Dubai and Liverpool FC

[Neil G]

RBS will know its not only the Liverpool fans they would be pissing they would be pissing of Dubai Holding, who have a lot of financial clout around the world.

 

I wonder if Dubai Holding will mention to RBS of some potential investment that could come their way if they refused the extension on the loan.

 

Like a new stadium perhaps?

 

If the Sheikh buys us he won't pay for the stadium out of his own pocket, he'll borrow the money and secure it against his own assets and/or future income from the stadium. Whichever bank lends him the money will be guaranteed a secure return for a good while to come, maybe 20 years or more. RBS would be mental to pass that opportunity up just to get a few bob extra from Twit and Twat.

[Unrighteous]

Like a new stadium perhaps?

 

If the Sheikh buys us he won't pay for the stadium out of his own pocket, he'll borrow the money and secure it against his own assets and/or future income from the stadium. Whichever bank lends him the money will be guaranteed a secure return for a good while to come, maybe 20 years or more. RBS would be mental to pass that opportunity up just to get a few bob extra from Twit and Twat.

 

Definitely.

 

I'm sure they'll look to RBS for other ventures as well or COULD offer them.

[AndMjaa]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-ALQyVDJM4[/YOUTUBE]

[Anubis]

How about a few thousand of us wasting their 'valuable' time. Book in to see their new account/new business/mortgage/pension advisors. Waste a good half hour of their time with stupid questions, and even form filling, before announcing you were never serious and that it's part of the protest against any extension of the loan agreement to G&H. Then politely ask them to pass the message along to management.

[Red Phoenix]

It's great to see that stuff really seems to be moving now. I know the Man City takeover is being seen as another nail in the coffin of football in general, but when it comes to this ongoing situation with H & G, the Man City takeover might just be looked back on as the thing that really started off the end of them. There's been an instant pick-up in interest about the DIC bid from fans and the press, SOS are thinking about hitting the Back of Scotland, more ideas are going around about what can be done in other forms of protest, and the whole mood seems to be a lot better when it comes to H & G looking less and less likely to remain as owners for much longer.

 

I hope this idea with the bank carries on though and really picks up, as with some of the other ideas, because even though I'm not sure about what's happened with regards to Texas Rangers fans, I think what we will do is really going to shock these bastards. It feels like Man City having been taken over has really got things moving, and that we might shortly be taking this thing to a whole new level, and I just hope it gains momentum. The SOS should get bigger and bigger as this goes on now, and here's hoping they actually carry out and have big support and publicity with their plans, if they're seen as a good enough ideas.

 

One other thing that could work : Some of us are thinking about how this could be taken up in America aswell, to hit them on their own turf so to speak, well : How about sometype of proper co-ordinated effort between our fans and the Texas Rangers fans? It seems like it could be hard, but shit, we have the internet, and something like this could be sorted out quite easily if enough effort was put into it and the right people organised it. Because if that worked, then Hicks, who's already in a rough position as far as most reports go, would then have two clubs with fans going mad, and if the protests ended up being continual and gathered pace, he might find himself in a really fucked up situation.

 

As with flyers and half time walkouts, like some fans have already kind of said : we have to be really careful not to affect the players on the pitch, because this could mess up one or more of their games, split the fans and make things even worse. So if there was a half time walkout the game picked would have to be something that minimises this damage. If you asked me though, I'd say the Crewe match on the 23rd. It's the carling cup isn't it? That's gotta be the one that would cause the least damage, but it could still generate massive publicity if done. I'm not too confident though, because even though this stuff is being mentioned, will it actually happen and on a big enough scale? Only if there's a proper mass effort and that will take a lot of fans.

 

The leaflet idea is great too though. I was thinking about this about a week or so ago, and if you printed shitloads off, split them up between a group of you, and then handed them out so that as many people as possible in say, the kop got hold of them, then the confusion angle would be gone, and you'd instantly have many times the amount of people joining in with you. Another thing you could use this for would be mass half time chants that don't affect the players or the game aswell. Get a good, clear and simple chant worded, print it in big bold letters in each leaflet, try and hand everyone in the kop one before half time by getting a group of you with enough to hand out, then just start up the biggest anti-H&G protest that the kop has ever seen, the instant that the players have left the pitch, and just remember to make sure that it's stopped when they get back out. This could be instructed on the leaflet. (with a better wording, etc, but for example) :

