Would you want Liverpool awardees those 3 League Titles Man City “won”?

[Creator Supreme]

2 hours ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Everton down

We'll be down before those cunts are!

[VladimirIlyich]

8 hours ago, RedHeadedRed said:

100 percent yes, they are the worst thing that has ever happened to the game of football. 

No. That title belongs to the formation of this Premier League bollocks itself and the cosy relationships between clubs and media companies it brought.

[Bjornebye]

No I wouldn’t. I do think they should be stripped of them though. Which probably won’t happen. 

[gkmacca]

This kind of decision doesn't rest on how any possible recipients might feel about it; it rests on what punishment is deserved. 

 

There are some precedents, such as in athletics, when drug cheats lost their medals and they were given to the ones behind them. Those decisions didn't hinge on how keen those other athletes were on being retrospectively upgraded. If you're entitled to justice, you should get it, whether it makes you feel great or utterly empty.

 

If City are shown to have cheated their way to titles, they should lose them, and the titles, and the difference in prize money, should go to the runner-ups. I read Henry Winter today, arguing that shouldn't happen in, say, Liverpool's case because it wasn't down to City that Gerrard slipped over and we drew at Palace.

 

That just shows what a wooly thinker he is. If City hadn't cheated, we would have won even though Gerrard slipped and Palace equalised. It would be weird to think otherwise, just as it would be weird not to give a medal to a runner up because they didn't run faster than the drug cheat - of course they didn't, because they were chasing a cheat! 

 

So I do think one of several actions against City, if shown to have broken the rules, should be retrospective punishments. People might say, 'That won't help,' but again, punishments aren't about 'helping'. They're punishments.

 

And why are retrospective punishments 'less fair' than contemporary actions such as fines, point reductions and/or relegation? What have the current squad done to deserve any of that? There will always be some who'll suffer without deserving it in a case like this involving a big organisation like this. But the punishment still has to fit the crime.

 

As for us, I couldn't care less whether many of us want it or not, or enjoy it or not. Personally, I wouldn't feel anything, but that's another matter. It's just something that may need to happen, and if it does how we feel about it is an irrelevance.

[DaveT]

3 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

This kind of decision doesn't rest on how any possible recipients might feel about it; it rests on what punishment is deserved. 

 

There are some precedents, such as in athletics, when drug cheats lost their medals and they were given to the ones behind them. Those decisions didn't hinge on how keen those other athletes were on being retrospectively upgraded. If you're entitled to justice, you should get it, whether it makes you feel great or utterly empty.

 

If City are shown to have cheated their way to titles, they should lose them, and the titles, and the difference in prize money, should go to the runner-ups. I read Henry Winter today, arguing that shouldn't happen in, say, Liverpool's case because it wasn't down to City that Gerrard slipped over and we drew at Palace.

 

That just shows what a wooly thinker he is. If City hadn't cheated, we would have won even though Gerrard slipped and Palace equalised. It would be weird to think otherwise, just as it would be weird not to give a medal to a runner up because they didn't run faster than the drug cheat - of course they didn't, because they were chasing a cheat! 

 

So I do think one of several actions against City, if shown to have broken the rules, should be retrospective punishments. People might say, 'That won't help,' but again, punishments aren't about 'helping'. They're punishments.

 

And why are retrospective punishments 'less fair' that contemporary actions such as fines, point reductions and/or relegation? What have the current squad done to deserve any of that? There will always be some who'll suffer without deserving it in a case like this involving a big organisation like this. But the punishment still has to fit the crime.

 

As for us, I couldn't care l;ess whether many of us want it or not, or enjoy it or not. I wouldn't feel anything, but that's another matter. It's just something that may need to happen, and if it does how we feel about it is an irrelevance.

Breathtakingly stupid logic fromWinter. It’s going to be interesting watching how the many City sycophants in the media react as this thing unfolds, especially if it increasingly looks as if it will go against the cheats 

[chrisbonnie]

Without wanting to read through 300 pages of fa guff. 

 

Exactly what are City getting charged for. Ficticous sponsorship etc.....? 

