Homelessness

[Poor Scouser T]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's just that my nephew got out of prison last year and was given fuck all assistance with anything.

Surprised by that mate. Was he open to help? Nice is the wrong word but was he open to it?

[Poor Scouser T]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's just that my nephew got out of prison last year and was given fuck all assistance with anything.

The one thing that did surprise me is that the system is not one system. Each place has its own way of doing things. Not just little things but they operate as totally independent entities. The security in one place was suffocating while in the next non existent.  Food great and then disgusting. Maybe he just drew unlucky. If it was Aintree have heard that is a shithole.

[Gnasher]

25 minutes ago, A Red said:

I think the resources could be found. It costs £520 a week to house some of the homeless in hotels/caravan park round here, plus their benefits. Not sure how much but it costs quite a lot to imprison people. Then there is the unseen savings in reduction of crime, NHS etc. Obviously there is the money governments squander.

 

The emphasis must be on making the mentally ill and addicts able to function in society. They cant do it on their own, it must be compulsory.

 

I've just started to watch a documentary called the Gypsy Billionaire, I'm only a bit of a way through it but he talks about solving the lack of affordable homes with Caravan/static home parks.  It will be interesting to see how that works, its always been something I wondered about.

 

 

 

These are what they've put next to the Salvation Army hostel. About half a mile from Cardiff City centre. 

 

https://www.cadwyn.co.uk/shipping-container-project/#:~:text=The 13 new homes will,Welsh Government's Innovative Housing Programme.

 

 

[Fugitive]

17 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

One thing to be be taken on board is that don't think prison is  something that doesn't concern you. I had never been in trouble ever in my life. Cops are OK no problem. Get pissed big Burt Reynolds carry on and I'm in jail. Beware.

For someone who has been stabbed multiple times and ran over, that’s a big lie.

 

You big lying racist scumbag.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Surprised by that mate. Was he open to help? Nice is the wrong word but was he open to it?

Very open to it. We put him up temporarily, while he was trying to find a place, but he got no assistance because, as far as they were concerned, he wasn't destitute.  In the end we had to (half-truthfully) give him a written deadline to get out of our house.  We thought that would get them to up their game, but they told him there was a wait and he'd have to sleep in his car in the meantime.

[Section_31]

10 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

 

These are what they've put next to the Salvation Army hostel. About half a mile from Cardiff City centre. 

 

https://www.cadwyn.co.uk/shipping-container-project/#:~:text=The 13 new homes will,Welsh Government's Innovative Housing Programme.

 

 

 

"High quality"?!?

[Poor Scouser T]

7 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Very open to it. We put him up temporarily, while he was trying to find a place, but he got no assistance because, as far as they were concerned, he wasn't destitute.  In the end we had to (half-truthfully) give him a written deadline to get out of our house.  We thought that would get them to up their game, but they told him there was a wait and he'd have to sleep in his car in the meantime.

Maybe a resource thing. I was in Scotland so maybe its different.

[A Red]

Another thing that contributes, but maybe not as much as addiction etc is domestic abuse. There are plenty of families in temporary housing - hostels, hotels, caravan parks as a result of abusive partners. 

[Clem H Fandango]

38 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

One thing to be be taken on board is that don't think prison is  something that doesn't concern you. I had never been in trouble ever in my life. Cops are OK no problem. Get pissed big Burt Reynolds carry on and I'm in jail. Beware.

[Poor Scouser T]

4 minutes ago, Clem H Fandango said:

Have something to say mate say it, not sure what that means.

[Gnasher]

37 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

"High quality"?!?

 

Well yeah but you want see the state of some of the houses around there. Yeah i suppose the council argument would be it's that or the streets. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

Liverpool has a good few places for homeless to stay but the rule is no ale or drugs and if you get caught you’re out. I know if I lived on the street I’d want to be out my mind constantly so it’s a vicious circle. 

That's why Housing First is so effective (and more cost-effective).

 

Support workers have no more than 6 service users at a time, so they can personalise the service provided to whatever is needed to keep the person in accommodation.  The caseworker helps them with any agencies they need to get in touch with for health, dependency, benefits, legal services, etc.  If they relapse or fuck up in any way, the caseworker smooths things over, to ensure they can stay in their home.  It's a lot less of a judgemental approach and it requires the service user to take a lot of responsibility for themselves; the service users have a lot of input into designing the service provided.

