André Villas Boas (Manager)

[Red Nick]

Kenny: four league titles and two FA Cups.

 

No shit but I bet that's going to open a whole new level of debate

[zigackly]

No shit but I bet that's going to open a whole new level of debate

 

Where is the debate? He proved last season that he has not forgotten a thing and still has what it takes to make it in modern management with the right backroom team around him.

[Red Nick]

Kenny was my Manager of the season last season for what he achieved with the resources at his disposal and like everything and every manager since he left us he will now have to manage the expectations as he will be the first manager since Evans that will have 100% transfer support from the club.

[silverlining]

No shit but I bet that's going to open a whole new level of debate

 

Is it?

[zigackly]

Evans never had 20% support, but one rider I will add is that anyone expecting to go from 7th and then 6th to top in one bite is completely deluding themselves. Kenny has been given a three year contract and as far as I am concerned he should be given at least that long to work his magic, regardless of results.

[silverlining]

Kenny was my Manager of the season last season for what he achieved with the resources at his disposal and like everything and every manager since he left us he will now have to manage the expectations as he will be the first manager since Evans that will have 100% transfer support from the club.

 

That's an utterly meaningless phrase. 100% support?

 

So if Kenny wanted £40m to buy Neymar and £45m to buy Sanchez and £200,000 a week wages each to be signed off, he'd get 100% support would he?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Evans never had 20% support, but one rider I will add is that anyone expecting to go from 7th and then 6th to top in one bite is completely deluding themselves. Kenny has been given a three year contract and as far as I am concerned he should be given at least that long to work his magic, regardless of results.

 

But when you look at it in perspective, a different picture can be painted. If you look further than just 6th place, it's less crazy to think we could, if we spend money correctly, go very hard at the league.

 

Things to consider:

 

1) We were the second best team in the league after Kenny took over.

2) We were without our best player.

3) We lost Torres and his replacement was injured or playing whilst recovering from one.

4) We've got what seems like a massive transfer budget. A lot rests on how that's spent. We could conceivably have 4/5 new first team players by next season, and Gerrard back and a fit Carroll, as well as a stronger squad.

 

Whilst it's an incredible ask, it's not delusion. I think top 2 isn't impossible, but a lot depends on who we manage to bring in.

[zigackly]

But when you look at it in perspective, a different picture can be painted. If you look further than just 6th place, it's less crazy to think we could, if we spend money correctly, go very hard at the league.

 

Things to consider:

 

1) We were the second best team in the league after Kenny took over.

2) We were without our best player.

3) We lost Torres and his replacement was injured or playing whilst recovering from one.

4) We've got what seems like a massive transfer budget. A lot rests on how that's spent. We could conceivably have 4/5 new first team players by next season, and Gerrard back and a fit Carroll, as well as a stronger squad.

 

Whilst it's an incredible ask, it's not delusion. I think top 2 isn't impossible, but a lot depends on who we manage to bring in.

 

You appear to be assuming that everyone else will stand still, when at least three, possibly four of the clubs above us have the financial muscle to outspend us and the cachet of the Champions League to attract the best players. Personally with all the unknowns at this stage, I would be very happy with a strong challenge for Champions League qualification. I do think Kenny might surprise us all, but in no way would I want to put any expectations on him at this point.

[silverlining]

You appear to be assuming that everyone else will stand still. Personally with all the unknowns at this stage, I would be very happy with a strong challenge for Champions League qualification. I do think Kenny might surprise us all, but in no way would I want to put any expectations on him at this stage.

 

Yeah, me either.

 

And I suppose that does lead me onto what I consider could be one of the disadvantages to having Kenny as manager - his standing with Liverpool fans is such that he could lead us to relegation and we'd still be right behind him.

 

He's Kenny Dalglish.

 

There isn't a manager in the world as loved and revered by the fans as him. That's a great refelection on him (and us) but also means that he's got more fan leeway/ goodwill than any other person in a similar position.

[zigackly]

Relegation might be too far even for me! I think a bit of leeway does no harm to be honest. It often does take a little while for a new manager to get his team right.

[silverlining]

Relegation might be too far even for me! I think a bit of leeway does no harm to be honest. It often does take a little while for a new manager to get his team right.

 

OK, OK that might have been an exaggeration, but the rest is pretty accurate.

[Red Nick]

Put another way Hodgson, Houlllier and Rafa would have loved the same level of support that Kenny is currently getting

[zigackly]

Tell you something, I'm not half looking forward to finding out.

[silverlining]

Put another way Hodgson, Houlllier and Rafa would have loved the same level of support that Kenny is currently getting

 

Perhaps. But the FSG support has only so far meant that we reinvested the Torres money and have now spent £13m on Henderson. Let's see how we get on over the rest of the summer.

 

As for the fan support, well, it's Kenny Dalglish. But both Houllier and Benitez had very staunch support, in the main. Not at the level of Kenny, but that's impossible for anyone else.

[Red Nick]

its the now that matters

 

Wenger has won more trophies than Kenny but is currently passed it and won his most recent trophy a lot more recently than the king and you can use that argument with Rafa as well.

