Firmino Racism Allegations

[aRdja]

It's the intricacies I don't get.

Mention someone's colour, not racist?

Mention someone's colour with an insult, racist?

Mention someone's colour with a compliment, racist?

Or are there no intricacies, and it's all racist?

 

It’s not really *that* intricate if I’m honest with you. Being racist is thinking one race is superior to another. It seems obvious to me at least that if you cursed someone whilst referring to their skin colour or ethnicity, you’d be seen as racist. I’m interested to know your take on the above scenarios though. Which of the those would you see as a racist behaviour?

[s(k)aturation]

This is to completely misunderstand power dynamics and human psychology. If someone holds power over you structurally and with extreme words, you work to reduce that power in any way possible. Reclaiming the extreme words for your own use helps reduce their psychological toll. Hence women calling themselves "b*tches" or "fat". In order to take a purely theoretical, logic-based approach to the situation as you are doing is to ignore human psychology because the topic is unemotional for you in a way it isn't for them.

 

 

As usual, only you understand and are sensitive to all things anthropological. 

The king of unsubstantiated, unilateral, psychological and humanitarian rabbit pellets... followed by the infantile neg.

[Jose Jones]

As usual, only you understand and are sensitive to all things anthropological.

The king of unsubstantiated, unilateral, psychological and humanitarian rabbit pellets... followed by the infantile neg.

I thought Hades post was pretty spot on.

[Hades]

I thought Hades post was pretty spot on.

Is it surprising? Solipsistic right-wingers have little to no understanding of human psychology or fairness as it doesn't benefit them.

[s(k)aturation]

Is it surprising? Solipsistic right-wingers have little to no understanding of human psychology or fairness as it doesn't benefit them.

 

 

You label whomever disagrees with you. 

 

Section is a fascist, Rico is a fascist etc.

 

You are not interested in and belittle opinions that don't mirror - or in fact even deviate marginally - from your own extremes.

 

And you get the same back from me and others.

[s(k)aturation]

I thought Hades post was pretty spot on.

 

Fair enough. 

[Pureblood]

I don't think any casual observer would take my posts as representative, seeing as we have all knowing, self righteous pricks like you patrolling things.

 

And I'm not saying I don't understand racism. In fact, I've already mentioned in reply to aRdja that term like nigger, gook, etc. are most obviously and inherently racist.

It's the intricacies I don't get.

Mention someone's colour, not racist?

Mention someone's colour with an insult, racist?

Mention someone's colour with a compliment, racist?

Or are there no intricacies, and it's all racist?

 

And for any casual observers that may be looking on, all my posts are mine and mine alone. They, in no way, represent all Liverpool fans.

 

Why are you preoccupied with "mentioning someone's colour", is that how you behave in the real world?  Do you think it's appropriate on a football pitch?

 

"Pass the ball, white man - I'm unmarked at the far post".  It just sounds fucking dumb.

[The Acolyte]

Judging by Question Time level of bickery on here theres been nothing from the FA?

[Jockey]

I don't think this is a difficult concept to grasp! Using colour as a descriptive is fine, infering meaning from that is racist.

 

You don't have to refer to a persons colour to be racist, see the Daily Mail - dog whistle racism is all in the implied meaning.

 

Trump saying'shithole' countries was clearly racist, without the use of racial terms.

[cloggypop]

Would it be alright to call Lario a thick paddy cunt?

[s(k)aturation]

Only if you are Irish yourself and are reclaiming these extreme words for your own use to reduce their psychological toll.

 

Apparently.  Sorry, definitely.

[TheHowieLama]

Not that obvious. The Howie Lama doesn’t think the word nigger is racist, because African American rappers use it liberally.

 

Spectacularly missing the point -- confirmed by the fact PC421 jumped onboard - as you point out below the word is not inherently racist. Unless you are so paralyzed by those two particular words anytime they are mentioned by a white guy, regardless of context,  that fella is immediately a racist - which of course is not true. They are just words - a couple of which you seem to really be frightened by. You should be more frightened by context and deed - especially the latter as the guy who chooses a white candidate over a black one for his legal firm every time probably does not use that word. And the Indian shopkeeper who never hires any one who isn't Indian may not either.

