What is acceptable after 19 games of our PL season?

[Jose Jones]

Not sure if I agree with the first part, I think we are definitely pressing higher up the pitch and winning the ball back more in the midfield third this season, I wouldn't be surprised if we are winning the ball abck more often than last season as well. I've mentioned this on the MF, but Allen has been instrumental in this.

 

I think the way Rodgers has his teams pressing is to press zonally, or when there are certain triggers which signal when to press, I guess this could make it look like there is a bit of disconnect and is also something that will improve over time with practice.

 

We are leaving too big a gap between defence and midfield though, or between the defenders themselves (which might be why we are trying 3 at the back), however having Lucas back should hopefully make a massive difference.

 

Yeah I agree with that. I didn't word my critique well enough really. It's when the opposition get past the first zonal press, that our pressing has broken down. This has been especially noticeable in front of the defence, where the structure to win or pick up the ball has been missing. Either one of the centre backs needs to push out or a centre midfielder drop in I would say.

[Ranxerox]

A good analysis of the Chelsea game, also more discussion of how we don't get the ball forward, seems to square with many other things we are seeing.

 

Chelsea 1-1 Liverpool: poor quality game with goals from corners | Zonal Marking

[Original202]

Just had a look at the upcoming fixtures for everyone and had a go on the BBC predictor up to 19 games:

 

Man Utd 45

Man City 43

Chelsea 35

Spurs 33

Arsenal 33

West Brom 31

Everton 30

Liverpool 27

West Ham 27

Swansea 26

Stoke 25

Fulham 22

Newcastle 20

Norwich 20

Sunderland 18

Southampton 17

Wigan 16

Villa 16

Reading 12

QPR 9

 

2 wins and 2 draws from our next 4 games would take us to 27 points and with a lot of other teams playing each other could take us 6 points within the top 4 going in to January.

 

Whether a new signing or two will be enough to make up the gap I'm not sure.

[Code]

So now we have two games left before we have reached halfway through the season.

 

Fulham at home and Stoke away, to reach the 27 points target I set as a minimum when I started this thread we need to win both, but my fear is we will win neither and might not even surpass Hodgsons abysmal 25 points after 19 games.

 

Right now it looks like this.

 

12/13 standings:

1. Man United 17 14 0 3 43-24 42p

2. Man City 17 10 6 1 33-15 36p

3. Chelsea 16 8 5 3 28-17 29p

4. Everton 17 6 9 2 28-21 27p

5. Tottenham 16 8 2 6 29-25 26p

6. West Bromwich 16 8 2 6 24-21 26p

7. Norwich 17 6 7 4 19-25 25p

8. Arsenal 16 6 6 4 26-16 24p

9. Stoke 17 5 9 3 15-13 24p

10. Swansea 16 6 5 5 26-21 23p

11. West Ham 16 6 4 6 21-20 22p

12. Liverpool 17 5 7 5 23-23 22p

 

We also look at the last three seasons to compare it with them after 19 games.

 

 

Halfway through the 11/12 season:

1. Man City 18 14 3 1 53-15 45p

2. Man United 19 14 3 2 49-17 45p

3. Tottenham 18 12 3 3 35-20 39p

4. Arsenal 19 11 3 5 35-26 36p

5. Chelsea 19 10 4 5 37-24 34p

6. Liverpool 19 9 7 3 24-15 34p

7. Newcastle 19 8 6 5 26-25 30p

8. Stoke 19 7 5 7 20-30 26p

9. Aston Villa 19 5 8 6 22-24 23p

10. Norwich 19 5 7 7 28-34 22p

11. West Brom 18 6 4 8 19-26 22p

12. Everton 17 6 3 8 18-20 21p

13. Fulham 19 4 8 7 20-25 20p

14. Swansea 19 4 8 7 18-23 20p

 

Halfway through the 10/11 season:

1. Man United 19 11 8 0 41-18 41p

2. Man City 21 12 5 4 33-16 41p

3. Arsenal 20 12 3 5 42-22 39p

4. Tottenham 20 10 6 4 30-23 36p

5. Chelsea 19 10 4 5 33-15 34p

6. Sunderland 21 7 9 5 24-22 30p

7. Bolton 21 7 8 6 33-28 29p

8. Stoke 20 8 3 9 25-24 27p

9. Liverpool 19 7 4 8 23-24 25p

10. Blackpool 18 7 4 7 26-30 25p

 

