VAR Thoughts?

[Mook]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I never enjoyed getting perfectly good goals ruled out or conceding to players who were miles offside.

 

It needs improving, not binning.

 

No.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

39 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

No.

Yes.

[VladimirIlyich]

14 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Yes.

You still are.

[Mook]

21 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Yes.

 

You can keep it.

 

I won't pay to go and watch Football where VAR is involved and I'm amazed more people haven't done the same.

 

Actually, it's saved me a fortune & so maybe it's a good thing.

[Red Shift]

On 16/09/2022 at 12:44, Evelyn Tentions said:

The rules say that a penalty should be taken without delay or a scrum is ordered. 40 seconds is a big delay.

Wallabies robbed of Bledisloe win after just that debacle.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/technically-correct-and-utterly-absurd-bledisloe-chaos-sums-up-rugby-s-refereeing-problem-20220915-p5biit.html

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Oh, how I miss the good old days!

 

[Mook]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Oh, how I miss the good old days!

 

 

Aye, you never get any dodgy decisions any more right enough.

 

*rolls eyes

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 minute ago, Mook said:

 

Aye, you never get any dodgy decisions any more right enough.

 

*rolls eyes

You get a lot fewer and the truly, obviously egregious ones are almost extinct.

[VladimirIlyich]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You get a lot fewer and the truly, obviously egregious ones are almost extinct.

You like waiting five minutes and never knowing for sure if your goal celebration was for real? It's not a game I will ever love again.

[Mook]

20 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You get a lot fewer and the truly, obviously egregious ones are almost extinct.

 

Great & meanwhile the flow of the game is completely disrupted, the people in the stands don't know what is going on & the way the offside rule is officiated has been bastardised to pander to this nonsense.

 

Count me out.

[Barrington Womble]

58 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

You get a lot fewer and the truly, obviously egregious ones are almost extinct.

I don't think that's true at all. They often stop giving decisions based on the idea if they're badly wrong, VAR will spot it..except VAR will then only get involved if it's in the mood that day. One week they seem to scrutinise everything to minute detail and desperate to find something, the next you could chop a players leg off and they'd claim it wasn't clear and obvious as the machete might have been in an offside position, but they can only check if the amputation stopped a direct goal scoring opportunity. We used to have 1 prick getting it wrong, we now just get 2 bad decision makers..

 

Plus as @VladimirIlyich points out, it's ruined goals. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, VladimirIlyich said:

You like waiting five minutes and never knowing for sure if your goal celebration was for real? It's not a game I will ever love again.

Of course not.  I said it needs improving.

 

What if the decisions were quick and correct? Would you love the game then? Or was it all the absolute Clattenburg-ups that attracted you in the first place?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

55 minutes ago, Mook said:

meanwhile the flow of the game is completely disrupted

It doesn't have to be.

[razor]

Aye, but it is, Mal.

 

You must have felt that joy immediately drain from you as you wait for the dreaded starting and stopping of a video tape where you used to jump up and down and maybe glance over at the linesman while you're thumping the air?

 

The whole "burden" of looking for reasons to rule it out mean that its whole framing is skewed.

 

Gib it off for offsides, and anything but clear errors, like the example above (which we lost 2-1 and cost us the league).

[Barnesey]

I don’t want my football to be a sterile, clinical environment where everything is managed to the finest detail. It’s a game played and officiated by human beings who make mistakes (I know, I made one myself once).
 

Attempting (and failing) to get every decision spot on adds nothing to the game and destroys the flow of the spectacle and immediacy of celebrations (and despair). If Sterling’s goal had stood there is every chance Citeh come back and win anyway. Goals change games. 
 

I’ve never been a supporter of VAR and never will be. Bin it and grow up - accept people make mistakes and embrace it as part of a fast paced, all action game. 

[Razoray]

Watch any old game on YouTube and you will see 2 or 3 incorrect offside decisions per game. VAR has improved the game but lessened the product. It is here to stay but they badly need to improve the process 

[Mook]

3 minutes ago, Razoray said:

VAR has improved the game but lessened the product.

 

I think you've got that the wrong way around.

 

Not that I'm convinced it has improved anything but it has certainly not improved the game one bit. I think you'd be hard pushed to call it the beautiful game anymore. It's a sport which has been brutalised for the benefit of TV.

[Razoray]

Just now, Mook said:

 

I think you've got that the wrong way around.

 

Not that I'm convinced it has improved anything but it has certainly not improved the game one bit. I think you'd be hard pushed to call it the beautiful game anymore. It's a sport which has been brutalised for the benefit of TV.

I meant the "integrity" of the game, because there are now less of the blatant errors.

There are still a lot of subjective calls that are pissing us off though and obviously the wait and experience at the match has been affected, especially after a goal. 

[coachpotato]

I have been of the opinion that it’s not VAR but those using it to interpret the incidents that are causing the uproar.

It should be a great tool for getting the big decisions right, however, even big decisions aren’t referred in some cases and that negates any use of VAR as an arbiter of games.

The offside and handball rules have become a standing joke because they aren’t used in the same way for each game.

One simpleton at Stockley Park will adjudge a handball where it hits someone’s hand without them knowing it was going to, another won’t.

That’s what’s ruining the use of it.

If it was removed however, would those who feel Webb and his cohorts are biased against us be any less inclined to think that?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, razor said:

Aye, but it is, Mal.