 

Being racist is thinking one race is superior to another. It seems obvious to me at least that if you cursed someone whilst referring to their skin colour or ethnicity, you’d be seen as racist. 

 

Now we are on to it -  but still seemingly in a very simple black and white (see what I did there) take on it. Mentioning a single persons color or ethnicity in context in an insult is not inherently racist either (unless you really like to call people racists) as it does not come close to what you are describing. You are speaking to an individual. By calling Lario a thick Paddy cunt - Cloggy is not suggesting every Paddy is thick. He may feel that way, but I doubt it.

If you spoke that way to every member of that ethnicity then you would be. We can even say if you felt that way about not all, but a bunch then you would be.

[Johnlj]

All this racism shit have gone to far. A couple of examples from Denmark.

 

Liqoirice with heads resembling Zulu heads. Not allowed anymore got changed to something undefinable. No malice in that whatsoever. Just candy, unreal.

 

We had something made of soft marshmallows with Melted chocolate around it. Been called Black kisses for 100 years. Not allowed anymore, just candy/cake.

 

Same Company that makes them used to be called Sambo is now called Samba as Sambo is deemed racist.

 

We had a chocolate milk called Congo beer. Deemed racist and was put out of business, Got bought by the Company that makes Cocio.

 

What in the hell is wrong with the world. How can candy, cake and beverages be racist ? No malice in that. Been called it ages.

 

Not racist related but licourice pipes almost got banned because of it would encourage young people to smoke.

 

This is turning into a fucking joke.

 

What about renaming crackers ? Thats racist aswell in the same content racist wise.

[cloggypop]

Black kisses though? The Dutch version were called nigger kisses. Some gobshites still try to claim that wasn't racist as well.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I do giggle at the faux naivety angle that's not just on show in this post, but amongst the general public too, and is often used to justify and defend racist behaviour.

 

The "you can't say anything these days" approach, or the "I'm afraid to speak these days" etc. It's similar to Lario's largely unbelievable claims that he struggles to understand what's racist and what's not and when it's okay to make reference to a person's skin colour or not.

 

It's all fairly straight forward. Just don't use the word "black" etc to insult, degrade or generally be a bit snarky. Or when it's not really necessary.

 

The naivety approach is just an extension of the "snowflake" etc narrative and attempts to imply that the explicit or implicit racist isn't the one with the problem or behaving unacceptably, but rather that it's sensitive society that's the problem, namby pamby, PC gone mad etc.

[TheHowieLama]

 It's similar to Lario's largely unbelievable claims that he struggles to understand what's racist and what's not and when it's okay to make reference to a person's skin colour or not.

 

It's all fairly straight forward. Just don't use the word "black" etc to insult, degrade or generally be a bit snarky. 

 

I think you are confirming the gray area he has mentioned here -- it is only in negative context that these words are deemed racist?

After all if you say - Sheesh those asian fellas are really good at math - you are not claiming any sort of superiority.

So positive stereotypes and prejudices are not racisty? Or is that what you term snarky

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I think you are confirming the gray area he has mentioned here -- it is only in negative context that these words are deemed racist?

After all if you say - Sheesh those asian fellas are really good at math - you are not claiming any sort of superiority.

So positive stereotypes and prejudices are not racisty? Or is that what you term snarky

No. They're not really racist. As such.

 

They're just lazy, racial stereotypes. Which are all a bit pointless. And have several examples which refute the stereotype. Like most idle stereotypes often do.

[TheHowieLama]

Of course they do.

[Ranxerox]

All this racism shit have gone to far. A couple of examples from Denmark.

Liqoirice with heads resembling Zulu heads. Not allowed anymore got changed to something undefinable. No malice in that whatsoever. Just candy, unreal.

We had something made of soft marshmallows with Melted chocolate around it. Been called Black kisses for 100 years. Not allowed anymore, just candy/cake.

Same Company that makes them used to be called Sambo is now called Samba as Sambo is deemed racist.

We had a chocolate milk called Congo beer. Deemed racist and was put out of business, Got bought by the Company that makes Cocio.

What in the hell is wrong with the world. How can candy, cake and beverages be racist ? No malice in that. Been called it ages.

