agree with some of what has been said on both sides of the argument, people forget that last summer, we wasted nearly £40m. That could have bought us 2 or 3 very good players to add to the side, but Rafa spent it poorly.

 

Yes, this season he has had to work on a shoestring, and I feel sorry for him, as he's had his hands tied there, but he's not always had to rummage around in the bargain basement.

 

Really hope Aquilani turns out to be a good signing, or we could face no European football next season.

 

Good post that Woo, not repping you for it but it was good.

[Menc]

What pains me is that, whilst the manager is by no means above criticism, he is the one facing the shit as a result of the sham above him. In a summer where we had just finished 2nd, now was the time when we had to invest big in 2 or 3 world class forward. A top draw striker and a top draw attacking midfielder. We didn't, instead we sold more than we bought and made a fuckin profit, and the manager still is expected to deliver a title winning side. I know this thread is about Aquilani, but the point is that if things where how they should be at this club, Alberto wouldn't have this immense pressure on him before he's kicked a ball as there'd be players already in place to steady the ship. I have no qualms about us buying him as from what I've heard the lad is going to be absolutely shit hot and silence alot of our fans and doubters. I'd much much rather wait a few months for a class act than spend our money on a couple of average makeweights. I don't feel Rafa should be categorised in the "Houllier 02/03" bracket because that is grosely grosely unfair. Gerard had the money to spend, he could've bought Duff and Anelka (who pretty much everyone regarded as the players to take us to th next level) for the same money he bough Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou for. Rafa bought Johnson and Aquilani, two players who will undoubtedly better us, but two players who where merely replacements for player's who'd left (because they wanted to) before them. There was no money for the Silva signing everyone had craved and who we'd been speaking to Valencia about last season, and no money for the striker everyone with a hole in their arse knew we needed. Spin that how you like but those are the facts.

 

He's been given a relegation budget and asked to do a title winning job and the sooner our fans see that, and see that he's a good man fighting our corner caught up in this shit storm, the better for this club. He should just fuck off and go somewhere he'll get the backing financially and supportively that he deserves, because with that I wouldnt bet against him cleaning up at his next club.

 

Yep, because it's easier for people (press included) to point the finger at the manager than to consider the other factors.

 

I personally think Benitez is a very good manager doing a difficult job. Money is being sucked out by the owners, we even closed the transfer window in profit if reports are to be believed, and yet we're surprised when the squad is thin.

 

He's made a lot of mistakes, certainly, the biggest for me being putting too much faith in players like Lucas and Babel rather than shipping them out and trying to improve on them with the cash we got. I also can't get my head around why each season, at some point, we have a period of 5-6 games where our players look like they've never played together before in their lives.

 

My fear though is that the calls for him to go will grow (unless we turn the season around soon), we'll sack him and appoint someone worse, and only then realise that they're still operating under the Yanks and we're in a worse position than before. Benitez meanwhile will probably walk into a job with Milan, Juve, Bayern, or Madrid (give it 6 months) and do very well.

[Royal Family]

We are only 7 points behind, the title is not beyond the realms of possibility of becoming a reality. It's going to be difficult but lets not throw the towel in just yet. Too many defeatists in our support if you ask me.

 

The problem with your view, as i see it, isn't just that it's based on blind faith and optimism, but you clearly think we have the squad and team to win the title. If that is the case, then by implication not only do you think the manager is doing the best possible job (when I and others plainly don't think he is), but so too you must be happy with the owners and the level of finance invested in the squad. I think you're inhabiting a parallel footballing universe, myself, but i guess time will tell...

[WaltonRed]

Whilst I agree with some of what has been said on both sides of the argument, people forget that last summer, we wasted nearly £40m. That could have bought us 2 or 3 very good players to add to the side, but Rafa spent it poorly.

 

Yes, this season he has had to work on a shoestring, and I feel sorry for him, as he's had his hands tied there, but he's not always had to rummage around in the bargain basement.

 

Really hope Aquilani turns out to be a good signing, or we could face no European football next season.

 

Dont feel sorry for him Al, he gets paid handsomely to a job that lets face it he's failing at the minute.

[Walton Park]

We have sold Alonso and replaced him with Aquilani who hasnt had a kick yet. Correct?

We look shit all over the pitch. Correct?

No trophies in 3 seasons. Correct?

No decent wingers in over 5 seasons. Correct?

No youth players looking like breaking through and making a real impact. Correct?

Lets get things right. We all hate the owners but they are no way at fault for all of the shite we are watching.

They never scouted Lucas. They never scouted and paid over £10 million for Babel, and where the fuck is Dossena(another waste). Cant blame the yanks for them.

Throwing the gauntlet down to Ferguson last season and then plays a shit team a day later. The manager has a lot to answer for IMO.

The club is in a right mess.

[johnnyboy]

Whilst I agree with some of what has been said on both sides of the argument, people forget that last summer, we wasted nearly £40m. That could have bought us 2 or 3 very good players to add to the side, but Rafa spent it poorly.

 

QUOTE]

 

I agree to a point but also remember that many were happy with the Robbie Keane signing and Riera looked to be a good addition during a fair wedge of the season - so maybe only Doss and Degen could be classed as desperate mistakes. On top of that I'm convinced that when Rafa sent Keane back to Spurs he believed he'd get the money back for a replacement this summer.

