Refs in our games

[Carra_is_legend]

What the fuck is going on? I am still absolutely fuming at some of the calls the cunting Taylor made yesterday. Rodri absolutely wiped out Salah...Taylor played on and they had a chance to score. de Bruyne falls over, Taylor couldn't wait to blow the whistle. Bernado Silva wrestled Salah down right in front of the linesman, somehow Klopp gets sent off and Salah gets a snidey little kick from the cunt. 2 fouls before their goal and we had to rely on VAR AND Taylor to look at the screen to make a call. If the foul was not clear cut, Taylor would have found a way to allow the goal to stand. Above all that, what really pissed me off was Taylor playing on even after Jota went down due to a genuine fucking injury! How many times the game has been stopped at Anfield in the past due to players going down with fake cramp????

 

We all know what happened against Arsenal and numerous other games, it just seems too frequent to be coincidental. 

 

Do we ever complain to PGMOL? If not, why the fuck not?  

 

[Barrington Womble]

Anthony Taylor is an utter cunt. I've said a million times before, he refs our games in a way where it's death by a 1000 cuts. He never gives us a thing. The ruled out goal is the perfect example. Salah through on goal, clear save, corner. He gives a goal kick. They come forward from the goal kick, foul by haaland, he lets that go. Haaland moves on into the box, leaves his foot on Ali, nothing given, foden taps home. 

 

The corner was clear on TV. The VAR said both haaland challenges were fouls (according to the BBC). They basically scored from what should be our corner despite 2 fouls along the way and it would have stood and been pretty unchallenged if VAR had not intervened. 3 false decisions against us in what was probably less than 30 seconds of play, setting aside their keepers fake injury. Death by 1000 cuts. 

 

I think when we mostly get fucked by refs, it's incompetence. With Anthony Taylor he's just a fucking cheat. Manc cunt. 

 

And what's more annoying both sky and BBC have said Taylor was right to let the fouls go and have them governed by VAR. Except that's not how it's supposed to work. VAR isn't there to re-referee games, it's there to correct clear and obvious mistakes and can only intervene in goal situations. So if when haaland fouls Ali it had gone for a corner and not gone to foden and they score from the corner, we can't go back. It's fucking outrageous that he's allowed to get away with it and I hope klopp's red card highlights what a cheat Taylor is or at least gives klopp and the club the opportunity to say he can fuck off and shouldn't be near our games any more. 

[gkmacca]

If you look at the rules of the game, there isn't really anything there to deal with the possibility of bias, even though, by convention rather than law, the FA and PL clearly do presume such a possibility.

 

Refs are not given games that feature a team they admit to supporting. That  relies of course on them admitting such a thing.

 

The threat of 'local' bias is intriguing: some refs are given games featuring clubs close to where they live, and others (especially London ones, it seems) are not. There's so little openness about such matters it's impossible to figure out exactly what the decisions are about this issue.

 

When it comes to clubs in general, I do think there needs to be a means of registering a lack of trust in certain refs, and a without prejudice way of discussing it, because without such a procedure the consequence is that certain refs, like Taylor or Paul Tierney, send certain managers, like Klopp, absolutely crazy on the touchline. 

 

A lot of the reaction, of course, is fan bias when decisions don't go our way, but certain refs DO have absolutely shocking performances, the evidence is there, and that needs exposing far more often and far more clearly, instead of getting the ex-refs to gather around the culprit the next morning and explain it all away.

[gkmacca]

Henry Winter in today's Times:

 

'The Kop pointed out Taylor’s Mancunian roots, yet he was born in Wythenshawe, an area more associated with City’s rivals, United'. 

 

Now, pardon me, Sherlock, but quite how that distinction is supposed to disprove the allegation that Taylor might not be entirely fair-minded about LFC is a mystery to me. 

[JagSquared]

While this game was particularly bad and this referee has form for it against us. I’ve heard similar complaints from fans of other clubs about the poor standards it’s across the board the whole system needs overhauling. Improve training and standards, hire refs from around the world and mix them up so they explain decisions. 

