Coronavirus

[Mudface]

Just now, TK421 said:

Has to be worth a try, though.  There are studies linking vitamin D deficiency with severe coronavirus cases and it's such an easy/cheap fix for a lot of people.  I'm taking one vitamin D pill every day, I don't see why not seeing as I'm couped up inside for most of the day. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52371688

 Yep, I've been taking one for a while- we moved up to Scotland a few years back.

[Pureblood]

2 minutes ago, Mudface said:

 Yep, I've been taking one for a while- we moved up to Scotland a few years back.

Och, follow the science. 

[SasaS]

It's fairly obvious that covid-19 is a racist virus, and this must be addressed.

I really don't get why would all non-white BAME groups be affected by a virus differently to whites, beyond socio-economic factors, and how did they calculate that a particular ethnic group is more likely to die when it is difficult to find even the basic data on deaths in the UK breakdown. They never give you the methodology, is it from the people admitted to ICU, or hospitalized, how do they know what is every person's socioeconomic background?  

Also confusing is what is society supposed to do with that information?  Blame NHS for racism? Protect vulnerable groups?  Everywhere else around Europe 96% of all deaths are people over 70 years of age, they are all considered vulnerable anyway, male, female, white, black.

[Mudface]

1 minute ago, SasaS said:

It's fairly obvious that covid-19 is a racist virus, and this must be addressed.

I really don't get why would all non-white BAME groups be affected by a virus differently to whites, beyond socio-economic factors, and how did they calculate that a particular ethnic group is more likely to die when it is difficult to find even the basic data on deaths in the UK breakdown. They never give you the methodology, is it from the people admitted to ICU, or hospitalized, how do they know what is every person's socioeconomic background?  

Also confusing is what is society supposed to do with that information?  Blame NHS for racism? Protect vulnerable groups?  Everywhere else around Europe 96% of all deaths are people over 70 years of age, they are all considered vulnerabl anyway, male, female, white, black.

The details are here- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/black-people-four-times-more-likely-to-die-from-covid-19-ons-finds

[Pureblood]

5 minutes ago, SasaS said:

It's fairly obvious that covid-19 is a racist virus, and this must be addressed.

I really don't get why would all non-white BAME groups be affected by a virus differently to whites, beyond socio-economic factors, and how did they calculate that a particular ethnic group is more likely to die when it is difficult to find even the basic data on deaths in the UK breakdown. They never give you the methodology, is it from the people admitted to ICU, or hospitalized, how do they know what is every person's socioeconomic background?  

Also confusing is what is society supposed to do with that information?  Blame NHS for racism? Protect vulnerable groups?  Everywhere else around Europe 96% of all deaths are people over 70 years of age, they are all considered vulnerabl anyway, male, female, white, black.

Fuck it, just let them die I say.  No point doing studies into it or finding out more, eh?  It's their fault for being poor and non-white. 

[Section_31]

4 minutes ago, Mudface said:

The details are here- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/black-people-four-times-more-likely-to-die-from-covid-19-ons-finds

Mad that. There are some genetic health differences though aren't there between blacks and whites, sickle cell for instance - wonder if it could be related? 

[Mudface]

4 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Mad that. There are some genetic health differences though aren't there between blacks and whites, sickle cell for instance - wonder if it could be related? 

Could be, yes. It's annoying that they're still not addressing the fact that men are about 1.7 times more likely to die from CV-19 as women though, which very probably is genetically related (2 X chromosomes rather than XY). It's a good idea to warn particularly susceptible groups so they can take extra care, but that doesn't seem to be extended to men.

[Grinch]

It's easy to believe in some so called conspiracy theories when you see how blatant the UK government lie and get away with it, on a daily basis 

[Bobby Hundreds]

10 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Could be, yes. It's annoying that they're still not addressing the fact that men are about 1.7 times more likely to die from CV-19 as women though, which very probably is genetically related (2 X chromosomes rather than XY). It's a good idea to warn particularly susceptible groups so they can take extra care, but that doesn't seem to be extended to men.

Maybe it's big bollocks. Old men have big bollocks and black guys jeez. Hmm what are the Chinese figures.

[SasaS]

26 minutes ago, Mudface said:

The details are here- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/black-people-four-times-more-likely-to-die-from-covid-19-ons-finds

No they are not. It's just an article with graphs claiming twice more likely or this or that, without any data or methodology.

[Captain Turdseye]

21 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Mad that. There are some genetic health differences though aren't there between blacks and whites, sickle cell for instance - wonder if it could be related? 

Could it be because the more densely populated areas, London and New York for example, have more ethnically diverse populations?

[Mudface]

1 minute ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Could it be because the more densely populated areas, London and New York for example, have more ethnically diverse populations?

The authors say they've tried to account for that, and there's still a big difference.

