Realistically, what does the season hold for us now?

[109_ultra]

The dregs left of the season now are:-

1. Finishing 4th

2. Having a good run in the champions league

3. Stuffing the shite at home

4. Winning at the scum

5. Driving the yanks out (surely the most important aim?)

 

And to think i was predicting a title tilt back in september

[Brownie]

It's impossible to predict what will happen. We could get twatted by Inter or we could win the CL! The latter is highly unlikely at the moment though.

 

I think Rafa is definitely going to leave in the summer but who we'll get in as a replacement, I have no idea.

 

There's definitely been factors which have made Rafa's job much harder than it should be, but the signs were there beforehand anyway that his methods weren't getting the best out of us in the league. Unfortunately that seems to have spread to the cups as well now.

 

I find it staggering that anyone could suggest that we should keep him in charge after the summer. He's clearly lost the players and I doubt he'll ever get them back, and by the end of the season it will probably be two seasons without a trophy and a possibility of no CL football.

[109_ultra]

It's impossible to predict what will happen. We could get twatted by Inter or we could win the CL! The latter is highly unlikely at the moment though.

 

I think Rafa is definitely going to leave in the summer but who we'll get in as a replacement, I have no idea.

 

There's definitely been factors which have made Rafa's job much harder than it should be, but the signs were there beforehand anyway that his methods weren't getting the best out of us in the league. Unfortunately that seems to have spread to the cups as well now.

 

I find it staggering that anyone could suggest that we should keep him in charge after the summer. He's clearly lost the players and I doubt he'll ever get them back, and by the end of the season it will probably be two seasons without a trophy and a possibility of no CL football.

 

I think we should 'lose' those particular players from our squad then because as professionals they owe a duty to keep integrity and to do their utmost best for the club.

 

Who could we realistically get who could do better than rafa on the budget he would have under the current owners?

[Brownie]

I think we should 'lose' those particular players from our squad then because as professionals they owe a duty to keep integrity and to do their utmost best for the club.

 

Who could we realistically get who could do better than rafa on the budget he would have under the current owners?

 

I have no idea who is available, but hopefully the ownership will be sorted by the summer anyway.

 

If the players lose faith in the manager, then you change the manager not the players, IMO.

[Croque Monsieur]

I think we should 'lose' those particular players from our squad then because as professionals they owe a duty to keep integrity and to do their utmost best for the club.

 

Who could we realistically get who could do better than rafa on the budget he would have under the current owners?

 

Absolute wibble. Those players don't know if they'll be playing from one week to the next. How the hell can they expext to play like a team? The substitution of Babel was an act of perversity on a grand scale. I lost all faith in Rafa today.

 

I don't really give a fuck who we get (yes, that's the ale talking), but I hope it's someone who doesn't take their best player off when we're chasing the game and replace them with a useless turd.

 

(In mitigation that goalie had the game of his life. Next week he'll ship three against the likes of fucking Colchester, or whoever's in division two these days. Massimo Taibi anyone?)

[109_ultra]

Any talk of rafa leaving in the summer is premature, at least until the ownership of the club is sorted anyway. Who would have the balls to sack him after the public backing? And would anybody trust the cowboys to appoint a successor? Its a sad state of affairs when the club is devoid of any leadership at board level...the only result is that until that changes i believe rafa is actually above the sack.

[Croque Monsieur]

Any talk of rafa leaving in the summer is premature, at least until the ownership of the club is sorted anyway. Who would have the balls to sack him after the public backing? And would anybody trust the cowboys to appoint a successor? Its a sad state of affairs when the club is devoid of any leadership at board level...the only result is that until that changes i believe rafa is actually above the sack.

 

Who cares? You may as well have a lunatic in charge for all the bizarre decisions Rafa makes. Yes, I'm pissed and very pissed off. Today was a watershed for me. Those lads who carry that picture of Rafa around like a religious icon need to have a good look at themselves.

