Ruben Amorim

[RobbieOR]

1 hour ago, dave u said:

 

Doesn't have to be like that, but at the same time when you've built a squad to play a certain way and signed/brought through players to play specific positions, it's a bit stupid bringing someone in who will immediately want players of a different profile for specific positions. 

 

You do that, and the guy you bring in is shit, it's a slippery slope. A big part of why Everton and United are so shite is they have squads filled with players signed by different managers for different styles who were quickly sacked for being shit.

 

As a hypothetical, I'm not down with this fella (or whoever) coming in and saying "I don't want Robertson and Kostas, sign me Ait Nouri (just as an example), and there's no room in my midfield for Trent or Szoboslai as they don't fit the profile of player I like for my system". We let him do what he wants, he turns out to be a bum and next summer we're replacing him with someone else and the cycle then continues.

 

Fuck that. We're onto a great thing here, I want someone to come in and keep that going and build on Klopp's legacy, not destroy it.

 

 

I think it's a bit idealistic to think that any manager is going to come in and think all the players are great. That's not how it works at all, Klopp clearly loves the bones of all of them but even if it was going to be Alonso, he was going to bin off a few players. You can't really expect any manager to work with another man's team. It doesn't work like that, any manager will tell you that. 

[Barrington Womble]

4 hours ago, dave u said:

Would rather we didn't bring in someone who is basically going to rip up what we have in terms of system, formation, style, personnel so he can do things his way. I want someone as close to Klopp's set up as possible to just carry on what we're doing and make the transition smooth.

 

Don't want some cunt coming in and saying he doesn't fancy Robbo or Trent or Szoboslai because he can't shoehorn them into his fucking rigid three at the back set up.

 

So if it's this fella, I hope he's flexible and open minded.

 

I don't think the formation matters at all. We've played large parts of this season with effectively 343 with the ball and as we have the ball 70% of the time, we're as good as 343 anyway. They're just numbers to me. Players are flexible these days. 

 

The important thing from my perspective is to be able to have a style of play that enables us to get the most out of the players we have. We've a lot of players who are at their best when we play with a high intensity. So we just need a coach who can embrace that. I don't know enough about any of the candidates really to know who's the best fit to follow klopp, but everything about the way we use data will be used to identify that. 

 

I also think that emotional way of playing football, really suits us as a fan base. It's become enjoyable watching the reds again, something I don't think we had for a long time. I know winning is a part of that, but the style is too. We had plenty of wins and good nights under houllier and benitez, but all the best times were the rare occasions they tried to harness the crowd to bring emotion to the game, when mostly they played sterile, controlling football. 

 

For me, I want a coach who can embrace heavy metal football. The rest of them can fuck off. 

[aws]

Time to have another look at Pep maybe?  The least disruption of all the choices. 

[chrisbonnie]

I just watched a video analysis by the redmen on YouTube.

 

His teams certainly seem very well organised and coached... 

 

If he's the man the club want, then so be it

[Barrington Womble]

Just now, aws said:

Time to have another look at Pep maybe?  The least disruption of all the choices. 

 

I don't reckon the club have ever ruled him out. In fact I would feel sure they have a list and if they go far enough down it, it'll hit him. So the question is how far down is he. I reckon he's definitely behind candidates who've won a league. 

[aws]

3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

I don't reckon the club have ever ruled him out. In fact I would feel sure they have a list and if they go far enough down it, it'll hit him. So the question is how far down is he. I reckon he's definitely behind candidates who've won a league. 

That sounds about right. But if we don’t fancy Amorim or he chooses Barca then Pep must be right in the discussion.  What he’s achieved with Klopp must equate to one title with Bayern.  

[3 Stacks]

25 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

I don't think the formation matters at all. We've played large parts of this season with effectively 343 with the ball and as we have the ball 70% of the time, we're as good as 343 anyway. They're just numbers to me. Players are flexible these days. 

 

The important thing from my perspective is to be able to have a style of play that enables us to get the most out of the players we have. We've a lot of players who are at their best when we play with a high intensity. So we just need a coach who can embrace that. I don't know enough about any of the candidates really to know who's the best fit to follow klopp, but everything about the way we use data will be used to identify that. 

 

I also think that emotional way of playing football, really suits us as a fan base. It's become enjoyable watching the reds again, something I don't think we had for a long time. I know winning is a part of that, but the style is too. We had plenty of wins and good nights under houllier and benitez, but all the best times were the rare occasions they tried to harness the crowd to bring emotion to the game, when mostly they played sterile, controlling football. 