 

I've always had the opinion that ffp is a bit.... I don't know. Elitist.... Say for instance I somehow came into 20 billion. Who's to say I shouldn't be able to spend my money, however I see fit. 

 

I know that's an unpopular opinion. But that's how I feel about it. I've always thought the ffp thing was there to keep the bigger clubs big and the smaller clubs down 

[Anubis]

10 hours ago, dave u said:

Also, we'd only get one title as the investigation only goes up to 2018.

They’re apparently opening up an investigation post 18.

[Poor Scouser T]

9 minutes ago, chrisbonnie said:

Without wanting to read through 300 pages of fa guff. 

 

Exactly what are City getting charged for. Ficticous sponsorship etc.....? 

 

I've always had the opinion that ffp is a bit.... I don't know. Elitist.... Say for instance I somehow came into 20 billion. Who's to say I shouldn't be able to spend my money, however I see fit. 

 

I know that's an unpopular opinion. But that's how I feel about it. I've always thought the ffp thing was there to keep the bigger clubs big and the smaller clubs down 

Falsifying accounts to gain an advantage essentially. Under reporting outgoings, over reporting in comings.

[gkmacca]

36 minutes ago, DaveT said:

Breathtakingly stupid logic fromWinter. It’s going to be interesting watching how the many City sycophants in the media react as this thing unfolds, especially if it increasingly looks as if it will go against the cheats 

Yes. I guess they all exhausted their wells of self-righteous indignation over the Super League controversy. It'll take them decades to recharge their morality batteries.

 

Do Winter and his mates think there shouldn't be any actions against the police over Hillsborough because it was a long time ago and it won't help anyone that much? That kind of reasoning would lead to so many scoundrels being released from prison, and escaping being sent there, it would resemble the rats racing back into Hamelin. 

 

I see the Echo's hacks, led by Mr Stoical himself Ian Doyle, have chosen to play the Fatalist card, basically saying 'It'll all take years to sort out anyway so why bother?' That's another great advert for crooks - just threaten to delay any proceedings and we'll leave you to it. Well done, lads, trebles all round!

[gkmacca]

21 minutes ago, chrisbonnie said:

Say for instance I somehow came into 20 billion. Who's to say I shouldn't be able to spend my money, however I see fit. 

 

 

I think the issue is: they're competing in what is still meant to be a sport (stop sniggering at the back!). If you're just, say, Amazon, and you just fancy doing what you like with your wealth, and, unlike them, you only bend the law a bit, that's one thing.

 

But if, say, you move into a sport, and bid to win a competition, then you are supposed to abide by the rules of said competition. 

 

You know - if you don't fancy baking a pie for a dinner party, so you get an M&S one and pass it off as your own, that's up to you. But if you do the same for a pie making competition, you can't complain if you get your winning sash removed. 

[Harry Squatter]

They have also distorted the domestic cup competitions. They twatted Watford 6-0 in an FA Cup Final and drew level with us on 8 league cups before we won it again last year.

 

I used to laugh at fans who hated us winning things and supported City because they have no chance to win the FA Cup and the League Cup because they dominate the domestic cup competitions. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

If it means that gobshites from no-mark clubs shut the fuck up about Steven Gerrard, then I'm in.

[TD_LFC]

Yes but to not make a big deal out of it, a single statement about fairness and playing to the rules of the game then anytime anyone at the club is asked about it they should have a party line that eviscerates City without explicitly naming them.

[Pete]

If this does happen would we still be one behind the red Mancs? 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Just now, Pete said:

If this does happen would we still be one behind the red Mancs? 

Fuck 'em. We'll win it next season.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

What happened to the Tours de France that Lance Armstrong won?

[Ronnie Whelan]

1 hour ago, gkmacca said:

This kind of decision doesn't rest on how any possible recipients might feel about it; it rests on what punishment is deserved. 

 

There are some precedents, such as in athletics, when drug cheats lost their medals and they were given to the ones behind them. Those decisions didn't hinge on how keen those other athletes were on being retrospectively upgraded. If you're entitled to justice, you should get it, whether it makes you feel great or utterly empty.