[109_ultra]

Who cares? You may as well have a lunatic in charge for all the bizarre decisions Rafa makes. Yes, I'm pissed and very pissed off. Today was a watershed for me. Those lads who carry that picture of Rafa around like a religious icon need to have a good look at themselves.

 

A guy who takes you to 2 european cup finals in 3 years has earned his respect. Had one of the 12 chances we missed/their goalie saved gone in you might be feeling different. The shock has come at the worst possible time for rafa. I accept that the substituion of babel was stupid. It said more about kewell (who should be released now IMO) than it did rafa but he deserves more time. Even if it is because i dont trust anyone else at the club.

[Croque Monsieur]

A guy who takes you to 2 european cup finals in 3 years has earned his respect. Had one of the 12 chances we missed/their goalie saved gone in you might be feeling different. The shock has come at the worst possible time for rafa. I accept that the substituion of babel was stupid. It said more about kewell (who should be released now IMO) than it did rafa but he deserves more time. Even if it is because i dont trust anyone else at the club.

 

Indeed he has. However, we got lucky in one final (sacrilege!), and possibly lost the other one due to Rafa's strange team selection policy. But that's an entirely different argument.

All I know is we've just been beaten by fucking Barnsley at home and are once again out of contention in the league by Christmas. Our 'football' is utterly appalling, we are a dreadful team to behold. I have just watched our manager take our best player (on the day) off the pitch and replace him with a man who is quite clearly past his best. My faith in Rafa is being sorely tested.

[Paco]

In 2005 we were dogged by injuries, that's not really true at the moment.

 

I think Rafa is at his best when his hand is forced. When he is faced with a lot of injuries or suspensions and only has a certain amount of players to pick from we seem to do better. When he has 20 odd players to choose from thats when he makes mistakes. In 2005 we had such a small squad he was forced into playing a team. If a player was suspended or injured he had very little option other than to play Biscan or Le Tallec and some how it worked but when he has a lot of players to choose from he doesn't seem to know what his best team is. Ironically in 2005 when he did have a choice to make he made the wrong one bringing in Kewell for hamann and only when his hand was forced by kewell going off injured then we succeed.

 

To be honest I don't know what our best team is at the minute as so many are playing so poorly. What I do know is that Gerrard and Mascherano should be playing in midfield and Torres should be up front with someone.

I will not be surprised if we beat inter on Tuesday (we better as i'll be getting up at 4am on wednesday to watch it ) and all will be forgiven for a while because after all we are at our best in the champions league under Rafa. I'm really disappointed and embarrassed we lost today but i'm not that surprised. it was the same against Reading before the Marseille game. We, all of us, fans, manager, players, took it for granted that we would win this game and already had our attention on Inter and we got a rude awakening again. I'm still with Rafa. as I said before crimbo, I'll make my mind up at the end of the season. We've improved ever so slightly in the league this season in that we were still in it in early December. We're still miles behind the best teams in the league. We had a great chance to win the FA cup and should have beaten Barnsley today as we had a team of internationals out there. Even if rafa isn't here next season Liverpool still need to be in the CL and that will only happen if we win it or get fourth in the league so there is still lots to play for.

[Rashid]

It's impossible to predict what will happen. We could get twatted by Inter or we could win the CL! The latter is highly unlikely at the moment though.

 

I think Rafa is definitely going to leave in the summer but who we'll get in as a replacement, I have no idea.

 

There's definitely been factors which have made Rafa's job much harder than it should be, but the signs were there beforehand anyway that his methods weren't getting the best out of us in the league. Unfortunately that seems to have spread to the cups as well now.

 

I find it staggering that anyone could suggest that we should keep him in charge after the summer. He's clearly lost the players and I doubt he'll ever get them back, and by the end of the season it will probably be two seasons without a trophy and a possibility of no CL football.

