Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Bjornebye]

The mere fact that a champion of humanity and social equality is so divisive says a lot more about the state of society right now than it does him. 

 

We all know where a lot of that blame lies.... 

[moof]

55 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

Jezza's not divisive. He's done a brilliant job of uniting centrists. He needs to be allowed to finish what he started.

Yes, centrists fear the idea of a mildly socialist government more than they fear fascism, this has always been the case. 

[Strontium]

13 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

This is really boring guys. SD hates Corbyn, let him snipe... just like how I hate loads of right wing politicians like Farage, Tommy Robinson and FBPE twats like James O’Brien... I would like to be able to continue spew bile at them, without people screaming for this mythical ‘balance’. 

 

Stop telling me what my opinions are. I don't hate Corbyn and I've no intention of doing anything other than making constructive and/or funny comments in this thread.

 

This thread, in which I am such a prolific poster, that I have 5 whole posts in the first 20 pages (at which point I got bored counting), one of which is a jokey dig at my own party.

[aRdja]

1 minute ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

Stop telling me what my opinions are. I don't hate Corbyn and I've no intention of doing anything other than making constructive and/or funny comments in this thread.

 

This thread, in which I am such a prolific poster, that I have 5 whole posts in the first 20 pages (at which point I got bored counting), one of which is a jokey dig at my own party.

I wasn’t defending your right to post anything you want without people hassling you for balance.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

Stop telling me what my opinions are. I don't hate Corbyn and I've no intention of doing anything other than making constructive and/or funny comments in this thread.

 

This thread, in which I am such a prolific poster, that I have 5 whole posts in the first 20 pages (at which point I got bored counting), one of which is a jokey dig at my own party.

5 posts in 20 pages eh? The thread is on page 823 ! 

 

I am certain you have made a post in this thread somewhere that isn't either constructive or funny. In-fact I bet there are loads. I'm not going to trawl through the thread though. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

59 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

No, but there are very few who can win an election without near total support from their own party - that is before you factor in the need to get at least a few votes from outside it.

The 2017 election showed how Corbyn  - in campaign mode - can unite millions of voters. Since then, Labour is in a better starting position, in the polls and in Parliament, and has officials and an NEC who would actually try to win an election. 

 

On Brexit, the start point of every other party leader is to tell half of the electorate "fuck off, your vote doesn’t matter; I'm only listening to the other half". So why is anyone talking about Corbyn being "divisive"?

[Strontium]

Just now, viRdjil said:

I wasn’t defending your right to post anything you want without people hassling you for balance.

 

No, you were ascribing an opinion which I don't hold. I don't hate Corbyn. I don't think dislike of a person's politics needs to stray into personal hatred. People need to appreciate that.

[moof]

4 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

The suggestion is he is divisive within the Labour camp.

Mostly due to attacks from people who represent corporate interests. 

[aRdja]

2 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

No, you were ascribing an opinion which I don't hold. I don't hate Corbyn. I don't think dislike of a person's politics needs to stray into personal hatred. People need to appreciate that.

Of course I meant you hate Corbyn the politician, not the person. I thought that would’ve been obvious as none of us know him personally... But we’re digressing... don’t feel you need to hold back mate. 

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

So why is anyone talking about Corbyn being "divisive"?

Read the thread

2 minutes ago, moof said:

Mostly due to attacks from people who represent corporate interests. 

I would say posters like Ape, Paul, NV, Section etc have absolutely no ties to corporate interest - but I may be wrong.

These seem to be pretty clued up Labour supporters.

[moof]

7 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

Stop telling me what my opinions are. I don't hate Corbyn and I've no intention of doing anything other than making constructive and/or funny comments in this thread.

When are you going to get started?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Read the thread

Good swerve.

 

Let me try another tack: what should Corbyn  (or his successor) do to be less divisive?

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, AngryofTuebrook said:

Good swerve.

 

Let me try another tack: what should Corbyn  (or his successor) do to be less divisive?

It's not a swerve mate -- read the posts - as stated above these are Labour supporters asking this, not me.

I have no idea how Corbyn could instill more confidence in them. You can ask them directly as they are on here.

And as I have said previously, imo - the Democrats (Clinton being the perfect example) in the US and Labour over there cannot afford to have any divisions and win.

[Bjornebye]

35 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

No, you were ascribing an opinion which I don't hold. I don't hate Corbyn. I don't think dislike of a person's politics needs to stray into personal hatred. People need to appreciate that.