 

On last season's achievements the King outperformed Wenger now we shall see if he can do it over a season

[silverlining]

its the now that matters

 

Wenger has won more trophies than Kenny but is currently passed it and won his most recent trophy a lot more recently than the king and you can use that argument with Rafa as well.

 

On last season's achievements the King outperformed Wenger now we shall see if he can do it over a season

 

It's not as if Kenny has been competing for trophies and failing in the interim period, is it?

[zigackly]

Nick, I don't think you can argue that two FA Cups outweigh a league title unless you are either French or an Arsenal fan. Wenger has also had considerably longer in the job.

 

Maybe I am completely misreading you but I can't help feeling from a lot of your recent posts that you have the knife ready for Kenny. You say you don't want to load any pressure on him and that you trust him, but seem to be constantly chipping around the edges.

 

My apologies if I have got the wrong end of the stick.

Edited June 21, 2011 by zigackly

[Red Nick]

Not the point I was trying to make, lets stick to the main point is he got the job because he deserved it on football grounds alone. the fact there are so many other positive factors about him being our manager shouldnt disguise the fact that he is employed to win football matches, its that simple

[zigackly]

Not the point I was trying to make, lets stick to the main point is he got the job because he deserved it on football grounds alone. the fact there are so many other positive factors about him being our manager shouldnt disguise the fact that he is employed to win football matches, its that simple

 

Fair enough mate. Perhaps I am overzealous in his defence.

 

I freely admit that my near unconditional love for him informs my argument.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

You appear to be assuming that everyone else will stand still

 

Maybe if you read only one of my posts ever. I've specifically pointed out the same thing on the Summer 2011 thread, only to be shot down.

 

when at least three, possibly four of the clubs above us have the financial muscle to outspend us and the cachet of the Champions League to attract the best players. Personally with all the unknowns at this stage, I would be very happy with a strong challenge for Champions League qualification. I do think Kenny might surprise us all, but in no way would I want to put any expectations on him at this point.

 

We've no idea how much will be spend, or by whom. We've also no idea how much of the money will be recouped by selling their players, or whether the new players will be able to replace the outgoing ones.

 

We also have to remember in a very important piece of the puzzle: We've got no European competition. That's bad in a way, but good for the league. We've yet to see who City can attract and how they'll react to playing in the Champions League. It did work all that well for Spurs.

[silverlining]

Not the point I was trying to make, lets stick to the main point is he got the job because he deserved it on football grounds alone. the fact there are so many other positive factors about him being our manager shouldnt disguise the fact that he is employed to win football matches, its that simple

 

It's a bit more difficult to be objective when you're talking about Kenny Dalglish, though. You have to admit and appreciate that.

 

I've often said he's made some fucking terrible managerial decisions in his time, but at the end of the day, he's still Kenny Dalglish.

[zigackly]

Maybe if you read only one of my posts ever. I've specifically pointed out the same thing on the Summer 2011 thread, only to be shot down.

 

I'm trying to avoid that utter clusterfuck of a thread. Sorry for not hanging on your every word ...

 

We've no idea how much will be spend, or by whom. We've also no idea how much of the money will be recouped by selling their players, or whether the new players will be able to replace the outgoing ones.

 

We also have to remember in a very important piece of the puzzle: We've got no European competition. That's bad in a way, but good for the league. We've yet to see who City can attract and how they'll react to playing in the Champions League. It did work all that well for Spurs.

 

That's my main thrust though; still far too many unknowns to have a good clue what our hopes and expectations should be.

[WaltonRed]

I welcome him to the Premiership

 

We'll be alright, dont worry

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I'm trying to avoid that utter clusterfuck of a thread. Sorry for not hanging on your every word ...

 

You don't have to hang on my every word, just recall the posts that you read, quoted and replied to.

 

That's my main thrust though; still far too many unknowns to have a good clue what our hopes and expectations should be.

 

So you've changed your argument from 'deluded' to 'hopes and expectations'? I don't mind people telling me it's hard to judge what'll happen next season - I've said it myself - but I do have a problem being called deluded on the basis of a cursory analysis of last season's final position and turning a blind eye to the factors I've mentioned.

 

I think, and call me an overly positive fool if you like, that we can do incredibly well in the league if we spend wisely the mega-money we appear to have available, especially when you take into account those things I mentioned. I'm not saying that it is going to happen, I'm saying that people are not deluded because we think it could, with the right actions.

[zigackly]

You don't have to hang on my every word, just recall the posts that you read, quoted and replied to.

 

Got me there. I haven't a scooby obviously.

 

So you've changed your argument from 'deluded' to 'hopes and expectations'? I don't mind people telling me it's hard to judge what'll happen next season - I've said it myself - but I do have a problem being called deluded on the basis of a cursory analysis of last season's final position and turning a blind eye to the factors I've mentioned.

 

I think, and call me an overly positive fool if you like, that we can do incredibly well in the league if we spend wisely the mega-money we appear to have available, especially when you take into account those things I mentioned. I'm not saying that it is going to happen, I'm saying that people are not deluded because we think it could, with the right actions.

 

Perhaps we have some crossed wires here. I said that anyone expecting a title would be deluding themselves, not anyone who thinks it might happen. I think it might happen too, but the rational part of my brain tells me that I am perhaps being wildly optimistic.