 

I have become a moaning cunt since Houllier and Rafa came here and people won't believe me when I say this but I never moaned under Evans . I genuinely did think Evans needed replacing in the end but I wouldn't have been arsed if he wasn't. One of the reasons for that is that our team played good football, they had a go at everyone they played and you could see the players enjoyed their football. I can't say that about the players under GH or Rafa now. I know players love winning and it doesn't matter about style of play but I definitely feel a stifling game doesn't work long term although Fabio Capello and the Italians have proved me otherwise. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't swap Rafa for Evans - they are 10 classes apart - but Rafa has seriously missed a trick by concentrating more on Pro-Zone than the finer arts of football. We are a team that can't finish - no amount of prozone will change that.

 

That said I still think we will do well in the CL as that is Rafa's competition. It is weird how he never did great in it at Valencia - probably because he was concentrating on winning leagues there. I often wonder how Rafa would do in the CL if like Fergie he was fighting on all fronts in April and May.

 

Every season under Rafa we seem to be concentrating on the cups by December and with the players "fresh" it is no wonder we start out powering teams in the latter stages of the season especially as the league is always already gone.

 

So I agree, I couldn't see the argument for keeping Rafa as soon as the league challenge didn't materialise this season. Like Houllier, I think it would be pointless and wrong to continue to let him live off his finest moment. The truth is that we have competed more with Everton than we have Man United in the league and that is a sackable offence.

[Paul]

How has he been poor in the transfer market overall? He's brought in Reina, Agger, Arbeloa, Mascherano, Alonso, and Torres for pretty reasonable money and any player that hasn't worked out has been moved on with no great loss. The idea that you just keep all your cash for one big signing is great until that signing gets injured and you are fucked.

 

Because overall he has spent too high proportion of his funds on players who have done nothing to improve the first team. He has, with the exception of the players you mention above, merely brought in squad level players to replace squad level players. You bring in one or two (or whatever you can aford) quality players to improve the team and then the dross drops to the bench.

 

I fail to see how your point about injuries is relevant as the bulk of players he's brought in have been no better than those he's let go. If Torres is injured, how is Kuyt any better of an option than Cisse or Baros? He already had back ups at the club - they just weren't his back ups. He should have kept the bulk of that CL winning squad and just added one or two first teamers a season. I know this forum is full of Djimi haters, but we haven't had a more effective left back than him in Rafa's time here.

 

Sorry, I haven't read anymore of this thread but do you still get Dirk kuyt?

 

What do you mean "still"? I've never "got" Dirk Kuyt.

[MLB]

His record in the transfer market is broadly comparable to Houllier's, I'd say, except he hasn't had a trifects of shite like Diao, Diouf and Cheyrou to tip the balance against him. He's bought a mix of the very good, the average and the shite. It's what he's done with the players that's the real problem.

[Rashid]

And in fairness to that twat Houllier he did sign a couple of players who went on to be outstanding for us be it with him or Rafa - Hyypia, Hamann, Finnan to name but 3.

[Guest ian garro]

I have become a moaning cunt since Houllier and Rafa came here and people won't believe me when I say this but I never moaned under Evans . I genuinely did think Evans needed replacing in the end but I wouldn't have been arsed if he wasn't. One of the reasons for that is that our team played good football, they had a go at everyone they played and you could see the players enjoyed their football.

 

Thats a load of shite. We may have played decent football for about 18 months of however long he was in charge, but that was more luck than judgement. He had 2 or 3 players like Fowler and MacManaman who were really on top of their game - he didnt bring them in, it was just a happy coincidence. When they went off the boil or were injured, we stunk. Nearly every player he brought in was a failure.

 

They showed a replay of us Vs Barnsley from 97-98, on LFCtv the other night, we were so poor it hurt. A back 4 of Rob Jones (who was well past his best), Babb, Matteo and Harkness. That says it all about Evans.

 

The last 2 years he was here, he showed himself to tactically inept, whilst also having the piss completely taken out of him by his players - yet you wouldnt have minded if he had stayed. Nice one.

[Bellflower]

I really didn't want to post this as I can imagine what the reaction will be but fuck it.

 

I got told by someone related to one of the highest ranking members of the club (no I won't be naming names) that Gerrard and Carragher both want Rafa gone.