What don't you like about Corbyn's politics ? 

[moof]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

Read the thread

I would say posters like Ape, Paul, NV, Section etc have absolutely no ties to corporate interest - but I may be wrong.

These seem to be Labour supporters.

They’re reacting to circumstance, the reason he seems “divisive” is because he can’t “unite the party”. The reason he can’t “unite the party” is because he is cynically attacked by elite, corporate & establishment interests within the party, a large bloc of the PLP who represent a kind of dying politics that used to dominate shit but have seen their power exponentially reduce as the party becomes more democratised. Alongside more broad media attacks etc. 

 

He is still overwhelmingly popular amongst party members, and the policy platform is overwhelmingly popular with the wider public. We need to get away from bullshit notions of “personality politics”

[TheHowieLama]

11 minutes ago, moof said:

He is still overwhelmingly popular amongst party members, and the policy platform is overwhelmingly popular with the wider public. 

Shouldn't have any problem with a GE then

[Numero Veinticinco]

10 minutes ago, moof said:

They’re reacting to circumstance, the reason he seems “divisive” is because he can’t “unite the party”.

Just for clarity, as I was in the quoted text you replied to, I haven't said any of this and they don't have anything to do with me, my opinions, nor the giant corporate entity that feeds my opinions. 

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, Numero Veinticinco said:

Just for clarity, as I was in the quoted text you replied to, I haven't said any of this and they don't have anything to do with me, my opinions, nor the giant corporate entity that pays me a handsome monthly retainer. 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Shouldn't have any problem with a GE then

Absolutely none. Bring it the fuck on.  The Labour Party is already getting on an election footing; it's just a question of timing a winnable vote of no confidence.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

21 minutes ago, moof said:

. We need to get away from bullshit notions of “personality politics”

But.... but.... how could we sustain our "personality cult" if we did that?

[moof]

8 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Just for clarity, as I was in the quoted text you replied to, I haven't said any of this and they don't have anything to do with me, my opinions, nor the giant corporate entity that feeds my opinions. 

Just for clarity, your main aversion to Corbyn is that you just don’t like him, he’s not a leader, his position on brexit is damaging and he can’t win an election..? What else am I missing?

[Strontium]

37 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

What don't you like about Corbyn's politics ? 

 

I'm a liberal, not a hard left socialist. Shouldn't be hard to work it out.

[Jairzinho]

Thankfully the policies aren't even close to being hard left.

[Bjornebye]

10 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

I'm a liberal, not a hard left socialist. Shouldn't be hard to work it out.

Erm..... 

[Numero Veinticinco]

11 minutes ago, moof said:

Just for clarity, your main aversion to Corbyn is that you just don’t like him, he’s not a leader, his position on brexit is damaging and he can’t win an election..? What else am I missing?

 

There is no 'just don't like him' as if I'm some halfwitted idiot that just swallows and regurgitates the Murdoch media. I think you probably know me better than that by now. There are some reasons why I don't think he's a good leader and shouldn't be leader of the Labour Party, but the main and most important one is that I don't think he can win an election in order to make his agenda a reality. I want somebody, from the left or centre left, who can put in place a series of policies to make the country a better place, especially for those who need help the most. I don't think Corbyn can achieve that, regardless of whether or not I like him on a personal level or not - and he seems perfectly fine as a human being to me, but professionally I think he's pretty bad. We can, for all the good it will do, point fingers at the bad men who throw shit at him, but what will it achieve. It won't achieve the agenda being put into place. Being in power is everything if you want to get things done. Jesus himself could come down from heaven and promise to fart rainbows into our bank accounts, but if he doesn't win an election it doesn't mean a fuckin' thing. 

 

1 minute ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

I'm a liberal, not a hard left socialist. Shouldn't be hard to work it out.

Leaving aside whether or not the 'hard left' moniker is accurately attributed to him, I think it's probably fair to jump to the wild conclusion that you hate him, based off of your comments regarding antisemitism during the 'English humour' debacle, his association with terrorists, etc. If you're going to both portray him as an antisemitic terrorist associate, and yourself as a near perfect bastion of virtue, it would surely be fair to assume you dislike him because of those things. 

 

I seem to be in this strange position where the centrists or centre rights are saying I like him and defend him and the lefties say I hate him. I think I'm one of the few people with some objectivity around the guy. I just want the Tories out. You guys can argue over Corbyn all you like, I honestly am ambivalent about him as a person.