Rafa and Xabi's relationship

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Here we go again

[Dirk]

I reckon many people will have the same problem as me with a player getting a strop with a manager just trying to do his job and shaping up to refuse to play for us.

 

The article does little other than portray Xabi as a petulant child. Cut. Off. Nose. Spite. Face.

[Brownie]

But the point is, it doesn't attribute blame for their breakdown, and let's face it, every time the breakdown in their relationship was brought up on here, it was always used as a criticism of Benitez. Barrett doesn't say that the breakdown was anyone's fault does he?

 

Well he hints at Alonso not wanting to be cup-tied, so you don't have to be Hercule Poirot to figure it out.

[Brownie]

Here you go, Andy, here's your precious thread.

 

I'm still trying to see where I, 'got my arse handed to me'?

 

You've got a cheek to slag me for closing it when you wrote, 'here we go again'.

 

Damned if you do...

[chorlton]

Still love Xabi. Wish him the best.

 

Hate madrid though, i'd be a very happy chappy if Madrid succumbed to an army of rapist knife wielding ducks (who loved Xabi and left him alone but really messed Ronaldo's face up before fucking him in the eyes with knives)

[Brownie]

Still love Xabi. Wish him the best.

 

Hate madrid though, i'd be a very happy chappy if Madrid succumbed to an army of rapist knife wielding ducks (who loved Xabi and left him alone but really messed Ronaldo's face up before fucking him in the eyes with knives)

 

Haha I echo these sentiments!

 

Welcome back Chorlton.

[Herp McDerp]

I reckon many people will have the same problem as me with a player getting a strop with a manager just trying to do his job and shaping up to refuse to play for us.

 

But he played?

 

By the same logic, while Rafa tried to sell Xabi in 07, he didn't. So surely that means Rafa did nothing wrong?

[KopOut]

Anyone know if he took his girlfriend with him to the continent? maybe SHE'S to blame...I presume she dropped his sprog, so the money would look good, as well as that continental weather.

[RedKnight]

Fail.

[silverlining]

Anyone know if he took his girlfriend with him to the continent? maybe SHE'S to blame...I presume she dropped his sprog, so the money would look good, as well as that continental weather.

 

What?

[philyhamann]

Before Alonso left - "they have no problems, BASCOME BASCOMEB ACOMBEA"

 

Now he has left - "it doesn't matter"

 

hypocrites.

[Brownie]

Before Alonso left - "they have no problems, BASCOME BASCOMEB ACOMBEA"

 

Now he has left - "it doesn't matter"

 

hypocrites.

 

Exactly.

[sh#t waffle]

Exactly.

 

Or, alternatively, the only source of information prior to the move was hysterical forumites, whereas now, from things that Xabi and more than one journalist has said, it seems obvious that there were indeed problems. Which don't, in truth, have to matter that much.

[goatboy59]

There are limits to someone being asked to play, if you had broken your leg and the manager tells you to get up and run it off, I suspect the player's within his rights to tell him to fuck off.

 

And we mean "initially refused" don't we? Alonso faced Liege, despite being forced out to another CL club who would not then be able to use him in the competition for another 7 months.

 

He had a point, didn't he?

 

And despite playing very well, despite burying his differences and despite Liverpool being top, Rafa 'grassed' him up to SoS about Liege. I still don't know if Alonso found out about that, but it brings new meaning to the term 'burying the hatchet'.

[Brownie]

Or, alternatively, the only source of information prior to the move was hysterical forumites, whereas now, from things that Xabi and more than one journalist has said, it seems obvious that there were indeed problems. Which don't, in truth, have to matter that much.

 

Would it be totally out of the question then to expect people to say, 'sorry for calling you a cunt and accusing you of making things up', then? Or is it fine for those people to just continue along the same path making ludicrous suggestions when they hear something they choose not to believe?

 

I remember a long time ago Dave posted on here regarding the Alonso situation. He basically said that he wasn't getting involved and wasn't telling people the things that he knew to be true because it wouldn't be worth it.

 

When you're right, you're right.

[sh#t waffle]

Would it be totally out of the question then to expect people to say, 'sorry for calling you a cunt and accusing you of making things up', then? Or is it fine for those people to just continue along the same path making ludicrous suggestions when they hear something they choose not to believe?

 

I remember a long time ago Dave posted on here regarding the Alonso situation. He basically said that he wasn't getting involved and wasn't telling people the things that he knew to be true because it wouldn't be worth it.

 

When you're right, you're right.

 

I don't think I ever called anyone any names about this, and if I had, while I would probably apologise up to a point, a lot of the problems with the Xabi-Rafa stuff was the way in which the information was delivered; often just as inflamatory and aggressive as those shooting the information down. The last post I had on this before it was locked, and your response, sums up our differences on the subject..I didn't read Barrett's piece and think that there had been a breakdown due to either one of them, but down to both of them.

[Best Believe It]

Would it be totally out of the question then to expect people to say, 'sorry for calling you a cunt and accusing you of making things up', then? Or is it fine for those people to just continue along the same path making ludicrous suggestions when they hear something they choose not to believe?