[Mudface]

6 minutes ago, SasaS said:

No they are not. It's just an article with graphs claiming twice more likely or this or that, without any data or methodology.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/coronavirusrelateddeathsbyethnicgroupenglandandwales/2march2020to10april2020

[Pureblood]

3 minutes ago, Mudface said:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/coronavirusrelateddeathsbyethnicgroupenglandandwales/2march2020to10april2020

Fake stats. SasaS knows best. 

[SasaS]

25 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Fuck it, just let them die I say.  No point doing studies into it or finding out more, eh?  It's their fault for being poor and non-white. 

 

They still don't know if masks help or not, they still don't know the basic risk or ways of transmission, they are not sure if small children are spreading it or not, they don't know why are some countries or areas hit so hard while others are not, they don't know if any of the drugs they have been using help or not, they don't know if ventilators help, or make things worse. There is still have a lot of people (experts) not entirely convinced the virus is actually natural, thy don't know how many strains there are or if the virus has significantly mutated. They don't know when exactly did all of this begin. They don't know if you have to distance 1 meter, 1.5 or 2 meters.

They don't know how many people in the UK died in care homes and at home. They don't know why are people still being infected in great numbers in care homes all around Europe despite all the precautions.

 

Essentially, they don't know anything. Except how to strip socioeconomic factors from an unknown  number of dead people to show that some ethnic groups are more at risk. That they are pretty certain about.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, skend04 said:

Yeah, I've been on them for a couple of years now. That age 40 well man test showed up a slightly iffy liver and vitamin D deficiency, which are apparently linked. So I take a supplement every day now.

If it's vitamin d3 you're golden.

[Pureblood]

6 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

They still don't know if masks help or not, they still don't know the basic risk or ways of transmission, they are not sure if small children are spreading it or not, they don't know why are some countries or areas hit so hard while others are not, they don't know if any of the drugs they have been using help or not, they don't know if ventilators help, or make things worse. There is still have a lot of people (experts) not entirely convinced the virus is actually natural, thy don't know how many strains there are or if the virus has significantly mutated. They don't know when exactly did all of this begin. They don't know if you have to distance 1 meter, 1.5 or 2 meters.

They don't know how many people in the UK died in care homes and at home. They don't know why are people still being infected in great numbers in care homes all around Europe despite all the precautions.

 

Essentially, they don't know anything. Except how to strip socioeconomic factors from an unknown  number of dead people to show that some ethnic groups are more at risk. That they are pretty certain about.

What a bizzare post. 

 

As David Lammy says, if it's true that BAME people are dying more then we have a duty to find out why.

 

Your callous and dismissive attitude on this point is stomach churning. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by TK421

[Mudface]

7 minutes ago, TK421 said:

What a bizzare post. 

 

As David Lammy says, if it's true that BAME people are dying more then we have a duty to find out why.

 

Your callous and dismissive attitude on this point is stomach churning. 

Quite. And if it is caused by something that is more prevalent in certain groups, then finding what it is will benefit everyone. 

[TheHowieLama]

GET THE GENE LEAKED!!

[Bobby Hundreds]

Don't know if it's been posted, sums up why and where we are.

 

https://appeasement.org

[Guest]

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/bame-covid-19-deaths-what-do-we-know-rapid-data-evidence-review/

 

Abdul Razaq¹, Dominic Harrison², Sakthi Karunanithi³, Ben Barr⁴, Miqdad Asaria⁵, Ash Routen⁶, Kamlesh Khunti⁷

1. Consultant in Public Health, Lancashire County Council, Visiting Senior Fellow, University of Suffolk
2. Director of Public Health, Blackburn with Darwen Council, Visiting Professor University of Central Lancashire (UCLAN)
3. Director of Public Health, Lancashire County Council
4. Professor in Applied Public Health Research, University of Liverpool
5. Assistant Professorial Research Fellow, London School of Economics
6. Research Associate, University of Leicester
7. Professor in Primary Care Diabetes & Vascular Medicine, University of Leicester

On behalf of the Oxford COVID-19 Evidence Service Team
Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, Nuffield Department of Primary Care Health Sciences
University of Oxford

Editorial input from Professor Trisha Greenhalgh

Correspondence to Abdul.Razaq@lancashire.gov.uk

PDF to Download

---

 

VERDICT
Evidence indicates markedly higher mortality risk from COVID-19 among Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) groups, but deaths are not consistent across BAME groups. Similarly, adverse outcomes are seen for BAME patients in intensive care units and amongst medical staff and Health and Care Workers. The exact reasons for this increased risk and vulnerability from COVID-19 in BAME populations are not known. There may be a number of contributing factors in the general population such as overrepresentation of BAME populations in lower socio-economic groups, multi-family and multi-generational households, co-morbidity exposure risks, and disproportionate employment in lower band key worker roles. For Health and Care workers, there are increased health and care setting exposure risks.