 

I also heard some idiot (dunno which pundit it was) on talksport this morning claiming that as per the rules the disallowed goal was a foul but the ref should have allowed it as he had told both managers that he was going to let the game flow beforehand??? So we just make up the rules on a game by game basis then?

[gkmacca]

What they all miss from this 'let the game flow' issue is that ALL refs are SUPPOSED to 'let the game flow'. It's not supposed to be some personal whim introduced for certain games! 

 

But 'letting the game flow' and ignoring all fouls are separate matters. A ref has to penalise clear fouls. That's why they're called fouls. That's why they're refs. He or she can decide not to whistle just to have a chat, or intervene when a decision might be deemed marginal, etc etc. But they're not supposed to just decide to ignore all the rules.

 

A ref has no right whatsoever to justify ignoring a foul because he or she had resolved to 'let the game flow'. If that's what letting a game flow means, then clearly you don't need a ref!!

[Carra_is_legend]

He didn't let the game flow the cunt, he gave them everything. The de Bruyne incident was a good example, he gave a free kick immediately even though Thiago didn't touch him. Where as when Rodri wiped out Salah, he chose to "let it flow" and had they scored from it, no doubt some cunts would have applauded him for letting the game flow. 

 

Apparently Neil Warnock said on Talkshite that it was one of the best ever referee performance he has seen. Jesus wept.  

[gkmacca]

Precisely. It's a ludicrous excuse for the things he let go, and it's an illogical excuse for all the times he clearly didn't 'let the game flow'. If a ref isn't going to penalise any fouls, then there's no need for him on the pitch. If he is going to penalise fouls, then there's no point in talking about 'letting the game flow'. The players can let the game flow by not fouling each other. It's not the ref's job to ignore fouls to keep the game moving. We all know the situations in which we feel a ref hasn't let the game flow - it's when he keeps giving fouls that we don't feel are fouls. That's when the game doesn't flow. The rest of it is irrelevant.

[Mook]

52 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

Henry Winter in today's Times:

 

'The Kop pointed out Taylor’s Mancunian roots, yet he was born in Wythenshawe, an area more associated with City’s rivals, United'. 

 

Now, pardon me, Sherlock, but quite how that distinction is supposed to disprove the allegation that Taylor might not be entirely fair-minded about LFC is a mystery to me. 

That'll be the same Man Utd who want City to beat us to every trophy.

 

Fucking joke.

[Bobby Hundreds]

The way they ignore fouls on Salah absolutely reeks to me. They are not looking at the fouls they are judging Salah and they are biased against him, all the stats and just watching the fucking fouls prove this. The clubs website should do a full video on the fouls against Salah that haven't been penalised. Then another page donating money to the fight against islamaphobia that's completely unrelated of course.

[Barrington Womble]

This "let the game flow" is surely meant to refer to the idea that not all contact us a foul? So when you feel a nudge, just fall to the ground, let the game flow. I am pretty sure it's not meant to refer to players having their shirts ragged off them or wrestled to the ground. 

 

 

[Barnesey]

I said after seeing the latest Kane penalty incident there’s no way Mo would get that

[manwiththestick]

Yeah, that pen Kane got against Everton this weekend, Salah would never get that.

 

I thought last night when Ederson saved and went down injured there was such a delay to allow a number of replays and commentators acknowledging a good save that someone would have a word with Taylor and tell him that it was a save and a corner.

[gkmacca]

11 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

This "let the game flow" is surely meant to refer to the idea that not all contact us a foul? So when you feel a nudge, just fall to the ground, let the game flow. I am pretty sure it's not meant to refer to players having their shirts ragged off them or wrestled to the ground. 

 

 

Yes, it's about not giving fouls that probably aren't fouls. So not a generous one-off gift in the hands of Taylor but simply DOING HIS FUCKING JOB!

[Barrington Womble]

3 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

Yes, it's about not giving fouls that probably aren't fouls. So not a generous one-off gift in the hands of Taylor but simply DOING HIS FUCKING JOB!

He's never been any different. He reffed our games like this his entire career. 