Not racist related but licourice pipes almost got banned because of it would encourage young people to smoke.

This is turning into a fucking joke.

What about renaming crackers ? Thats racist aswell in the same content racist wise.

 

We're living through a period of transition in the west as we try to make amends for the many destructive and hurtful realities of our Imperialist past. Race isn't even a scientific fact but is rather a social construct that we can all aspire to leave behind entirely someday.

[TheHowieLama]

I think that is where the PC angle gets distorted - the pendulum going to far in either direction hinders true progress towards that. As does the inability of some to put those words into todays context - thereby emascualting them. It is interesting that just these couple of words seem to really trigger an overly vociferous white Western European reaction. Understandable, but interesting.

The word cunt is completely taboo in America, moreso than either of these others.

Anyone used that in public here and the record scratches, complete silence, everyone standing mouths agape. Seems to not be the case in Britain.

[VladimirIlyich]

I think you are confirming the gray area he has mentioned here -- it is only in negative context that these words are deemed racist?

After all if you say - Sheesh those asian fellas are really good at math - you are not claiming any sort of superiority.

So positive stereotypes and prejudices are not racisty? Or is that what you term snarky

No,you'd be the cunt for not realising that it's Maths and not just Math.

[Ranxerox]

I think that is where the PC angle gets distorted - the pendulum going to far in either direction hinders true progress towards that. As does the inability of some to put those words into todays context - thereby emascualting them. It is interesting that just these couple of words seem to really trigger an overly vociferous white Western European reaction. Understandable, but interesting.

The word cunt is completely taboo in America, moreso than either of these others.

Anyone used that in public here and the record scratches, complete silence, everyone standing mouths agape. Seems to not be the case in Britain.

I agree with much of this. I think the pendulum shifts will become less pronounced and less notable with time, certainly that has been our experience here in regards to the advances in equality between French and English speaking peoples.

[TheHowieLama]

Its a big world Vlad -- only in your neck of the woods.

[Ranxerox]

No,you'd be the cunt for not realising that it's Maths and not just Math.

 

Elitist prick

[Johnlj]

I do giggle at the faux naivety angle that's not just on show in this post, but amongst the general public too, and is often used to justify and defend racist behaviour.

 

The "you can't say anything these days" approach, or the "I'm afraid to speak these days" etc. It's similar to Lario's largely unbelievable claims that he struggles to understand what's racist and what's not and when it's okay to make reference to a person's skin colour or not.

 

It's all fairly straight forward. Just don't use the word "black" etc to insult, degrade or generally be a bit snarky. Or when it's not really necessary.

 

The naivety approach is just an extension of the "snowflake" etc narrative and attempts to imply that the explicit or implicit racist isn't the one with the problem or behaving unacceptably, but rather that it's sensitive society that's the problem, namby pamby, PC gone mad etc.

 

 

Thinking back I went to a school with about 700 pupils and a maximum 10 of them was another heritage than Danish. Still friends with one of them today. He is laughing at all these racism things going on everywhere around the world. He is from Turkey. 

 

Today we are a multi cultured nation and my nephew have alot of friends from the middle east and Africa, most of them are sound lads. When following my nephews football team I talk to alot of their parents and also his pals. They are around 18-20 years of age. They couldn't care less about candy called or resembling the color black and what not.

 

What they get offended about is derogatory language like N*gger and stuff like that. But what really hurts them the most is their parents getting passed by on jobs or not being able to get one because of skin color or predujice against them. Most of them fear the same will happen to them when they are finished with their educations. And that's where the real problem lies, not in some candy/cakes called this or that.

 

I hope the next few generations of born Danes will sort that shit out as this generation is grown up with second and third generation foreigners. Sons and daughters of  people who were came here to work when Denmark came calling as we could not fulfil the workforce needed.

 

Problems arising from ghettos of youngsters who'd rather be criminal we have huge problems with. We have places where even the cops won't go no matterwhat happens. That breeds racism as papers constantly writes stuff about this and the rightwing is hastily growing here. That shit needs to be stopped as Europe generally is pulling to the right hastily and that would be a nigtmare of proportions that will be catastrophic.