 

I remember a long time ago Dave posted on here regarding the Alonso situation. He basically said that he wasn't getting involved and wasn't telling people the things that he knew to be true because it wouldn't be worth it.

 

When you're right, you're right.

 

The problem is that this would need to happen across the board, from everyone who is ever wrong about anything, and it doesn't. The vast majority of people on here, whether seasoned poster or not, won't admit when they've got it wrong, despite the evidence to the contrary. Due to the nature of whatever, positions get so entrenched that the debate becomes elevated to a ridiculous level when people lose perspective and it gets all too personal.

 

At that point it's going to be the case when those who have an opinion about something that has happened, without that opinion meaning that they think Rafa/A player/someone else is a cunt, is going to be lumped in with others who are just holding that opinion because it backs up how they feel about someone associated with the club.

[Whelan]

There are limits to someone being asked to play, if you had broken your leg and the manager tells you to get up and run it off, I suspect the player's within his rights to tell him to fuck off.

And we mean "initially refused" don't we? Alonso faced Liege, despite being forced out to another CL club who would not then be able to use him in the competition for another 7 months.

 

He had a point, didn't he?

 

And despite playing very well, despite burying his differences and despite Liverpool being top, Rafa 'grassed' him up to SoS about Liege. I still don't know if Alonso found out about that, but it brings new meaning to the term 'burying the hatchet'.

 

And then put in a completely half arsed performance (which has been forgotten it seems). Which put into context DOESN'T put Xabi in too good a light, whatever way you try to spin it, and also might go someway to explaining why Plessis started against Sunderland?

 

This is the first I have heard of Xabi refusing to play, so don't know where the reference to SOS comes from? But doesn't change my view, Xabi was presented with an opportunity to stick it to Rafa and he took it. Brownie seems to miss the point, we were told that Xabi is so desperate to get away he would have left us for anybody, which has proved to be nonsense, if Madrid hadn't come in for him he would not have left.

 

 

 

 

But I still don't get the point of the thread? I never thought Brownie was wrong, but I did lump him in with people who I thought were 'relishing' the opportunity to stick it to Rafa which is wrong.

[Brownie]

The problem is that this would need to happen across the board, from everyone who is ever wrong about anything, and it doesn't. The vast majority of people on here, whether seasoned poster or not, won't admit when they've got it wrong, despite the evidence to the contrary. Due to the nature of whatever, positions get so entrenched that the debate becomes elevated to a ridiculous level when people lose perspective and it gets all too personal.

 

At that point it's going to be the case when those who have an opinion about something that has happened, without that opinion meaning that they think Rafa/A player/someone else is a cunt, is going to be lumped in with others who are just holding that opinion because it backs up how they feel about someone associated with the club.

 

I agree with the general point you're making there, but I like to think i'm big enough to admit when i'm wrong. I've done it loads of times.

 

I was wrong about Glen Johnson when I thought he was shite (although when I said it in 2008 he was playing shite, and I wanted us to sign him this summer!). I was wrong about Hyypia; didn't rate him after about 5 games.

 

I was wrong about Steve Finnan. And Benayoun.

 

I've been wrong about loads of things when it comes to football. I like to think i've got my fair share right as well, but nobody likes a gloater!

 

I'm just frustrated that certain people who happen to know what was going on between Alonso and Rafa were totally shot down and accused of making things up, and now they're just wanting to forget it all. I think the manly thing to do, would be to hold your hands up, and then move on.

[sh#t waffle]

I agree with the general point you're making there, but I like to think i'm big enough to admit when i'm wrong. I've done it loads of times.

 

I was wrong about Glen Johnson when I thought he was shite (although when I said it in 2008 he was playing shite, and I wanted us to sign him this summer!). I was wrong about Hyypia; didn't rate him after about 5 games.

 

I was wrong about Steve Finnan. And Benayoun.

 

I've been wrong about loads of things when it comes to football. I like to think i've got my fair share right as well, but nobody likes a gloater!

 

I'm just frustrated that certain people who happen to know what was going on between Alonso and Rafa were totally shot down and accused of making things up, and now they're just wanting to forget it all. I think the manly thing to do, would be to hold your hands up, and then move on.

That I can understand, and some of the aggression would have undoubtedly come from people feeling like their information was being dismissed. Can we just accept that quite a few people didn't cover themselves in glory this close season, and hug it out?

[Brownie]

And then put in a completely half arsed performance (which has been forgotten it seems). Which put into context DOESN'T put Xabi in too good a light, whatever way you try to spin it, and also might go someway to explaining why Plessis started against Sunderland?

 

This is the first I have heard of Xabi refusing to play, so don't know where the reference to SOS comes from? But doesn't change my view, Xabi was presented with an opportunity to stick it to Rafa and he took it. Brownie seems to miss the point, we were told that Xabi is so desperate to get away he would have left us for anybody, which has proved to be nonsense, if Madrid hadn't come in for him he would not have left.