[DaveT]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

Anthony Taylor is an utter cunt. I've said a million times before, he refs our games in a way where it's death by a 1000 cuts. He never gives us a thing. The ruled out goal is the perfect example. Salah through on goal, clear save, corner. He gives a goal kick. They come forward from the goal kick, foul by haaland, he lets that go. Haaland moves on into the box, leaves his foot on Ali, nothing given, foden taps home. 

 

The corner was clear on TV. The VAR said both haaland challenges were fouls (according to the BBC). They basically scored from what should be our corner despite 2 fouls along the way and it would have stood and been pretty unchallenged if VAR had not intervened. 3 false decisions against us in what was probably less than 30 seconds of play, setting aside their keepers fake injury. Death by 1000 cuts. 

 

I think when we mostly get fucked by refs, it's incompetence. With Anthony Taylor he's just a fucking cheat. Manc cunt. 

 

And what's more annoying both sky and BBC have said Taylor was right to let the fouls go and have them governed by VAR. Except that's not how it's supposed to work. VAR isn't there to re-referee games, it's there to correct clear and obvious mistakes and can only intervene in goal situations. So if when haaland fouls Ali it had gone for a corner and not gone to foden and they score from the corner, we can't go back. It's fucking outrageous that he's allowed to get away with it and I hope klopp's red card highlights what a cheat Taylor is or at least gives klopp and the club the opportunity to say he can fuck off and shouldn't be near our games any more. 

Not to mention plenty of previous from this cheating cunt. His failure to send off Kompany for either of 2 clear red card counts at 0-0 effectively decided the 2018/19 title. At home to Wolves he gave handball against Lallana to rule out Mane’s goal……EVEN THOUGH HE COULDN’T POSSIBLY HAVD SEEN IT FROM HIS POSITION. VAR correctly overturned his decision. Again. 

[gkmacca]

It's one of those areas that shows how poor the pundits are. Unless something very specific is signposted as 'an issue,' they have no idea what is happening. So they hear someone say that Taylor decided to let things flow, and they acted as though this was some kind of special directive. They looked at the fouls on Fabino and Ali and started bleating, 'But Taylor was letting things flow, so why was he asked to penalise those things?' What they should have been asking was why the idiot was blatantly biased in what he chose to halt the game for. But there Micah Richards sat, with his special 'clever man' specs on, and did the ref's PR for him.

[Moo]

1 hour ago, gkmacca said:

Henry Winter in today's Times:

 

'The Kop pointed out Taylor’s Mancunian roots, yet he was born in Wythenshawe, an area more associated with City’s rivals, United'. 

 

Now, pardon me, Sherlock, but quite how that distinction is supposed to disprove the allegation that Taylor might not be entirely fair-minded about LFC is a mystery to me. 

What a stupid thing to say on every level.  And born in Wythenshawe? What, you mean that massive hospital where people from miles around go to have babies and treatment? Prick.

[Manny]

45 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

This "let the game flow" is surely meant to refer to the idea that not all contact us a foul? So when you feel a nudge, just fall to the ground, let the game flow. I am pretty sure it's not meant to refer to players having their shirts ragged off them or wrestled to the ground. 

 

 

Jonathan Wilson absolutely shuts this down in his column this morning:

 

Quote

The line parroted by a number of City players was that Anthony Taylor had let a lot go. He had pursued this season’s Premier League guidelines on encouraging a more robust style of football, allowing moments of contact. Why then, in this instance, make an exception? Why not allow this contact?

 

To which there are two obvious responses. First, that to allow some contact is not allow all contact and that, given the way VAR is employed, a stricter interpretation is always likely in the immediate buildup to a goal. And second, that a pull on the shirt is not a shoulder-to-shoulder challenge, it’s not two players grappling for the ball, it’s not a slight brush of the leg as a tackle comes in. A shirt pull is never a legitimate way of winning the ball and, more than that, it shows up very clearly on video.