 

Feel free to join in with us as we sing this at half time, if you want to join us in our anti Hicks and Gillett protest and help us fight back with more effect, in our attempts to stop Tom Hicks and George Gillett from driving our club into the ground. But remember that we STOP the second that the players come back onto the pitch, because even though we're stepping up our efforts at getting rid of these useless owners, the last thing we aim to do is affect our own players and their performances on the pitch :

 

words of chant'

 

I'd love to see something like that really, because the kop would be immense if it worked, the publicity would be insane aswell because of the sheer amount of support from the kop in making it so loud and noticeable, and the players would still have their fans behind them for the second half. In facct, the fans would probably be so charged after that, that the support would be unbelievable when the second half kicked off, and the other team would probably cack themselves. I'm not suggesting that a half time walk out is wrong, it might work way better, but it's just another idea.

 

Anyway, regardless of what happens, is great to see that this seems to be really picking up pace now.

 

COME ON YOU REDS

 

 

(sorry for any typos, unclear parts, etc, that was kind of a long post.)

[Moschops II]

To be fair SOS was in it's infancy last time.

What we need now, IMO, is an orchestrated campaign against RBS and all the companies it owns (Natwest, Direct Line, Lombard Direct off the top of my head alone). If SOS could contact every single LFC supporters club in the world explaining how such a campaign could put pressure on the yanks to sell up then that's one hell of a lot of reds being reached just at the click of a mouse. They could even draw up template letters explaining to these companies that you'd seriously consider moving account or cancelling your insurance renewal if they continue to back G+H.

Think about it, if we spread the word to enough people and even just a fraction of them send a letter threatening to withdraw custom then they'll have to take notice. I know it's a hassle changing bank accounts etc. but if we act now then hopefully it won't even come to that.

 

I should have been clearer - I think SOS and the fans can have a real impact on RBS, and some of the ideas being kicked around on here are excellent.

 

I think Dubai will continue to contribute nothing of any value.

[Red Phoenix]

How about a few thousand of us wasting their 'valuable' time. Book in to see their new account/new business/mortgage/pension advisors. Waste a good half hour of their time with stupid questions, and even form filling, before announcing you were never serious and that it's part of the protest against any extension of the loan agreement to G&H. Then politely ask them to pass the message along to management.

 

Then we're annoying them instead of simply choosing to take our money elsewhere, and that could really get their backs up and make things worse. I wouldn't think it'd be too good of an idea, especially if we're trying our hardest to get their support in helping us against H & G themselves.

[Red Phoenix]

this is a serious question and not a dig - if you care so little why do you spend your free time on an LFC message board and not doing something else with your time? My guess is you care a whole lot more than you want to admit. Get off your arse and join the union and be a part of the fight.

 

Pretty much agreed, but I think that generating ideas on message boards and being part of the union is just as good an idea, because it helps us work out better things to do aswell. I joined about a week or two ago but haven't been posted anything yet. Should I be waiting for something to be posted with more info, or do I just wait for the right e-mails to arrive and then see what I can get involved in from there?

[Barrington Womble]

He's in work like the rest of us. Even debating Hicks and fucknuts in better then work.

 

 

there are still other things you could do with your time - football is not the only thing in the world.

[Barrington Womble]

Of course i still care deep down mate. I love the club and it's a huge part of my life (as you say, i wouldn't be here if it wasn't), but i'm just so worn out with it all and so apathetic to it at the moment. The last few days have really taken the edge off for me.

 

I know that feeling and many days I feel like that. Then I stop and think about it. The are stealing your club from you. It would be like living in a estate where there's been loads of break ins, then you catch someone breaking in and shrug your shoulders and let him get on with it as you think "fuck it, this estate is not what it used to be anyway". You wouldn't let him steal from your house and you shouldn't let these pair of cunts steal your club from you.

[PaulMcC]

I know that feeling and many days I feel like that. Then I stop and think about it. The are stealing your club from you. It would be like living in a estate where there's been loads of break ins, then you catch someone breaking in and shrug your shoulders and let him get on with it as you think "fuck it, this estate is not what it used to be anyway". You wouldn't let him steal from your house and you shouldn't let these pair of cunts steal your club from you.

 

What can peopel do though? They feel helpless.

[WaltonRed]

What can peopel do though? They feel helpless.