 

You must have felt that joy immediately drain from you as you wait for the dreaded starting and stopping of a video tape where you used to jump up and down and maybe glance over at the linesman while you're thumping the air?

 

The whole "burden" of looking for reasons to rule it out mean that its whole framing is skewed.

 

Gib it off for offsides, and anything but clear errors, like the example above (which we lost 2-1 and cost us the league).

Like I say, it needs improving. I've heard reports of better, quicker technology becoming available soon. Until then, there are things that can be done with the way it's used.  For example, the armpit-offsides need binning: if you need vertical lines, or you can't decide within (say) 30 seconds, then it's too close to call and the attacker should get the benefit of the doubt.

 

(It's also fair to say that the recent fannying about with the handball rules aren't the fault of VAR, although VAR gets blamed, because it's used to enforce the rules.).

 

Before VAR you'd be lucky to have a weekend without at least one obvious,  result-changing refereeing fuck-up in the Premier League. That's why people were calling for technological solutions in the first place.  What we now have is better than that.  The pause while a goal, penalty or red card is checked affects my enjoyment less than when obviously wrong decisions were allowed to stand unchallenged.

 

Nobody is saying it's perfect now. But the idea of going back to the shitshow it was before can fuck right off.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

55 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

I think you've got that the wrong way around.

 

Not that I'm convinced it has improved anything but it has certainly not improved the game one bit. I think you'd be hard pushed to call it the beautiful game anymore. It's a sport which has been brutalised for the benefit of TV.

VAR isn't for the benefit of TV.  It's for the benefit of clubs who have tens of millions of pounds riding on issues of relegation and European qualification, so they're less blasé about accepting that mistakes happen.

[Bjornebye]

VAR could have been 'ok' if they had competent people in charge of it. Of course that's not the case and it's an absolute shit show. Zero consistency. I still point to that foul on Origi in the build up to UTD's goal at old trafford when we had won every game up to then. Clear and blatant foul completely ignored and goal given. Hated it before, absolutely hate it since. 

[Jose Jones]

VAR has really highlighted how absolutely shit (especially English) refs are.

It should be a piece of piss to have VAR work well. Quick watch of a replay, if it’s an obvious mistake, then change the decision. 

I honestly absolutely believe I would be miles better at it, and so would the majority of the people on here, if given the job.

It’s mostly so shit just because refs are absurdly shit.

Once you know that though, and it’s been demonstrated over years, then you know that VAR is never going to work well, so you might as well get rid of it.

[Barrington Womble]

26 minutes ago, Razoray said:

I meant the "integrity" of the game, because there are now less of the blatant errors.

There are still a lot of subjective calls that are pissing us off though and obviously the wait and experience at the match has been affected, especially after a goal. 

But I have to disagree with that. There's become an obsession with finding these black and white decisions. Handball? Nobody even knows what it is any more and the refs themselves are just using it to find out ways to give pens or rule out goals for these handballs they can prove on TV. So gone as the element of it needs to be deliberate, which till VAR was what all offences had to be to be infringements and now it's "we can prove it's hit a hand, so let's just give something". They've tried to convince us they technically get more handballs right, but actually what they've done is made handball fucking stupid to allow VAR to rule on it. That penalty in the fa cup final being a perfect example. Technically under the VAR laws, that's handball. But it's not handball. It's a con trick to make VAR relevant. Isn't VAR supposed to stop these incorrect big moments happening in big games and not actually create them? 

 

Offside is absolutely no different. It was a rule invented to stop goal hanging, which it achieved. It was never, ever meant to be there to go microscopic, because the burden on the lino was to achieve the impossible, watch both the line and who kicked the ball at the same time - how is that anything but a gut feel. But they've taken a law that was never meant to be anything but something it became, stop goal hanging, purely because then can get involved and then lie to us and tell us it's factual and black and white. And this is despite the fact the lines are drawn by humans and the frame rate isn't sufficient to get the moment the ball leaves the foot. It is still subjective and not factual. But just more annoyingly so. And there's loads of goals that should just be goals and are ruled out. 

 

And then take pens. We hear this " if the ref hadn't given that pen, VAR wouldn't overrule". So if VAR doesn't overrule soft pens either way, why is it there? Why does it take 2 minutes to do nothing? No longer do teams need to disrupt the forward taking the pen, because the var will create a break in the game for chaos while it reviews something it's never going to turn over and the onfield refs are too weak to stop it. 

 

The whole thing is a nonsense. They've altered the interpretation of the laws of the games to fit with forcing the implementation of var, while completely destroying goals, the only thing that matters in football. 

[No2]

13 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

VAR has really highlighted how absolutely shit (especially English) refs are.

It should be a piece of piss to have VAR work well. Quick watch of a replay, if it’s an obvious mistake, then change the decision. 

I honestly absolutely believe I would be miles better at it, and so would the majority of the people on here, if given the job.

It’s mostly so shit just because refs are absurdly shit.

Once you know that though, and it’s been demonstrated over years, then you know that VAR is never going to work well, so you might as well get rid of it.

English refs done the Europa League final and what I found noticeable was the speed of the VAR decisions. They can do it when need to or want to.

 

I hate it but have accepted its here to stay, I'd like a decision within 15 seconds or move on. Only exception would be for serious foul play.