 

It's resource-intensive, but because it keeps people in homes (and out of prison or A&E) it saves taxpayers about £35,000 per service user, on average.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, A Red said:

I think the resources could be found. It costs £520 a week to house some of the homeless in hotels/caravan park round here, plus their benefits. Not sure how much but it costs quite a lot to imprison people. Then there is the unseen savings in reduction of crime, NHS etc. Obviously there is the money governments squander.

 

The emphasis must be on making the mentally ill and addicts able to function in society. They cant do it on their own, it must be compulsory.

 

I've just started to watch a documentary called the Gypsy Billionaire, I'm only a bit of a way through it but he talks about solving the lack of affordable homes with Caravan/static home parks.  It will be interesting to see how that works, its always been something I wondered about.

 

Nah.

 

People kick back against being forced to do stuff (because they're human).

 

Also, trailer parks are not a solution to the housing crisis. Fuck that shit.

[Poor Scouser T]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That's why Housing First is so effective (and more cost-effective).

 

Support workers have no more than 6 service users at a time, so they can personalise the service provided to whatever is needed to keep the person in accommodation.  The caseworker helps them with any agencies they need to get in touch with for health, dependency, benefits, legal services, etc.  If they relapse or fuck up in any way, the caseworker smooths things over, to ensure they can stay in their home.  It's a lot less of a judgemental approach and it requires the service user to take a lot of responsibility for themselves; the service users have a lot of input into designing the service provided.

 

It's resource-intensive, but because it keeps people in homes (and out of prison or A&E) it saves taxpayers about £35,000 per service user, on average.

Homelessness is simply a symptom. The real problem is addiction. Whatever it is booze vallies smack etc. Until you hit that you are wasting your time. Give addicts the stuff they use in a controlled environment with access to health care. take it from there.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

38 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Maybe a resource thing. I was in Scotland so maybe its different.

You were somewhere the Tories weren't in charge, so... Yeah, it's different.

[Arniepie]

3 hours ago, A Red said:

Ok, lets see how this goes down.

 

As a society we treat people that sleep rough or forever in and out of homelessness due to addiction or mental health, as the same as people that function normally. In other words they get the same human rights. I would contend that they should be forced to go into mental health/addiction facilities and given full treatment and rehabilitation before going into halfway hostels before being let loose into society again. Whilst being mentored and supported.

 

We don't give such people the tools to be able to cope with life as best they can, they just live a life of misery ending up in premature death, disowned and unwanted.

If the Tories hadn't utterly decimated mental health funding,it would be a great idea

[Gnasher]

15 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You were somewhere the Tories weren't in charge, so... Yeah, it's different.

 

The supporting commission was abolished in around 2009/10. It was a system where the probation helped with funding and accommodation. No suprise the change didn't work for the better. Now it's down to local authorities who are already stretched to the limit. 

 

About 3/4 the way down in this article. 

 

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmiprobation/media/press-releases/2020/07/accommodationthematic/

 

Tommy's right it's differs in different parts of the country and but they sometimes put the prisoner in a catch 22 situation before release. For example they may put it that if they've  an address to live then it'll smooth the release. Most people are released on license so they only do half the sentence and that license has to be approved. Obviously most prisoners will be desperate to get out so scramble around for any address they can when throwing the ball back at the authorities may be the better options. In other words call their bluff,. Easy to say when your put here though  

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Homelessness is simply a symptom. The real problem is addiction. Whatever it is booze vallies smack etc. Until you hit that you are wasting your time. Give addicts the stuff they use in a controlled environment with access to health care. take it from there.

Not all addicts are homeless and addiction is not the only cause of homelessness.  If you're going through both at the same time, you're doubly fucked; each makes the other worse. That's why judgemental, conditional approaches to homelessness ("we'll give you a home as long as you're clean") have such a high failure rate.  A person in a secure home has a much better chance of dealing with their addiction and turning their life around than anyone out on the street (hence Housing First).