 

Keep the faith, all will come good.

 

'Walk on through the wind walk on through the rain though your dreams be tossed and blown'

 

You dont give up, the club is your club, you support them, you love them, whether we are owned by two fucking clowns or by some rich arabs or we are in administration in division 2 you fucking support them, through thick and thin!

 

COME ON!

[Barrington Womble]

I have watched the club I have adored for 30 years be dragged through the mud, had it's dirty washing aired in public, scenes of undermining the manager, lies, lies and even more lies., false promises and a campaign form the inside to get the manager out because he is the only out of 4 that actually truly cares about the club. I am seeing more support go in the way of the board than I am of the manager, and that for me is why people like snez1 and myself are falling out love with the club and the game itself. People still harp on that it is not the Liverpool Way to do this or to do that, but the Liverpool Way died on Tuesday, 6 February 2007 in a PR exercise of bullshit and false friendships.

 

I have nothing but adulation in people believing they can make a difference, but realistically, but the question is what change can be made?

 

What are the Union doing to make people like myself believe that they can make a difference, I have read the website and nothing has convinced me this is as an great idea any more.

 

There are many unanswered questions about SoS I have.

 

What happened the protests and such like?

 

What impact do you really think Liverpool fans boycotting RBS will have?

 

What do I get for my subscription into the Union?

 

What happens when they don't start doing things they say they do or I start to realise that i am not getting what i paid for?

 

What impact have SoS had at match days, in terms of getting their point across to the fans at the game?

 

How are SoS educating people about Hicks and Gillete?

 

How come the aggressive stance towards the owners changed?

 

What prompted them to have the meeting with Parry (one of the main culprits of our current situation), and how what was the overall feeling from the union members?

 

This not a pop at Sos or yourself Barry, this is just to try and understand why I should still feel the same way about my club as i used to.

 

Without answering point by point - most of those questions will be answered on saturday. There are protests plannned. You've seen the back page of today's echo as one of the ideas on how to get rid of the cunts.

 

Finally, I really wish people would stop having the attitude "what have the SoS done lately". Please, please stop thinking about the SoS as a "them" and think of it more as an "us". It's your union, it's for Liverpool fans and it can only ever be as stong as the membership. Join, have your say and watch how with a strong and powerful voice, coupled with a wide range of ideas we can make a difference.

[Barrington Womble]

How about a few thousand of us wasting their 'valuable' time. Book in to see their new account/new business/mortgage/pension advisors. Waste a good half hour of their time with stupid questions, and even form filling, before announcing you were never serious and that it's part of the protest against any extension of the loan agreement to G&H. Then politely ask them to pass the message along to management.

that is exactly the type of thing that makes a difference.

[PaulMcC]

Keep the faith, all will come good.

 

'Walk on through the wind walk on through the rain though your dreams be tossed and blown'

 

You dont give up, the club is your club, you support them, you love them, whether we are owned by two fucking clowns or by some rich arabs or we are in administration in division 2 you fucking support them, through thick and thin!

 

COME ON!

 

I'm not giving up at all but i don't think there's anything i can personally do to get them out.

[Barrington Womble]

Pretty much agreed, but I think that generating ideas on message boards and being part of the union is just as good an idea, because it helps us work out better things to do aswell. I joined about a week or two ago but haven't been posted anything yet. Should I be waiting for something to be posted with more info, or do I just wait for the right e-mails to arrive and then see what I can get involved in from there?

 

I think there were some issues with the membership cards and they had to go back to the printers. I do know a lot of things were posted this week. If you don't get anything by the middle of next week, go to the SoS website and drop a mail to the contact address on there.

[Anubis]

Then we're annoying them instead of simply choosing to take our money elsewhere, and that could really get their backs up and make things worse. I wouldn't think it'd be too good of an idea, especially if we're trying our hardest to get their support in helping us against H & G themselves.

I disagree. Doing things like this AND taking your money elsewhere disrupt their legitimate business and cost them money. Banks do not like losing money. It conmcentrates their attention on G&H's liability.

[Barrington Womble]

What can peopel do though? They feel helpless.

 

I think the back page of today's echo should give people all the guidance they need. Think of how you could interupt RBS/Natwest business if you wanted.