 

If City are shown to have cheated their way to titles, they should lose them, and the titles, and the difference in prize money, should go to the runner-ups. I read Henry Winter today, arguing that shouldn't happen in, say, Liverpool's case because it wasn't down to City that Gerrard slipped over and we drew at Palace.

 

That just shows what a wooly thinker he is. If City hadn't cheated, we would have won even though Gerrard slipped and Palace equalised. It would be weird to think otherwise, just as it would be weird not to give a medal to a runner up because they didn't run faster than the drug cheat - of course they didn't, because they were chasing a cheat! 

 

So I do think one of several actions against City, if shown to have broken the rules, should be retrospective punishments. People might say, 'That won't help,' but again, punishments aren't about 'helping'. They're punishments.

 

And why are retrospective punishments 'less fair' than contemporary actions such as fines, point reductions and/or relegation? What have the current squad done to deserve any of that? There will always be some who'll suffer without deserving it in a case like this involving a big organisation like this. But the punishment still has to fit the crime.

 

As for us, I couldn't care less whether many of us want it or not, or enjoy it or not. Personally, I wouldn't feel anything, but that's another matter. It's just something that may need to happen, and if it does how we feel about it is an irrelevance.

Great post that. 

 

I always think of all of the great athletes who were cheated of medals. Some of them got justice. They might not have the satisfaction of standing on a podium (or at least with the gold), but they have satisfaction knowing they are the best and that is something. 

 

Personally, I won't be bouncing around the place if we get awarded titles, because the moment has gone. But it will be nice to know that Jurgen and a great team are awarded the honours they deserve, even if the laughable thought of Ole being a title winning manager slap bang in the middle of it sullies it a tiny bit. "You lost the league because of Jordan Pickford" will be the latest Blueshite ditty eh

 

 

[Ashberry]

No way would Brendan Rodgers turn down a medal and the honour of going into every presser referring to himself as a premier league winning manager. 

[manwiththestick]

6 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

What happened to the Tours de France that Lance Armstrong won?

He was stripped of all his titles (7 I think), I don't believe they were awarded to whoever came in second place.

[KMD7]

I don't see what the issue is here. If they've been proved to have cheated then whoever finished runner up to them should be awarded the title, be it us or United or whoever.  Same with anything else they've won. 

[Harry Squatter]

10 minutes ago, manwiththestick said:

He was stripped of all his titles (7 I think), I don't believe they were awarded to whoever came in second place.

And they removed his scene from Dodgebal where he calls Vince Vaughn a quitter.

[manwiththestick]

8 minutes ago, KMD7 said:

I don't see what the issue is here. If they've been proved to have cheated then whoever finished runner up to them should be awarded the title, be it us or United or whoever.  Same with anything else they've won. 

I suppose from a PL point of view it's a massive can of worms. If you award second place the title then what about 5th place who missed Champions League and the revenue or the team missing out on Europa by one place or the clubs that finished 18th and got relegated?

[gkmacca]

12 minutes ago, manwiththestick said:

He was stripped of all his titles (7 I think), I don't believe they were awarded to whoever came in second place.

 

I guess they thought it might set a precedent, which would surely be no bad thing. As Sir Humphrey, when warning about 'dangerous precedents,' was asked in Yes Minister: 'You mean that if we do the right thing this time, we might have to do the right thing again next time?'

 

If you strip someone of a title you can either leave those years with no winner, or you can reason that the first non-cheat merits the title. There are arguments for either, but I'd be inclined to favour the latter. I certainly don't think that pointing to what wasn't done in the past in another sport is a definitive argument, any more than not pursuing a Government policy because a previous Government failed to do so stands up, either.

[Ashberry]

21 minutes ago, manwiththestick said:

He was stripped of all his titles (7 I think), I don't believe they were awarded to whoever came in second place.

Would have been hard to give to the runner up as they were almost certainly also to be doping too.

[Tarwater]

So... this could be our best season ever? Didn't see that coming a couple of days ago...