Does Rodgers deserve another season.

[xerxes]

He needs to learn from the problems.

That is the heart of it, isn't it?

 

But I worry that the problem is not that he doesn't understand the options, it is that he does, and doesn't think they will improve things.

[thompsonsnose]

He should certainly get at least another season. Chopping and changing managers isn't the answer. Consistency is important.

 

He needs to learn from the problems. 

Thread started in March 2013 because he wasn't learning from mistakes.

How much longer does he need?

[thompsonsnose]

When he is clearly incapable of learning or adapting or admitting hes wrong?

I know this is going to be seen as knee jerk, but can there be ANYONE alive, who would have started a game with an injured Joe Allen ahead of Lucas or Henderson today?

And then taken so long to react to what transpired.

He just isn't progressing, doesn't seem to be learning and is either stupid or stubborn where persevering with dead end signings are concerned. What is it that Joe Allen does well? Even when fit?

I don't see it.

 

Then, consider his motivational skills. Fresh off the back of a (slightly undeserved) win against Spurs, you'd think he could keep that steely eye on the prize for a trip to relegation fodder like Southampton.

Obliging Gerrard to stay deep because hes picked a ballet dancer as his midfield accomplice is not the way forward. Gerrard is NOT a player who will age gracefully moving back through the formation.

 

I don't think Rodgers knows what hes doing. Its happening too often.

 

Ready.

Aim.

Fire.

.

[Tyler Durden]

I think he will be gone by New Years day

[ritchie]

I think every last person on that committee should be sacked before the summer along with Rodgers' backroom staff, 

 

FSG bottled it in 2012 by letting Rodgers dictate the terms, not appointing proper administrators and promoting Ian Ayre rather than binning him when Comolli and Kenny were sacked. 

[xerxes]

I think he will be gone by New Years day

If we lose to Bournemouth and then Wimbledon with poor league results in between he will go.

 

But I suspect he will do enough to see out the season. With Sturridge back we should see an upturn.

[xerxes]

FSG bottled it in 2012 by letting Rodgers dictate the terms, not appointing proper administrators and promoting Ian Ayre rather than binning him when Comolli and Kenny were sacked.

I think you are right.

 

The problem is that FSG don't want to be challenged which is why they appointed Ayre, and Ayre didn't want to be challenged which is why he appointed Brendan.

[ritchie]

I think you are right.

 

The problem is that FSG don't want to be challenged which is why they appointed Ayre, and Ayre didn't want to be challenged which is why he appointed Brendan.

 

And Brendan didn't want to be challenged so appointed Marsh and Pascoe.

 

When does it stop?

[Kevin D]

Last night and the way he's handled our European campaign generally have been disgraceful. That said, I'm still with him. Sunday won't be pretty, but I think we'll continue putting points together after that and be within touchin distance of the top 4 fairly soon.

[J-V]

£220 million spent. Crap defence and midfield. Mediocre 'keeper and attack. No organisation, no leadership, no fight. Relegation form. Embarrassing in Europe.

The Rodgers effect.

[El Rojo]

He should certainly get at least another season. Chopping and changing managers isn't the answer. Consistency is important.

 

He needs to learn from the problems. 

 

 

As depressing as things are now, and as poor as his management has been over the last three months, I agree with this.

 

The frequency at which we're chopping and changing everything, including managers, threatens to turn us into a club as irrelevant as Aston Villa at every level.

 

[Phoenix]

Bascombe seems to be suggesting Ayre is briefing the press about the signings taking time to gell not that they are shite

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Section_31]

I think you are right.

 

The problem is that FSG don't want to be challenged which is why they appointed Ayre, and Ayre didn't want to be challenged which is why he appointed Brendan.

 

I actually think FSG's problem all along has been the opposite, they seem to get carried away and make spur of the moment decisions - early on at least, seemingly in an effort to please and placate - rather than calculated ones, that could stem from the fact they weren't expecting to own the club in the first place before it got hawked out to them on the cheap.

 

They have always had that 'rabbit in headlights' look wealthy Americans get when theyr'e unexpectadly confronted with a different culture, especially 'quaint' English culture. FSG act the way Hilary Clinton woudl react if you told her she'd inherited the Rover's Return.

 

She'd turn up, take a swig and go 'Mmmm I've heard about the warm beer in England, warm beers for all!' 'They call this 'a pint of mild!'. She'd probably also throw a picture of Margaret Thatcher up on the wall thinking that that's what the good people of Salford would like.

 

She'd then go back to her Hampton's crib and tell her friends she owned 'a pub' but that the locals had stopped drinking there since she put warm Mead on tap and installed a gramaphone.