 

For me, I want a coach who can embrace heavy metal football. The rest of them can fuck off. 

That's a fair opinion, and I think everyone has the City-Arsenal game top of mind in terms of not wanting to have a sterile, positionally strict setup, but we also have to realize that the way we play currently is pretty special.

 

Under a worse manager, who can't setup the team as well or that can't motivate players as well, playing a similar way might lead to monster gaps and stuff that looks really ridiculous tactically.

[Barrington Womble]

2 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

That's a fair opinion, and I think everyone has the City-Arsenal game top of mind in terms of not wanting to have a sterile, positionally strict setup, but we also have to realize that the way we play currently is pretty special.

 

Under a worse manager, who can't setup the team as well or that can't motivate players as well, playing a similar way might lead to monster gaps and stuff that looks really ridiculous tactically.

So the pricks with spreadsheets need to get it right then! 

[Lee909]

35 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

I don't reckon the club have ever ruled him out. In fact I would feel sure they have a list and if they go far enough down it, it'll hit him. So the question is how far down is he. I reckon he's definitely behind candidates who've won a league. 

 

I thought from the beginning it was more Pep not fancying the job that us ruling him out at the start. 

I think he knows in the public and probably football worlds eyes anything he does will be put on Klopp and any failures on him. If he wins its Klopp tactics, Klopps players if he loses he fucked up one of the best and easy jobs about. 

 

He wouldn't have the same presence as Klopp on the touchline or with players from what you see of him but he knows the players and system. 

 

I'd just be concerned about him bringing in a load of shite Dutch players if Hughes and Edwards don't run the transfers.

 

 

I would have him over many of the front runners on the bookies lists though

Its not a great list and i personally would go with Naglesmann over all of them. Postecoglou is interesting but i can't see him leaving Spurs so quickly

 

I think de Zerbi would be interesting but im far from convinced and people saying he's been rules out

 

The Athletic did a podcast this week and they are saying by the data Thiago Motta, Simeone Inzaghi(Staying at Inter/Not good english) Paulo Fonseca. The highest ranking on the data on style similar to Klopp style/tactics is Sebastian Hoeneß (Stuttgardt) Marco Rose(Leipzig),Edin Turzic(Dortmund) all scored highest

 

Rúben Amorim

Roberto De Zerbi

Julian Nagelsmann 

Ange Postecoglou

Fernando Torres

Thomas Tuchel

Gary O'Neil

Graham Potter

Marco Rose

Roger Schmidt

Unai Emery

Xavi Hernandez

Andoni Iraola

Diego Simeone

Enzo Maresca

Julen Lopetegui

Luis Enrique

Simone Inzaghi

Thomas Frank 

[Smell The Glove]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

I don't think the formation matters at all. We've played large parts of this season with effectively 343 with the ball and as we have the ball 70% of the time, we're as good as 343 anyway. They're just numbers to me. Players are flexible these days. 

 

The important thing from my perspective is to be able to have a style of play that enables us to get the most out of the players we have. We've a lot of players who are at their best when we play with a high intensity. So we just need a coach who can embrace that. I don't know enough about any of the candidates really to know who's the best fit to follow klopp, but everything about the way we use data will be used to identify that. 

 

I also think that emotional way of playing football, really suits us as a fan base. It's become enjoyable watching the reds again, something I don't think we had for a long time. I know winning is a part of that, but the style is too. We had plenty of wins and good nights under houllier and benitez, but all the best times were the rare occasions they tried to harness the crowd to bring emotion to the game, when mostly they played sterile, controlling football. 

 

For me, I want a coach who can embrace heavy metal football. The rest of them can fuck off. 

Formations matter or what is the point in training. Repetitive patterns. Crazy to think that you don't have a stock way of playing that can be adapted in game. What is without question is we are an emotional crowd which works best when we are front foot aggressive. Klopp was made for us in that way and he will know what works best. I would be amazed if he's not part of the process to carry on what he's put in place. We can't have a manager that's not going to be in that mould. We are not an Arteta, Guardiola set up. De Zerbi is quite aggressive, Nagelsmann is aggressive. Both can play a Klopp type system. I have no idea who comes in, it changes by the hour but what I definitely would want is someone to continue Klopps work.

[gkmacca]

1 hour ago, chrisbonnie said:

I just watched a video analysis by the redmen on YouTube.

 

His teams certainly seem very well organised and coached... 

 

If he's the man the club want, then so be it

 

Yes, that was quite interesting. Apparently his keeper is about 36 and stays stuck on his line at all times, so hopefully with Alisson in goal he'll be a bit more ambitious.