Could well be bullshit but it honestly wouldn't surprise me.

 

Either way don't shoot the messenger as i'm simply passing on what I've heard.

If that really is the case then get rid. The man has enabled them to win the highest available trophy they can realistically expect now. Dislike Rafa yes, a lot of people don't like their boss but they get on with it , but having a sulk and not bothering is an insult to all the Scousers they profess to do everything for , as well as complete disrespect for the shirt they are so privileged to wear................

[Spy Bee]

He should have kept the bulk of that CL winning squad

 

No he shouldn't. That squad massively overachieved in one competition.

 

Smicer, Biscan, Josemi, Cisse, Baros, Dudek, Nunez - they're going to win you the league aren't they? Not to mention Potter and Daio who were there to lift the trophy.

 

I can't believe you are being so one-eyed about this now Paul.

[WaltonRed]

No he shouldn't. That squad massively overachieved in one competition.

 

Smicer, Biscan, Josemi, Cisse, Baros, Dudek, Nunez - they're going to win you the league aren't they? Not to mention Potter and Daio who were there to lift the trophy.

 

I can't believe you are being so one-eyed about this now Paul.

 

I think Paul means rather than replace them with players of the same or less ability.

 

Cisse/Baros are they not better than Kuyt/Voronin?

[theRedHorse]

No he shouldn't. That squad massively overachieved in one competition.

 

Smicer, Biscan, Josemi, Cisse, Baros, Dudek, Nunez - they're going to win you the league aren't they? Not to mention Potter and Daio who were there to lift the trophy.

 

I can't believe you are being so one-eyed about this now Paul.

 

Indeed.

 

What happened to you Paul?

[theRedHorse]

I think Paul means rather than replace them with players of the same or less ability.

 

Cisse/Baros are they not better than Kuyt/Voronin?

 

Kuyt and Voronin are much more intelligent than Cisse/Baros.

 

That is why Rafa got rid of the previous 2. Kuyt has hit bad form, and I honestly think Voronin is better than what we've seen from him recently.

[WaltonRed]

Kuyt and Voronin are much more intelligent than Cisse/Baros.

 

That is why Rafa got rid of the previous 2. Kuyt has hit bad form, and I honestly think Voronin is better than what we've seen from him recently.

 

Why do you need to be intelligent? There is a ball kick it in the goal. Its not a hard game.

[kop]

I am shocked that people still want to give him a chance, on what grounds? As I have been saying for months, Tom Hicks is the best thing that happened to Rafa in a perverse way.

 

I'm soooo curious to what your verdict on Rafa will be when you keep your word and make the final judgement on him at the end of the season.

 

Your word mate, what is it worth?

[theRedHorse]

Why do you need to be intelligent? There is a ball kick it in the goal. Its not a hard game.

 

You do have to be intelligent. You have to know when to make a run, when not to. When to play the pass when to shoot. When to slow the game down, when to up the tempo. Some players have it naturally, instinctively but others need a manager like benitez to Manage them.

 

When they have no intelligence, and they can't understand benitez- they just want to go out their and "kick it in the goal".

 

Thats not acceptable to manager like Benitez and I'm quite sure its in Ballague's book regarding why Baros was sold.

[WaltonRed]

You do have to be intelligent. You have to know when to make a run, when not to. When to play the pass when to shoot. When to slow the game down, when to up the tempo. Some players have it naturally, instinctively but others need a manager like benitez to Manage them.

 

When they have no intelligence, and they can't understand benitez- they just want to go out their and "kick it in the goal".

 

Thats not acceptable to manager like Benitez and I'm quite sure its in Ballague's book regarding why Baros was sold.

 

I know but you can over complicate it. I obviously know its much more than 'kick it in the goal' but at times you have to keep it simple, you baffle players otherwise.

[theRedHorse]

I know but you can over complicate it. I obviously know its much more than 'kick it in the goal' but at times you have to keep it simple, you baffle players otherwise.

 

Maybe. But Rafa is Rafa.