 

BACKGROUND
The UK has a large and diverse Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic community (BAME), which account for around 14% of the population in England and Wales. Worryingly there is early evidence of an association between ethnicity and COVID-19 incidence and adverse health outcomes. For example, observational data from the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre, show a third of COVID-19 patients admitted to critical care units are from BAME groups. There are also concerns that healthcare and other key workers who belong to BAME groups are particularly at risk.

With data on COVID-19 in BAME populations emerging daily, this rapid review aimed to evaluate the evidence on plausible associations between ethnicity and COVID-19 incidence and adverse health outcomes in the general population and people working in health and social care.

METHOD
An ongoing Google Scholar literature search has been conducted since the COVID-19 outbreak began, and this has been updated through publications on MedRxiv preprint and social media.

EMERGING EVIDENCE

BAME Deaths by Ethnicity in England

Analysis of hospital death data in England by the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) show deaths per capita are not consistent across BAME groups, and they are markedly greater in Black Carribean and Black Other groups compared to all other ethnicities (except ‘Other ethnic group’). For example, per capita, Black Carribean deaths are over twice those of Bangladeshi and Pakistani populations. It is important to note that compared to the White British population per capita deaths are markedly greater in Indian, Other Black, Black Carribbean and Other Ethnic group (see the figure below, but note these data are not adjusted for potential explanatory factors such as age, geography, occupational exposure etc.).

Analysis of NHS England hospital death data shows excess deaths vary by BAME group (See table below, final column on right). Excess deaths (observed vs. expected) are around 1.5 times higher than expected for the Indian population, 2.8 times higher for the Pakistani population, and 3 times higher in Bangladeshis. Excess deaths are 4.3 times higher for the Black African population, 2.5 times for the Black Caribbean population, and 7.3 times higher for Black Other Background individuals. Excess deaths are 1.6 times higher for the Mixed Any Other Background population.

Using NHS England and ONS data, Statista compared the number of COVID-19 deaths in BAME groups compared to their proportion of the country’s total population. This brief analysis shows there have been 801 deaths in the Black ethnic group as of April 17, accounting for 5.8% of COVID-19 deaths. Given this ethnic group accounts for 3.5% of the total population in England, the share of deaths in Black individuals is 66% higher than this groups proportion of the total population. The number of Asian deaths is similar to their share of the total population.

Further analysis of hospital death data in England and Wales by the IFS has attempted to adjust for the greater occurrence of COVID-19 cases in urban areas with high BAME density (e.g. London and Birmingham), and the majority of BAME groups being on average younger than White British populations. The IFS report details predicted number of hospital deaths by ethnic group if geography (region of residence) and demographic (age and sex) factors were the only relevant determinants of increased COVID-19 deaths in BAME groups.

By comparing the ratio of predicted deaths to actual hospital deaths, an estimate of excess death beyond those that can be explained by demographics and geography can be calculated. The ratio varies across BAME groups, from 1.8 for Black Caribbeans, to 2.9 for Pakistanis and 3.7 for Black Africans (See the difference between dark green and yellow bars in the figure below. Note data in the graph are presented relative to White British populations).

BAME Patient Characteristics and Patient Outcome in Intensive Care Units (ICU)
The first indication of an association between BAME and COVID-19 came from data presented by the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre (ICNARC), which focused on patients critically ill with confirmed COVID-19 reported to ICNARC up to 23 April 2020.

Concerning BAME patient characteristics, these data show that 34% of BAME patients with confirmed COVID-19 are admitted to ICU as compared to 12% for viral pneumonia. There is a clear social gradient for patients with confirmed COVID-19 admitted to ICU, with the most deprived nearly twice as likely than the least deprived by Index of Multiple Deprivation (IMD) quintile.

On outcomes, approximately half of BAME patients with COVID-19 were discharged alive from ICU. Asian patients with COVID-19 were 3 times more likely to die in ICU than patients with viral pneumonia. Mixed ethnicity patients with COVID-19 were 2 times more likely to die in ICU than patients with viral pneumonia. Black ethnicity patients with COVID-19 were 4 times more likely to die in ICU than patients with viral pneumonia. Other ethnicity patients with COVID-19 were 2.5 times more likely to die in ICU than patients with viral pneumonia.

Forty percent of Asian, Black and Other BAME patients required renal support in ICU, and there is a clear social gradient with those in IMD quintile 5 (most deprived) nearly twice as likely to require renal support as IMD quintile 1 (least deprived).

The pattern of ICU outcomes by ethnic group broadly reflect the pattern of overall COVID-19 mortality by ethnic groups, suggesting that ICU deaths follow the overall death risk pattern for BAME communities.