[Barrington Womble]

22 minutes ago, Lee909 said:

 

I thought from the beginning it was more Pep not fancying the job that us ruling him out at the start. 

I think he knows in the public and probably football worlds eyes anything he does will be put on Klopp and any failures on him. If he wins its Klopp tactics, Klopps players if he loses he fucked up one of the best and easy jobs about. 

 

He wouldn't have the same presence as Klopp on the touchline or with players from what you see of him but he knows the players and system. 

 

I'd just be concerned about him bringing in a load of shite Dutch players if Hughes and Edwards don't run the transfers.

 

 

I would have him over many of the front runners on the bookies lists though

Its not a great list and i personally would go with Naglesmann over all of them. Postecoglou is interesting but i can't see him leaving Spurs so quickly

 

I think de Zerbi would be interesting but im far from convinced and people saying he's been rules out

 

The Athletic did a podcast this week and they are saying by the data Thiago Motta, Simeone Inzaghi(Staying at Inter/Not good english) Paulo Fonseca. The highest ranking on the data on style similar to Klopp style/tactics is Sebastian Hoeneß (Stuttgardt) Marco Rose(Leipzig),Edin Turzic(Dortmund) all scored highest

 

Rúben Amorim

Roberto De Zerbi

Julian Nagelsmann 

Ange Postecoglou

Fernando Torres

Thomas Tuchel

Gary O'Neil

Graham Potter

Marco Rose

Roger Schmidt

Unai Emery

Xavi Hernandez

Andoni Iraola

Diego Simeone

Enzo Maresca

Julen Lopetegui

Luis Enrique

Simone Inzaghi

Thomas Frank 

 

I don't know how the athletic can say the data says anyone, because surely they don't know either what data we are looking at or how it is interpreted? The data itself is not the value. It only develops value in how you use it and if chaps at the athletic were any good at it, I might suggest they could get a better job inside football proving it, than outside doing opinion pieces and podcasts etc. Perhaps i take a different point of view to most on here as I spend my life designing IT infrastructure for quantative traders. I also know what all the data is. I could probably throw a few sound bites about which stocks to buy. I 100% do not have either the skills or understanding of the data my customers use to be a trader though. 

 

Anyway, that's a bit off topic! Back to your point about ljinders. I don't think he would be able to just buy all the players he felt like, but of course he absolutely should have final day. I don't think we will work much differently to how it's worked since klopp joined. 

 

I do think anyone who's managed in this league might be seen as somewhat less of a risk, so the likes of postegoclu and iraola might have a shout, but they maybe haven't done it on the biggest stage of at all. 

 

To be honest, I just don't know enough about all of it to feel passionately about any of them. The more unread and hear about some, the more I think they might be a fit. Nagelsmann so far has me feeling most comfortable. And from the outset, I kind of felt he was more the profile FSG would want than Alonso. So for now I'm mostly hoping if it is him, he's not the absolute fucking bellend some say he is. 

 

4 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

Formations matter or what is the point in training. Repetitive patterns. Crazy to think that you don't have a stock way of playing that can be adapted in game. What is without question is we are an emotional crowd which works best when we are front foot aggressive. Klopp was made for us in that way and he will know what works best. I would be amazed if he's not part of the process to carry on what he's put in place. We can't have a manager that's not going to be in that mould. We are not an Arteta, Guardiola set up. De Zerbi is quite aggressive, Nagelsmann is aggressive. Both can play a Klopp type system. I have no idea who comes in, it changes by the hour but what I definitely would want is someone to continue Klopps work.

We play different formations all the time. Sometimes it might stay roughly within somewhere type of 433 formation, but this isn't table football. Players move. They find spaces and work from them. Or they take up different positions to deny others space. Formations for me in the modern game are really no more than starting positions. We played about 4 different formations on Sunday alone. We went through 433 (with the midfield 1 and 2), 343, 442 and a 433 (with midfield 2 and 1).

 

There was a video posted on here about naglesmann and he used countless formations in just a couple of opening games of the season and different formations with and without the ball. I just think that's the modern game. Brighton genuinely had no real formation on Sunday. 

[Code]

1 hour ago, aws said:

That sounds about right. But if we don’t fancy Amorim or he chooses Barca then Pep must be right in the discussion.  What he’s achieved with Klopp must equate to one title with Bayern.  

 

Nagelsmann also took Hoffenheim to 4th and 3rd in Bundesliga and the CL and reached the semi finals with RB Leipzig where he finished 2nd and 3rd. 
 