[Poor Scouser T]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Not all addicts are homeless and addiction is not the only cause of homelessness.  If you're going through both at the same time, you're doubly fucked; each makes the other worse. That's why judgemental, conditional approaches to homelessness ("we'll give you a home as long as you're clean") have such a high failure rate.  A person in a secure home has a much better chance of dealing with their addiction and turning their life around than anyone out on the street (hence Housing First).

Just speaking from my experience. Nick was more a mental institution than a prison. Almost everyone without fail was addicted to something or other and would risk anything to get it. Fundamentally most were decent people but so far into addiction that not much else mattered.

There were times when I got friendly with who I thought was a relatively ordinary bloke. had decent conversations about stuff only to find them later on bombed off their tits on whatever. It was depressing.

[TheSire]

3 hours ago, A Red said:

Ok, lets see how this goes down.

 

As a society we treat people that sleep rough or forever in and out of homelessness due to addiction or mental health, as the same as people that function normally. In other words they get the same human rights. I would contend that they should be forced to go into mental health/addiction facilities and given full treatment and rehabilitation before going into halfway hostels before being let loose into society again. Whilst being mentored and supported.

 

We don't give such people the tools to be able to cope with life as best they can, they just live a life of misery ending up in premature death, disowned and unwanted.

Yeah the big issue is that there is no support to help people. I'm thinking things like financial help/advice, drug services, mental health support etc.

 

It's usually unhealthy habits and behaviours that stop people from managing their day to day situation which inevitably lead to debt etc and eventually they run out of road and there's no safety net to stop its spiralling out of control.

 

I'd imagine lots of charities have closed as well as mental health services being stripped bare. It's gotten to the point where people are either pushed to the private sector for help or they just do without and their lives fall to shit.

[A Red]

23 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

If the Tories hadn't utterly decimated mental health funding,it would be a great idea

Thats my point, reverse it.

[TheSire]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Depending on the council and the time spent inside upon leaving prison you are given appropriately £88 and should then be able to claim one months universal credit. The prison governor can allow extra money for emergency short term accommodation. After going to probation and the council they are normally put in temporary accommodation or a hostel if they have nowhere suitable to stay. Many prison leavers are reluctant to stay in hostels as these places are often plagued by violence and drug abuse. Which is the lifestyle many have pledged to themselves to stay away from. 

 

Although if this goes through (it's apparently not an April fools joke) those being released will be straight back inside. 

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-told-abandon-heartless-32485855

 

Although as the prisons are full I've no idea where the little fella thinks they'll go. It'll also put an extra burden on our probation/police services. Another idiotic idea from an idiotic government. Every prison, police station, courthouse would need giant revolving doors installed to cope with the increased amount of comings and goings. 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/oct/12/england-and-wales-judges-told-not-to-jail-criminals-because-prisons-full-report

 

 

 

 

Scumbag freaks.

[Atticus Finch]

12 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Just speaking from my experience. Nick was more a mental institution than a prison. Almost everyone without fail was addicted to something or other and would risk anything to get it. Fundamentally most were decent people but so far into addiction that not much else mattered.

There were times when I got friendly with who I thought was a relatively ordinary bloke. had decent conversations about stuff only to find them later on bombed off their tits on whatever. It was depressing.

He wasn’t called Dennis Tooth was he?

[TheSire]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Another point is we successfully cleared the streets of homeless people during the pandemic. Probably because the government thought they'd be Covid spreaders if left to roam our high streets and hang around train and bus stations approaching people for spare change. 

 

 

Link on the problems finding the right accommodation when leaving prison. 

 

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmiprobation/media/press-releases/2020/07/accommodationthematic/

 

 

Dystopian. I remember noticing the same. Wouldn't be surprised if the tories went round killing all homeless people. Psychopaths. 

[A Red]

33 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Nah.

 

People kick back against being forced to do stuff (because they're human).

 

Also, trailer parks are not a solution to the housing crisis. Fuck that shit.

Well, the judgement of homeless addicts and mentally health people doesn't tend to do them any long term good.

 

There are plenty of people that choose to live on such parks year round, a good example would be the fitties at Cleethorpes. Clearly I'm not talking about shit caravans.