Halfway through the 09/10 season:

1. Chelsea 19 13 3 3 43-15 42p

2. Man United 19 13 1 5 40-18 40p

3. Arsenal 18 12 2 4 47-20 38p

4. Aston Villa 19 10 5 4 29-17 35p

5. Tottenham 19 10 4 5 40-22 34p

6. Man City 18 8 8 2 35-27 32p

7. Liverpool 19 9 3 7 36-25 30p

8. Birmingham 19 8 5 6 19-18 29p

9. Fulham 18 7 6 5 23-17 27p

10. Sunderland 19 6 4 9 26-29 22p

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Well seeing as we are all now splittng the season into two parts to justify a stance, 18 points from 19 games is not accpetbale.

 

I will make my judgement after 38 games regarding our season thanks all the same.

[Code]

Well seeing as we are all now splittng the season into two parts to justify a stance, 18 points from 19 games is not accpetbale.

 

I will make my judgement after 38 games regarding our season thanks all the same.

 

So will I and unless we win a cup, anything less than 60 points will not be acceptable.

 

But seeing Hodgson got sacked after his terrible start I think its only fair to make a comparison and ask why its acceptable with lower expectations?

[kalasoma]

By looking at performances halfway through each season, will it help us to predict where the team will be at the end?

[Skidfingers McGonical]

 

So will I

 

Just fishing then?

[Code]

Just fishing then?

 

Not really, I think its reasonable fair to make up status so far halfway through the season, after all we have played all teams once after 19 games.

[Code]

Double post.

[Code]

We have won 5 out of 17 games at the moment, the only team we have won against who was above us in the table at the time was West Ham.

 

We have not been above 10th once so far this season.

 

Out of the 5 teams we have beaten this season, 3 just came up from the Championship (West Ham, Soton and Reading), another one came up last season (Norwich) and the other team is Wigan who have been fighting relegation for years.

 

In other words its been incredible poor and the football we are playing does not really give much hope for improvement either.

 

We have conceded 10 more goals than what we had at the same time last season and apart from Suarez with 10 goals and Gerrard with 2 goals we dont have any players with more than 1 league goal.

 

I struggle to find any positives really, its just shite, incredible shite.

[Guest davelfc]

I bet you told everyone in the cinema that Bruce Willis was a ghost didn't you?

[Guest LFD]

We have won 5 out of 17 games at the moment, the only team we have won against who was above us in the table at the time was West Ham.

 

We have not been above 10th once so far this season.

 

Out of the 5 teams we have beaten this season, 3 just came up from the Championship (West Ham, Soton and Reading), another one came up last season (Norwich) and the other team is Wigan who have been fighting relegation for years.

 

In other words its been incredible poor and the football we are playing does not really give much hope for improvement either.

 

We have conceded 10 more goals than what we had at the same time last season and apart from Suarez with 10 goals and Gerrard with 2 goals we dont have any players with more than 1 league goal.

 

I struggle to find any positives really, its just shite, incredible shite.

 

 

Don't think anyone can not saying it hasn't been anything but very disappointing so far.

 

But he needs time and I just hope he can get it right in January, as he has to for his sake IMO.

[Delmar]

To me it's points. 70 points this season, 80 points next. And I know all about low expectations, I have worked way too long to miss that starting point. I just hope others don't do that...

 

I agree with me. A club with our resources should be there. 70 points this season, anything else is failure.

[TheHowieLama]

I agree with me. A club with our resources should be there. 70 points this season, anything else is failure.

 

we're doomed

[Trucker Paddy]

Norwich Swansea WBA,all new managers all ahead of us despite finishing behind us and spending a lot less. They could reach 2nd place ahead of us if we're not careful.

[Hand Shandy]

I'm not sure this has been mentioned before.

 

It's certainly a new one for Code.

[ngogswilly]

Norwich Swansea WBA,all new managers all ahead of us despite finishing behind us and spending a lot less. They could reach 2nd place ahead of us if we're not careful.

 

I think its a fair point what you're saying there.

 

But we do have half a season to go.

 

If we finish behind them at the end of the season then questions do need to be asked.