Lijnders took charge of NEC in January 2018, they were 2nd when he took over, in his time there they would have been 5th, but they finished 3rd overall and failed to win playoff to the Eresdivision so he was sacked in May the same year. 

 

 

[Smell The Glove]

3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

I don't know how the athletic can say the data says anyone, because surely they don't know either what data we are looking at or how it is interpreted? The data itself is not the value. It only develops value in how you use it and if chaps at the athletic were any good at it, I might suggest they could get a better job inside football proving it, than outside doing opinion pieces and podcasts etc. Perhaps i take a different point of view to most on here as I spend my life designing IT infrastructure for quantative traders. I also know what all the data is. I could probably throw a few sound bites about which stocks to buy. I 100% do not have either the skills or understanding of the data my customers use to be a trader though. 

 

Anyway, that's a bit off topic! Back to your point about ljinders. I don't think he would be able to just buy all the players he felt like, but of course he absolutely should have final day. I don't think we will work much differently to how it's worked since klopp joined. 

 

I do think anyone who's managed in this league might be seen as somewhat less of a risk, so the likes of postegoclu and iraola might have a shout, but they maybe haven't done it on the biggest stage of at all. 

 

To be honest, I just don't know enough about all of it to feel passionately about any of them. The more unread and hear about some, the more I think they might be a fit. Nagelsmann so far has me feeling most comfortable. And from the outset, I kind of felt he was more the profile FSG would want than Alonso. So for now I'm mostly hoping if it is him, he's not the absolute fucking bellend some say he is. 

 

We play different formations all the time. Sometimes it might stay roughly within somewhere type of 433 formation, but this isn't table football. Players move. They find spaces and work from them. Or they take up different positions to deny others space. Formations for me in the modern game are really no more than starting positions. We played about 4 different formations on Sunday alone. We went through 433 (with the midfield 1 and 2), 343, 442 and a 433 (with midfield 2 and 1).

 

There was a video posted on here about naglesmann and he used countless formations in just a couple of opening games of the season and different formations with and without the ball. I just think that's the modern game. Brighton genuinely had no real formation on Sunday. 

I really couldn't disagree more on formations. People just don't move wherever, there has to be structure. Just because somebody moves doesn't mean somebody moves to cover. That is a formation and that is training. This isn't 5 a side with mates.

[Barrington Womble]

2 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

I really couldn't disagree more on formations. People just don't move wherever, there has to be structure. Just because somebody moves doesn't mean somebody moves to cover. That is a formation and that is training. This isn't 5 a side with mates.

 

You're watching different football to me then. Most good sides use formations as no more than starting positions. Only fellas like Dyche and Moyes are frozen in time with players just playing in their little box. 

[TD_LFC]

10 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

I really couldn't disagree more on formations. People just don't move wherever, there has to be structure. Just because somebody moves doesn't mean somebody moves to cover. That is a formation and that is training. This isn't 5 a side with mates.

 

What matters, and what is trained, is how a team transitions from a defensive set up to an attacking setup. We might line up as a 4-3-3 but the majority of our time is spent in a 3-2-2-3 (and prior to inverting a fullback a 2-3-5 with the fullbacks holding the width, and 3 attackers linking up).

 

Sporting's base attacking setup is 3-2-5 with wingbacks holding the width and 3 attackers linking up so the only difference is flipping a midfielder for a defender, in an attacking sense, and how you transition from attack back to defence.

 

As for players just moving wherever (or the appearance of) you'll see it happening more and more with some managers moving away from positional play and occupying spaces to relationism where players move in a less conventional way and aren't restricted to positions (see Motta at Bologna or Diniz at Fluminese).

 

 

[Megadrive Man]

3 hours ago, dave u said:

 

Doesn't have to be like that, but at the same time when you've built a squad to play a certain way and signed/brought through players to play specific positions, it's a bit stupid bringing someone in who will immediately want players of a different profile for specific positions. 

 

You do that, and the guy you bring in is shit, it's a slippery slope. A big part of why Everton and United are so shite is they have squads filled with players signed by different managers for different styles who were quickly sacked for being shit.

 

As a hypothetical, I'm not down with this fella (or whoever) coming in and saying "I don't want Robertson and Kostas, sign me Ait Nouri (just as an example), and there's no room in my midfield for Trent or Szoboslai as they don't fit the profile of player I like for my system". We let him do what he wants, he turns out to be a bum and next summer we're replacing him with someone else and the cycle then continues.

 

Fuck that. We're onto a great thing here, I want someone to come in and keep that going and build on Klopp's legacy, not destroy it.

 

 

Completely agree with you on the point about Everton and United. Its part of the reason we were shit too under previous managers.