[The 5th Benitel]

Yes he might not have had much to spend this summer but that doesn't excuse losing 5 out of 11. The vast majority of teams we play would love to been given the money he's had over the last 5 years. You cant blame the yanks for us being fucked cos two players getting injured, one of whom was here before Rafa arrived.

 

We've been awful apart from the games against teams who's entire squad cost less than Torres. It's Benitez who has to take responsiblity for that.

[PaulMcC]

We have sold Alonso and replaced him with Aquilani who hasnt had a kick yet. Correct?

We look shit all over the pitch. Correct?

No trophies in 3 seasons. Correct?

No decent wingers in over 5 seasons. Correct?

No youth players looking like breaking through and making a real impact. Correct?Lets get things right. We all hate the owners but they are no way at fault for all of the shite we are watching.

They never scouted Lucas. They never scouted and paid over £10 million for Babel, and where the fuck is Dossena(another waste). Cant blame the yanks for them.

Throwing the gauntlet down to Ferguson last season and then plays a shit team a day later. The manager has a lot to answer for IMO.

The club is in a right mess.

 

How's that his fault? He's only got his men in at the Academy for a few months now.

[Little Sammy]

Don't worry mate. Even my grandad is less shit than Lucas so it's safe to say our squad will be improved once Lucas is put back into his rightful place - on the bench.

[Red Hot]

The problem as I see it is, we don't have enough players willing to die for the cause. If you look back to Shanks sides and so on, LFC players wanted to win, wanted that stray ball, won the 50-50s. Hughes, Souness , Smith the list is endless.

Yes we do have a slim squad, which does not have enough team effort to win games without the matchwinners of SG and Torres. it isn't match winners the present squad is lacking, it is determination and the will to win we are lacking.

We have to roll our sleeves up, get back to basics and start to work as a unit. Having SG, Torres and Benni is all well and good, but team effort is lacking in our present squad for me. this must be adhired for all matches wether it is Port Vale or Barca.

[Walton Park]

How's that his fault? He's only got his men in at the Academy for a few months now.

 

How many kids has he signed since he has taken over. Fucking loads. How many do you think will you see being regulars. None. They were all signed before he was given full reign of the youth set up. Good players will come through no matter what the youth set up is like and as far as I can see, none of his young signings will make it. Nemeth maybe?

[stringvest]

What pains me is that, whilst the manager is by no means above criticism, he is the one facing the shit as a result of the sham above him. In a summer where we had just finished 2nd, now was the time when we had to invest big in 2 or 3 world class forward. A top draw striker and a top draw attacking midfielder. We didn't, instead we sold more than we bought and made a fuckin profit, and the manager still is expected to deliver a title winning side. I know this thread is about Aquilani, but the point is that if things where how they should be at this club, Alberto wouldn't have this immense pressure on him before he's kicked a ball as there'd be players already in place to steady the ship. I have no qualms about us buying him as from what I've heard the lad is going to be absolutely shit hot and silence alot of our fans and doubters. I'd much much rather wait a few months for a class act than spend our money on a couple of average makeweights. I don't feel Rafa should be categorised in the "Houllier 02/03" bracket because that is grosely grosely unfair. Gerard had the money to spend, he could've bought Duff and Anelka (who pretty much everyone regarded as the players to take us to th next level) for the same money he bough Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou for. Rafa bought Johnson and Aquilani, two players who will undoubtedly better us, but two players who where merely replacements for player's who'd left (because they wanted to) before them. There was no money for the Silva signing everyone had craved and who we'd been speaking to Valencia about last season, and no money for the striker everyone with a hole in their arse knew we needed. Spin that how you like but those are the facts.

 

He's been given a relegation budget and asked to do a title winning job and the sooner our fans see that, and see that he's a good man fighting our corner caught up in this shit storm, the better for this club. He should just fuck off and go somewhere he'll get the backing financially and supportively that he deserves, because with that I wouldnt bet against him cleaning up at his next club.

 

I have some sympathy with some of the points made here, but I just can't agree with some of the points made in your last paragraph. He isn't on a relegation budget. He's spent 38 million on two players. Yes, he made a profit this close season, but he has had enough money over previous years to assemble a better squad than the one we've got. Alonso going was down to Benitez imo - though it has to be remembered that Benitex himself thinks we've improved that element of the team by bringing in Aquilani. Johnson looks a great player, though the absence of Alonso and the introduction of a more adventurous right back has brought extra pressure on the defence and a lack of quality service through the midfield.

 

Btw I'm optimistic that Aquilani will prove to be a good buy and bring great things to the team.

 

I have to say I don't agree wholeheartedly with the 'good man fighting our corner' bit. I'm not sure Benitez has always had 'us' or the good of the club in mind while playing out some of his machinations. I think some of his outbursts have been damaging to us in the past, and I am not sure he's doing a particularly good job with the resources he has available to him at the moment.

 

Can you honestly say he's getting the best out of the players we have on a regular basis? Does the team look like more than the sum of its parts? As far as I'm concerned, and I'm sure of those that are reasonably objective, the answer to both of those questions has to be 'no'.

 

So while Benitez isn't the anti-Christ, he really needs to buckle down and get on with the job of getting the most out of what he has.