 

I first thought this when FSG started to make nosies about consulting the fans and fan mouthpieces, fair enough I thought, but what's that really got to do with the things that matter? Getting a top class CEO, getting the architecht around to survey the ground etc.

 

The second worry was for me - and I'll have to claime amnesty here - when they appointed Dalglish in a permanent role. That was purely about the fans and about the fact he'd done well in a short tenure. If you'd taken a step back and looked at that decision, you'd see he'd been out of the game for a long, long time and had a disasterous transfer record at Newcastle. Taking that into account, his trasnfer record here could have been predicted, as could his increasing isolation and distrust for the media.

 

Switching tack so quickly from Martinez to Rodgers showed that they din't have a 'man' in mind, but an 'idea'. If one young manager won't do then another will, that makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. The beauty of a young player is that he's physically fitter and more capable than an older player, physical condition is meaningless for  a manager - what you need is experience and proven ability.

 

Again it just smacked of rash decision making. Rodgers wans't our man, he was a carbon copy of the man they thought they wanted, with little understanding of why they wanted that man in the first place.

 

I don't know how much of this stems from their understanding of American sport, maybe they're more devolved, with more people making the decisions, I don't know, but it doesn't work here - you don't need a Parliament you need an Emperor.

 

The last thing which worried me along those lines was the way they acquiesced  so quickly on having a DOF, agan, it smacked of 'let's see what happens'.

 

The problem with all this long and windingly blind journey is that they're making expensive mistakes, money is being handed over that we'll never get back.

 

They need to sit down, take stock, listen to people who know football, get the right CEO, the right manager and back him financially again. Sit back and let football men do the football.

[ratcatcher]

His comment about spurs spending £100m and should be winning titles for that money will come back to haunt him.

 

I think the owners will give him into next season.

[ZonkoVille77]

It shouldn't be up to Sturridge to save him. He has enough at his disposal to make us a decent team but his tactics and tinkering are fucking it up. He stumbled upon a successful formation last season due to trying to fit Suarez and Sturridge into the team together. He hasn't a fucking clue what he's at and it shows by the subs he's making throughout the games.

 

If he wants to save his job then he needs to go back to basics and play players in their correct position and have adequate cover on the bench. Imagine going into a CL game with Lambert as your only striker?! that's a sackable offence right there. And his pre-match bollocks about folklore and all that jazz. Spewing absolute shite that's making him out to be worse than Woy.

 

Death by football? Death by talking us all to sleep. 

[ritchie]

Bascombe seems to be suggesting Ayre is briefing the press about the signings taking time to gell not that they are shite

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

He would wouldn't he? He's complicit in all the money wasted as he's on the committee himself and negotiates for the players.  If there's one thing Ayre is good at it's self preservation.

[Paco]

at the minute, no.

 

The pressure is on to start getting something out of these players hes signed because they are What he ll be judged on.

 

the players hes worked with for a couple of years arent producing. the new players arent producing. its a very difficult situation he finds himself in.

[Boss]

FSG think they're cutting edge, when actually they don't have a clue. Hence the moneyball era "we can transfer what worked in baseball to football" and the fallout from that, sacking a DOF that did exactly what they wanted him to do, a manager that followed their instructions to the letter. 

 

Of course Commoli took the brunt of it, because no-one wanted to pin the blame on Kenny after all he'd done for the club, but it was FSG that caused that shit, and escaped through the back door like Ched Evan's when the masses doled out the blame.

 

Fast forward to today, Brendan and the scouting team are doing exactly what FSG want them to do, signing kid's and nurturing them into first team players. How can a top football club cut out signing players from 27-32 years old? the entire prime years of a footballer and expect them to compete for trophy's every year? the cynic in me say's FSG want us to be a finishing school for the big two in Spain and Chelsea. We'll see the likes Sterling and Coutinho plucked from us as they approach their prime and it'll be "reset, start again" rinse and repeat. The old adage is the truest thing in football, "never sell your best players" and we've fell into the trap of twisting rather than sticking. Why was this done? to buy a squad capable of competing in all competitions and the champions league......hows that working out exactly?

 

But when all's said and done it'll be Brendan that takes the brunt for FSG's totally unrealistic and inflexible philosophy. But instead of sacking everyone and getting a new team in every time someone makes a mistake, how about allowing them to learn from those mistakes? so history doesn't repeat itself over and over and we don't end up in a perpetual cycle of boom and bust.

[xerxes]

I actually think FSG's problem all along has been the opposite, they seem to get carried away and make spur of the moment decisions, etc

I agree with pretty much all of that, I just also think that the evidence is that they do appoint low achievers who have promise to key positions at LFC.

 

I believe a fundamental problem with FSG, a US consortium, owning us. There is a saying that a camel is a horse made by committee, and with 18 consortium members they will always take conservative decisions. You won’t get vision from this lot.