 

Whoever we bring in is going to have to accept being part of a transfer committee though, and using the example of Ait Nouri replacing Robertson, that probably would have happened anyway even if Klopp had stayed. I'm not sure Robertson will have much longer here because of his high energy style declining in his 30's.

 

Overall the squad is in really good shape though and there's only really three or four players that need replacing in the next few years.

[Smell The Glove]

7 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

You're watching different football to me then. Most good sides use formations as no more than starting positions. Only fellas like Dyche and Moyes are frozen in time with players just playing in their little box. 

So who changes position for Liverpool now Trent is injured? 

[TD_LFC]

2 minutes ago, Megadrive Man said:

Whoever we bring in is going to have to accept being part of a transfer committee though

 

It's standard for much of the world.

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, Smell The Glove said:

So who changes position for Liverpool now Trent is injured? 

 

Gomez.

[Smell The Glove]

Just now, Smell The Glove said:

So who changes position for Liverpool now Trent is injured? 

 

Just now, Smell The Glove said:

So who changes position for Liverpool now Trent is injured? 

We all know the move inside but that is structured. The forwards stay the same. The midfielders stay the same. The most we would do is move a striker left or bring a striker deep.

[Barrington Womble]

4 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

So who changes position for Liverpool now Trent is injured? 

So if you're just talking about the hybrid role, of which there's way more to it than that imo, then this weekend it was Gomez. He played left back and for the majority of the game came inside to support the midfield. He's done that quite a lot since being at left back, it's just not as noticeable because he's not as good at passing, so less goes through him and he doesn't come and demand the ball like Trent does. 

 

Broader, if you take Sunday as an example, Gomez played part of the game as a regular full back, some other inverting. Elliot came off the bench to replace Nunez, yet while Salah went through the middle, Elliot took Salah's position, but mostly played as a conventional right mid from a 442. Gakpo played narrower than Diaz before him. Mac Allister started the game advance left sided midfield, but played deeper and moved to the right. Dom move from the right to play off the left as a starting place, yet he was more advanced than macca, so in effect at times (in fact over half the game) we had a diamond midfield when we had the ball of endo deep, Gomez left, Macca right and Dom advanced pretty much going where he wants from a starting position on the left. We finished with the 442, with Gomez back as a traditional full back, grav ahead of him, Elliot ahead of Bradley and endo and macca as a pair. That was just sunday. 

[Smell The Glove]

20 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

So if you're just talking about the hybrid role, of which there's way more to it than that imo, then this weekend it was Gomez. He played left back and for the majority of the game came inside to support the midfield. He's done that quite a lot since being at left back, it's just not as noticeable because he's not as good at passing, so less goes through him and he doesn't come and demand the ball like Trent does. 

 

Broader, if you take Sunday as an example, Gomez played part of the game as a regular full back, some other inverting. Elliot came off the bench to replace Nunez, yet while Salah went through the middle, Elliot took Salah's position, but mostly played as a conventional right mid from a 442. Gakpo played narrower than Diaz before him. Mac Allister started the game advance left sided midfield, but played deeper and moved to the right. Dom move from the right to play off the left as a starting place, yet he was more advanced than macca, so in effect at times (in fact over half the game) we had a diamond midfield when we had the ball of endo deep, Gomez left, Macca right and Dom advanced pretty much going where he wants from a starting position on the left. We finished with the 442, with Gomez back as a traditional full back, grav ahead of him, Elliot ahead of Bradley and endo and macca as a pair. That was just sunday. 

I'm not sure where to start with that apart from we have big discrepancies on what is formation changes.

[Barrington Womble]

5 minutes ago, Smell The Glove said:

I'm not sure where to start with that apart from we have big discrepancies on what is formation changes.

 

Well I don't think they really matter. They're just a way of drawing into make it easy to see who's playing. Most good, modern sides are flexible and spend most of the game changing where they are. which is why it won't matter for the new manager, because the players will work it out if the coach is good enough to get his ideas across. 

[Lee909]

Watch Sportings last 2 games and really not been impresses. It's 2-2, here tonight away at Benfica but though the stats has it 16-12 on Sports to Benfica and Sporting with more possession they are lucky not to be 3 behind. Poor last weekend against a midtable side aswell. 

 

Amorim record isn't anything special in the big games either. 

 

9 wins in 25 vs Benfica and Porto

 

 

They've not been terrible here and it's a obviously tough game away at Benfica but they're getting caught on the counter and often overrun in midfield. 85 mins in and he's not been able to change it

 

Should be 3-2 Benfica, another sitter