 

 

 

 

But I still don't get the point of the thread? I never thought Brownie was wrong, but I did lump him in with people who I thought were 'relishing' the opportunity to stick it to Rafa which is wrong.

 

Why would I relish the opportunity to stick it to anyone? Seriously, what's the point?

 

Why can't you just see it for what it is, a case of a football fan being frustrated that his team is weaker all because of a situation that he feels should never have been allowed to develop?

 

Sometimes it just is what it is.

 

The only times I have ever criticised Rafa is when I believe he is either weakening the team or not giving us the best chance of winning. I think he's happened to that on several occasions.

 

I also think he's happened to build a very good team and deserves a lot of credit for that. But it gets ignored when I say that!

[Best Believe It]

I agree with the general point you're making there, but I like to think i'm big enough to admit when i'm wrong. I've done it loads of times.

 

I was wrong about Glen Johnson when I thought he was shite (although when I said it in 2008 he was playing shite, and I wanted us to sign him this summer!). I was wrong about Hyypia; didn't rate him after about 5 games.

 

I was wrong about Steve Finnan. And Benayoun.

 

I've been wrong about loads of things when it comes to football. I like to think i've got my fair share right as well, but nobody likes a gloater!

 

I'm just frustrated that certain people who happen to know what was going on between Alonso and Rafa were totally shot down and accused of making things up, and now they're just wanting to forget it all. I think the manly thing to do, would be to hold your hands up, and then move on.

 

I completely agree. I was fairly convinced Ryan Babel would be top notch. I also though Christian Ziege would be ace for us. But there are some on here - not including yourself - who won't concede that their football knowledge is in any way open to error and that their opinion is in anyway seperable to fact.

 

But hey, this is the internet.

[Brownie]

That I can understand, and some of the aggression would have undoubtedly come from people feeling like their information was being dismissed. Can we just accept that quite a few people didn't cover themselves in glory this close season, and hug it out?

 

*group hug*

[Whelan]

I'm just frustrated that certain people who happen to know what was going on between Alonso and Rafa were totally shot down and accused of making things up, and now they're just wanting to forget it all. I think the manly thing to do, would be to hold your hands up, and then move on.

 

I am not having a go here, but I read that and think that certain people have been told informatiion from a source, that is favourable to that source, that is all I ever feel about any information given to me.

 

Put it this way, If (I am not) I was friends with Montse in some way and I got information that Xabi refused to play against Standard Lieige, had been talking to Madrid since March and I repeated this one here, I bet it would have read as a riposte to other posters who have been told Rafa is trying to force him out and I would have been slated for it, by those who have been given different information.

 

In this context the information is really only an opinion from one side, unless those people have also garnered the opinion of Rafa (which they haven't I think).

[Catch22]

Would it be totally out of the question then to expect people to say, 'sorry for calling you a cunt and accusing you of making things up', then? Or is it fine for those people to just continue along the same path making ludicrous suggestions when they hear something they choose not to believe?

 

I remember a long time ago Dave posted on here regarding the Alonso situation. He basically said that he wasn't getting involved and wasn't telling people the things that he knew to be true because it wouldn't be worth it.

 

When you're right, you're right.

 

 

 

No one accussed you of making things up.

If they did, then you have a right to be angry as you clearly weren't.

 

However, it was & still remains naive to think that a man moving jobs for an 85% pay rise was primarilly doing so for anything other than for the money.

 

Yesterday was a PR interview, arranged by his agents for which he was almost certainly coached by his agent's PR people.

 

It is exactly the same as every interview which a player who moves for money gives & remains as lacking in truth.

 

Adbeyaour claimed he didn't move for money; Tevez claimed he didn't move for money (& ludicrously that City weren't the Manc's rivals); Lescott claimed that he didn't move for money.

All of them were white lies & were mocked.

 

Indeed, you yourself mocked Lucas Neill when he made identical claims (Rafa didn't want him enough) to Xabi

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/41545-why-lucas-neill-choose-hammers.html

 

"Haha what a tit.

 

Wonder if he was watching the game today or sat at home counting his money?"

 

Why has your correct sceptical tone changed?

 

Xabi's actions with regard to delaying his transfer request repeatedly showed that it was about money.

 

Moreover when he gave an interview in Spanish which his PR team had not vetted for English consumption, he admitted as much.

 

Xabi was a great player & a loyal servant to this club: moving for cash doesn't make him a mercenary or a cunt but a human being: it is precisely what i would have done.

 

Moreover, the fact that he left for cash & for a deal that we couldn't possibly match, does not let Rafa off the hook.

He wanted to sell him last year for a price that was way too cheap.

That was an error of judgement & it is right to be critical of him.

 

However every single neutral I have spoken to on this knows full well that Xabi primarilly left for financial reasons

Exactly the same as you (as a non fan of those clubs) know exactly why Tevez,Barry,Adebayour & Lescott moved.

 

If we found an Arse website where people believed Adebayour's claims that he moved for anyother reasons, then we would laugh at it.

 

The same criteria apply.