 

Furthermore with only Henry owning over 10% of the club, and the rest holding 10% or less as individuals, this is an investment club, one in which they will not make a lot of money, nor lose a lot of money. It won’t get a lot of attention. Nor will we go bust.

 

They bought us for £220m plus £80m debt, they could almost certainly sell us now for £320m plus debt just on football inflation, not performance. They are happy.

 

I think that they own us as a safe investment with limited downside, for fun, and to keep a toe in a burgeoning worldwide market- football.

 

In England, they are up against competition which is unlikely to be shifted by their ownership. Mansour owns City to promote a country and worldwide business interests, not least Ethiad airlines. CL football and worldwide superstars are essential to that. Abrahamovic owned Chelsea both as a political bolthole and as a platform for his personal wealth. Both Mansour and Abrahamovic also have the advantage that they like football. Our modest stadium plans will still see Arsenal and Man U outgun our matchday income by over £40m a season. At Arsenal the capacity for them to spend big over that remains, at Man U the Glazers have shown no reluctance to spend to consolidate their elite status.

 

FSG are not bad owners, nor are they going to return us to the top table on a permanent basis ( as much as anything in football is permanent). On the one hand I think their instincts will be for Brendan to play out the season and review things then. But, if we go out to Bournemouth and Wimbledon and stagger along in the EL and PL they may change early. The new stand will offer very expensive seats which will need to be filled by cup runs and European competition, that will be non-negotiable.

[xerxes]

FSG think they're cutting edge, when actually they don't have a clue. Hence the moneyball era "we can transfer what worked in baseball to football" and the fallout from that, sacking a DOF that did exactly what they wanted him to do, a manager that followed their instructions to the letter.

In the cold light of day, appointing a manager with only three years management experience, one in the top flight, none in Europe, not reappointing a DOF, then giving him £200m to spend seems extraordinary.

[DanDanShaw]

Embarrassing to be playing a Champions League game and throwing Skrtel upfront for the last 5 minutes.  Reminds me of the Greek under Hodgson.  We've spunked how much money under him and we had to play a centre half upfront because our only striker was subbed off at half time to work the night shift.

[Boss]

Embarrassing to be playing a Champions League game and throwing Skrtel upfront for the last 5 minutes.  Reminds me of the Greek under Hodgson.  We've spunked how much money under him and we had to play a centre half upfront because our only striker was subbed off at half time to work the night shift.

 

In fairness we were down to 10 men and needed an extra body up front.

[Dr. J]

I'm old enough to remember when people had a job for life, then it became 2 or 3. My kids will have 2 or 3 careers before they're done. Things change.

 

Atletico Madrid had 5 managers in 5 years - the 5th was Simeone. Real Madrid have a new manager every 2 years. Chelsea have had how many? They went to the Cl final with Avram fucking Grant, and won it with di Matteo. Changing managers doesn't mean a damn thing if you get the right one. How many trophies has Arsenal won recently.

 

I don't think Rodgers is the right one.

[Section_31]

The biggest thing going against Rodgers when people call to give him more time is what eventually led to Dalglish's downfall - the signings.

 

You can be the greatest coach in the world but you can only work with what you've got, and you've only got what you've bought, Rodgers has proven consistently he can't spot a player so at that stage, what's the point in carrying on?

 

How is he going to rectify the team's shortcomings if, nine times out of ten, even if you give him 20 or 30 million quid he's probably going to sign the wrong player in the wrong position.

 

At the moment, for example, we have Markovich, Lallana and Coutinho all pretty much vying for teh same role and yet none of them started last night - that's nearly 70 million quids worth of player - truly astounding.

[xerxes]

I'm old enough to remember when people had a job for life, then it became 2 or 3. My kids will have 2 or 3 careers before they're done. Things change.

 

Atletico Madrid had 5 managers in 5 years - the 5th was Simeone. Real Madrid have a new manager every 2 years. Chelsea have had how many? They went to the Cl final with Avram fucking Grant, and won it with di Matteo. Changing managers doesn't mean a damn thing if you get the right one. How many trophies has Arsenal won recently.

 

I don't think Rodgers is the right one.

I thought that FSG's decision to bin KK after the LC win was harsh but right.

 

There was also a case for saying that Brendan had done a fabulous job getting us into the Top Four and CL, but staying there was going to need different skills, and a man with more experience. Chelsea did the same with Di Matteo- and were right.

 

FSG have a difficult balancing act. The loss of the SAS IS a contributing factor- but so is Brendans flawed transfer dealings. Do they back a man who looks like he is wasting their money, or do they appoint a new man and tell him that there isn't much money around as the last man blew it?