 

Erling Haaland grabbed Fabinho’s shirt and that is a foul. It doesn’t matter that Fabinho may have been toppling anyway. It doesn’t matter that Taylor’s view was obscured. It doesn’t matter that sometimes you’ll get away with that sort of thing. It was a foul – and so, the officials later said, was the subsequent Haaland challenge on Alisson: even had the pull on Fabinho not been penalised, the goal would have been ruled out. And amid all the City hysteria, it’s perhaps worth pointing out that the whole move began with a goal-kick that should have been a Liverpool corner.

Shirt pulling is black and white. If you get away with it it's probably because of an advantage or because the referee hasn't quite seen it. Expecting to get away with it because the ref has waved play on a few times is just entitled lunacy.

[Barrington Womble]

44 minutes ago, DaveT said:

Not to mention plenty of previous from this cheating cunt. His failure to send off Kompany for either of 2 clear red card counts at 0-0 effectively decided the 2018/19 title. At home to Wolves he gave handball against Lallana to rule out Mane’s goal……EVEN THOUGH HE COULDN’T POSSIBLY HAVD SEEN IT FROM HIS POSITION. VAR correctly overturned his decision. Again. 

That handball he couldn't have possibly seen from any position he had on the pitch, because it didn't happen. He's just a cheat. 

[mike23]

I think we ended up having 3 players booked whilst they didn't have any. He was booking our players for challenges he wasn't even giving as fouls the other way. He wasn't letting the game flow, he was showing a clear bias to 1 team throughout the game. The pundits were talking so much nonsense about the disallowed goal afterwards that I just had to turn over. Trying to make out that it only looked a foul because it was slowed down. It looked absolutely blatant even in real time, and it was 1 of at least 3 clear fouls that weren't given during the game. The 2 that weren't given on Mo have got to be 2 of the worst decisions I've ever seen. The first one again could easily have led to a goal (or as others have said, a corner that may have then led to a goal with no recourse for then going back to disallow it). It's staggering that some people in the media have actually praised Taylor for his performance yesterday. No wonder the standards are so low if refs are being praised rather than being called out for displays like that.

 

There was a moment near the end as well that also really did my head in. He waved play on after a City foul near the touchline because we still had the ball. However, as the foul had completely taken out one of our players it left our player on the ball with absolutely no support up against a crowd of City players, and it ended up going out for a City throw in. It showed an absolutely staggering lack of common sense to wave play on in that situation and we ended up losing the ball so quickly afterwards that he even could have gone back and given the freekick. 

[Code]

3 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

The way they ignore fouls on Salah absolutely reeks to me. They are not looking at the fouls they are judging Salah and they are biased against him, all the stats and just watching the fucking fouls prove this. The clubs website should do a full video on the fouls against Salah that haven't been penalised. Then another page donating money to the fight against islamaphobia that's completely unrelated of course.

Completely agree, this needs to be done.

 

Just for dramatic effect someone could also make a video of all the soft or non existent fouls a player like for example Kane gets during a season. 

[Carra_is_legend]

Klopp should talk about Salah being man handled every single time there is an opportunity to do so. 

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

9 hours ago, gkmacca said:

What they all miss from this 'let the game flow' issue is that ALL refs are SUPPOSED to 'let the game flow'. It's not supposed to be some personal whim introduced for certain games! 

 

But 'letting the game flow' and ignoring all fouls are separate matters. A ref has to penalise clear fouls. That's why they're called fouls. That's why they're refs. He or she can decide not to whistle just to have a chat, or intervene when a decision might be deemed marginal, etc etc. But they're not supposed to just decide to ignore all the rules.

 

A ref has no right whatsoever to justify ignoring a foul because he or she had resolved to 'let the game flow'. If that's what letting a game flow means, then clearly you don't need a ref!!

Good post. 
 

If this is what letting the game flow means we should just have put Nunez on from the start and let him beat the shit out of them.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

5 hours ago, Carra_is_legend said:

Klopp should talk about Salah being man handled every single time there is an opportunity to do so. 

The amount of free kicks Salah gets compared to other forwards clearly indicates something is really wrong. When you compare it to the English forwards you can really feel the bad smell of it.