BAME Health and Care Worker Deaths
Data published in the Health Service Journal detail the disproportionately high rate of BAME individuals among Health and Care Workers who have died from COVID-19. Among all staff employed by the NHS, BAME groups account for approximately 21%, including roughly 20% among nursing and support staff and 44% among medical staff (i.e doctors and dentists). Initial analysis of health and care worker BAME COVID-19 deaths suggest they account for 63%, 64% and 95% of overall deaths in the aforementioned staff groups respectively.

International Evidence
In the United States the latest available COVID-19 mortality rate for Black Americans is 2.4 times higher than the rate for Latino populations, 2.5 times higher than Asian individuals, and 2.7 times higher than White populations. For every 100,000 Americans (of their respective groups), around 26 Black individuals have died, along with 11 Latino, 10 Asian and 9 White.

CONCLUSIONS
There is early observational evidence to suggest that COVID-19 hospital deaths among the general population in England are greater in BAME groups compared to White British groups. In addition the number of deaths is not consistent across BAME groups, with per capita deaths and excess deaths highest among Black populations. There is also international evidence from the US to show non-uniform COVID-19 deaths across BAME groups.

Data on Health and Care Worker deaths show disproportionately high deaths in BAME populations, with the greatest number occurring in medical staff when compared to other staff categories.

Exact reasons for this increased risk in BAME populations are not known. There may be a number of factors that increase BAME COVID-19 risks and vulnerability in the general population, such as overrepresentation of BAME populations in lower socio-economic groups; multi-family and multi-generational households leading to increased risk of transmission due to the lockdown; co-morbidity exposure risks especially for CVD, diabetes, renal conditions and complex multi-morbidities in ICU; and there is disproportionate BAME employment in lower band key worker roles who either work in high exposure care environments or are unable to implement safe social distancing due to their roles. In addition, for Health and Care Workers, there are increased health and care setting COVID-19 exposure risks.

Disclaimer:  the article has not been peer-reviewed; it should not replace individual clinical judgement and the sources cited should be checked. The views expressed in this commentary represent the views of the authors and not necessarily those of the host institution, the NHS, the NIHR, or the Department of Health and Social Care. The views are not a substitute for professional medical advice.

AUTHORS
AR has formerly held positions as Director of Public Health for fifteen years and has extensive senior executive Public Health experience in the NHS and local government in the UK. He is currently Consultant in Public Health at Lancashire County Council and Visiting Senior Fellow, University of Suffolk. He is a member of the UK Faculty of Public Health Special Interest Group on Pakistan and is a Fellow of the UK Faculty of Public Health. KK is Director of Leicester Diabetes Centre and Director of The Centre for Black and Minority Ethnic Health (NIHR Applied Research Collaboration East Midlands) at the University of Leicester.

REFERENCES
All sources of evidence used in this review are available via the hyperlinks above.

[Captain Turdseye]

TL:DR

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Looks like the government have missed the 100k daily tests target again. 

 

I'm shocked, I tell thee! I guess it'll soon be back to it being "an ambition" rather than a target. 

[3 Stacks]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

It's fairly obvious that covid-19 is a racist virus, and this must be addressed.

I really don't get why would all non-white BAME groups be affected by a virus differently to whites, beyond socio-economic factors, and how did they calculate that a particular ethnic group is more likely to die when it is difficult to find even the basic data on deaths in the UK breakdown. They never give you the methodology, is it from the people admitted to ICU, or hospitalized, how do they know what is every person's socioeconomic background?  

Also confusing is what is society supposed to do with that information?  Blame NHS for racism? Protect vulnerable groups?  Everywhere else around Europe 96% of all deaths are people over 70 years of age, they are all considered vulnerable anyway, male, female, white, black.

It's very easy to link socio-economic disadvantages to poorer health, what are you talking about?

 

Very simple; if you're black for example, you're more likely to be poor because of a systemic disadvantage in society, therefore you can't consistently afford food that is properly nutritious, therefore you're more likely to be obese and generally in poor health, therefore you're more likely to die from this virus. 

 

There might be a genetic issue there too, but this is simple shit. 

[SasaS]

9 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

It's very easy to link socio-economic disadvantages to poorer health, what are you talking about?

 

Very simple; if you're black for example, you're more likely to be poor because of a systemic disadvantage in society, therefore you can't consistently afford food that is properly nutritious, therefore you're more likely to be obese and generally in poor health, therefore you're more likely to die from this virus. 

 

There might be a genetic issue there too, but this is simple shit. 

Actually, what are you talking about?

I have linked socioeconomic factors specifically to the greater numbers of minority deaths where ever minorities belong to economically disadvantaged groups, in a number of posts. This seems perfectly logical to me.

What I don't see how did they manage to remove these factors so precisely from the equation, when they do not know the exact make-up of factors among the death, to prove they are still more vulnerable.

And the main issue, what is society supposed to do with this in the middle of an epidemic?  Protect the over 70s, but protect some even more?  Send even more women to the frontlines? Send more white women? What?