[amli]

10 points or less off 4th we could make up ground with a good January transfer window.

After the summer window cock-up, it was always about damage limitation till Jan.

[Block109'er]

But seeing Hodgson got sacked after his terrible start I think its only fair to make a comparison and ask why its acceptable with lower expectations?

 

It's certainly very interesting to make that comparison and ask ourselves why in on the whole we're not as dissatisfied 'yet' with Rodgers as we were with Hodgson?

 

Brendan is very slick with the media and says the right things. Brendan also says what he thinks the fans want to hear (and some credit to him for that) where as Hodgson didn't. 1-0 Rodgers

 

Hodgson's football was 'negative and dour' which is certainly more derided than 'possession for the sake of it' although sorry Brendan but neither really get the pulse racing to be honest. 2-0 Rodgers

 

Bredan is giving youth a chance which is nice to see albeit a bit forced and circumstantial. Hodgson didn't. 3-0 Rodgers

 

Hodgson's signings were very poor and did very little to improve the team, although I did quite like Meireles. Rodger's signings whilst the 'Jury is Out' don't really seem to be doing much to influence games. Still 3-0 to Rodgers.

[Pidge]

I'd say a bunch of crying, panicky fans isn't acceptable at this point.

[ngogswilly]

It's certainly very interesting to make that comparison and ask ourselves why in on the whole we're not as dissatisfied 'yet' with Rodgers as we were with Hodgson?

 

Brendan is very slick with the media and says the right things. Brendan also says what he thinks the fans want to hear (and some credit to him for that) where as Hodgson didn't. 1-0 Rodgers

 

Hodgson's football was 'negative and dour' which is certainly more derided than 'possession for the sake of it' although sorry Brendan but neither really get the pulse racing to be honest. 2-0 Rodgers

 

Bredan is giving youth a chance which is nice to see albeit a bit forced and circumstantial. Hodgson didn't. 3-0 Rodgers

 

Hodgson's signings were very poor and did very little to improve the team' date=' although I did quite like Meireles. Rodger's signings whilst the 'Jury is Out' don't really seem to be doing much to influence games. Still 3-0 to Rodgers.[/quote']

 

Rodgers also doesn't have a 35 year history of mediocrity.

[kalasoma]

It's certainly very interesting to make that comparison and ask ourselves why in on the whole we're not as dissatisfied 'yet' with Rodgers as we were with Hodgson?

 

Brendan is very slick with the media and says the right things. Brendan also says what he thinks the fans want to hear (and some credit to him for that) where as Hodgson didn't. 1-0 Rodgers

 

Hodgson's football was 'negative and dour' which is certainly more derided than 'possession for the sake of it' although sorry Brendan but neither really get the pulse racing to be honest. 2-0 Rodgers

 

Bredan is giving youth a chance which is nice to see albeit a bit forced and circumstantial. Hodgson didn't. 3-0 Rodgers

 

Hodgson's signings were very poor and did very little to improve the team' date=' although I did quite like Meireles. Rodger's signings whilst the 'Jury is Out' don't really seem to be doing much to influence games. Still 3-0 to Rodgers.[/quote']

 

I questioned Hodgson's appointment and was dissatisfied with Hodgson before his appointment. I was happy to see him gone by January. I think many others were too.

[Delmar]

we're doomed

 

Nah, just a failure, if things go this way. Doomed, only if we are relegated. When Benitez was here, we expected to win the league. When Houllier was here, we expected to win the damn thing. I still expect the same.

[myrlas]

I said it after a couple of games, and I can repeat it once more: Rodgers will buy himself loads of patiece with the fans if he tries to do what he aims to do with the likes of Sterling, Suso and Wisdom.

 

The problem recently is that we see more and more of Joe Cole.

 

And that kind of gives a counter effect.

 

One thing is certain, and that is they way we conceded that last goal against Villa won't be the last time this season. It's been coming for months. We simply don't have enough quality players to receive the ball with the back against the goal, a defender pressing, and keeping posession. We lose it easily, and are hit on the counter, ending up with 3 vs 3 or 4 vs 4. (or worse). That is a major defensive problem, but the whole problem starts with a combination of the tactics and the sloppy players receiving passes with stupid flick ons and so on.