[Red Phoenix]

I think there were some issues with the membership cards and they had to go back to the printers. I do know a lot of things were posted this week. If you don't get anything by the middle of next week, go to the SoS website and drop a mail to the contact address on there.

 

Ok, will do that if nothing arrives, cheers.

 

I disagree. Doing things like this AND taking your money elsewhere disrupt their legitimate business and cost them money. Banks do not like losing money. It conmcentrates their attention on G&H's liability.

 

Maybe you're right, I just thought it could be something that'd make them wound up at us more than anything else.

[andyj]

or how about this to kick things off

RBS Business Banking | Feedback

a few thousand POLITE complaints may get there attention aswell

 

also what about picketing local branches i mean there are LFC supporters in every town there is a branch now that would hit the news!!!

 

just a couple of ideas to throw into the pot

[Barrington Womble]

I'm not giving up at all but i don't think there's anything i can personally do to get them out.

 

OK ... the yanks have a loan that they took out last january. They got that loan partly as it was secured on assets they have in the US. Those assets are no longer assets, as the value of the stocks has sunk so much their debt on each of their ventures outweighs the worth of their company/investment. RBS thought loaning to them last year was a significant risk - they only agreed to do it by backing off part of the debt to Wachovia. Wachovia are in as bad a state as any bank out there at the moment, some even think they could be the next to go to the wall. RBS have recently recorded record losses. Both banks are in a worse position than they were 9 months ago when they granted the loan. No other bank out there wanted to touch these two with a shitty stick. It was seen as too much of a risk to loan to them - it's an even greater risk now.

 

This loan expires in January. They have an option of another 6 months, but if rumours are to be believed this extension is at the discretion of RBS, so it is not a forgone conclusion it will be extended. And here lies our "in".

 

RBS will already be considering if this loan is worth extending - market conditions (including the paper wealth of the twat twins) have changed considerably since January 2008. If we target RBS in such a way that they understand in extending a loan to G&H could bring the losses in other areas of the business, it increases the risk on that loan. In the grand scheme of things, I feel RBS would be mental to take such a risk in the current market on what is already a massively risky agreement. We as Liverpool fans need to target the entire RBS group - not just closing accounts, doing all within our power to disrupt their business. If we act together, if we act in numbers, we are not helpless and we can have a massive impact. Just ask Rupert Murdoch. Just ask the idiot who thought up the carlsberrg/sun ad campaign. When we act in numbers with thought and target our enemy properly, we can achieve anything we want.

[JohnnyH]

there are still other things you could do with your time - football is not the only thing in the world.

 

How dare you!

[redrosetints]

Not really - because for every member of SoS who did that, there'd be some muppet who would take his place. There are just 44,000 tickets in the stadium, they fill them with or without the help of the SoS members. However, RBS have no limits on how many people can bank with them (or Natwest). They have no limits on how many people will take out insurance, credit cards or mortgages. And every penny you take from RBS, in all probablility you will give to a competitor, so in effect they get a double hit.

 

I think RBS have a simple business decision - piss off LFC fans and potentially lose their business and take with it all the negative publicity that goes with it or the lose the profit they are making from G&H - which by all accounts they are questioning the risk of on pure financial terms at the moment anyway.

 

 

Yes I agree with all that on RBS, there business decision is do Liverpool fans genreate enough business to fuck off a 350m loan and 30m in repayments each year ? Im doubtful they do. And while Hicks and Gillet can sustain the payments, why would the bank turn them away ?

[Code]

Sorry mate dont want to piss on your bonfire but the days of proper footy are gone.

No longer can a lad from bootle hope to play for liverpool. That for me is the end of it. While clubs are signing 17 year olds from south america, oil rich megabillionaires are buying clubs, gangsters from Russia are splashing cash that makes Roman look like a tinker.

Its all shite.

We should lead the fuck it off revolution.

 

If the lad from Bootle is prepared to do all the hard work that will be needed to get the chance to play for a club like Liverpool and actually has got the talent he has got a better chance than most people to actually get the chance.

 

But the English youth system and football philosophy needs to change, its not about nationality its about skill and thats what stops local kids from breaking through, hard work is not enough any more, you need to stand out and have superb qualities, if not you will end up like most local kids brought through from the academy, playing your trade in the lower divisions where hard work will actually get you somewhere.

[philyhamann]

We will see what SoS's ideas are on Saturday, hopefully there are some good ideas floating around.