Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Numero Veinticinco]

It shouldn't, but it still surprises me that people don't actually understand the difference between what left and right are or even what the term means. Holding up the likes of Athiesm and pro-choice as proof of their non-rightist views is fucking funny, ignorant, and indicative of somebody who listens to way too many American podcasts. 

[Stickman]

14 hours ago, Nelly-Torres said:

The left are bad racists. Worse than the NF and BNP etc.

 

Bogeye Hodges said so... 

 

•  

  

  (((Dan Hodges)))

   

  @DPJHodges

   

There is no more racially divisive force in UK politics than Corbynism. It is more dangerous now than the NF or the BNP or the EDL

 

 

As is said about Everton if Dan Hodges didn't exist you'd have to invent him.

I think he's just a wind up merchant who I don't even think he believes  half the shit he writes from the minute he opens his eye his whole day is hell bent on tweeting about Corbyn, maybe he gets paid by the number of replies he gets....

 

https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/

[Mudface]

He was the same with Miliband- he's just a troll, a wannabe-Richard Littlejohn.

[Section_31]

1 hour ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

It shouldn't, but it still surprises me that people don't actually understand the difference between what left and right are or even what the term means. Holding up the likes of Athiesm and pro-choice as proof of their non-rightist views is fucking funny, ignorant, and indicative of somebody who listens to way too many American podcasts. 

I don't think the concepts of left and right exist the way they used to.

 

Someone like May, Thatcher etc can genuinely be called right but in the sense that they believed in hang'em and flog'em politics and free markets with a general disdain for the concept of public ownership, or that the public sector was generally bloated and wasteful.

 

But they had genuine respect and even reverence for what they felt were great British institutions. The union itself, the monarchy, the class system, Oxbridge, Cornish ice cream, the Chelsea flower show, Spitfires etc.

 

The new breed though, the Osbornes and the Johnsons only care about money and aggrandizing themselves through extremely wealthy connections. They're the servants of oligarchy, just like in the States.

 

They exist to disrupt and destroy all the things that belonged to the state so they can be sold off. 

 

If you look at what's happened with free schools, the probation service etc. It was done under the guise of ideology but the whole point was to put public money in private pockets even if the thing itself ceased to function and even if they're eventually brought in house again, it doesn't matter. Money has been made. 

 

The new left and right is on the one hand, the people who engage in the above behaviour or those that are too thick, lazy or possessed of some kind of weird Stockholm syndrome to have a problem with it, and on the other hand there's everybody else who is in some way suffering because of it and does give a toss. Literally, the many and the few.

 

The problem is most of the media fall into the first camp, and whether we like it of not they still frame the message.

 

[Captain Howdy]

I think you’re being kind to Thatcher there, she created the politics and idealism ( or rather implemented them, Keith Joseph was the main architect)  of which Cameron and Osborne were simply a natural progression, so many of today’s problems lead directly back to Thatcher/Joseph imo

[Babb'sBurstNad]

The terms left and right have always been pretty ham-fisted labels for indicating political beliefs. Like it's a binary choice, a place at either end of a linear political landscape.

 

Almost no one will fit the purest of criteria, as dictated by those at the extremes. You can clearly be racist and left wing, or right wing but believe in gay rights. They're nothing but general terms, showing a leaning. They've always been poor at indicating the array of beliefs an individual will have, hence the trouble winning the working class white vote, which is fertile ground for both economically left leaning, as well as the socially conservative.

[Jairzinho]

Yes, look at conservatives like Peter Hitchens, Peter Oborne, etc. They basically the complete opposite of the current rabble. Anti-war, pro investing in public institutions, less interested in or actively against "progressive" social policies. 

 

The BBC often says that because it has complaints from the left and the right that they must be balanced, while really they have complaints from people with left wing economic views and people with right wing social views (sometimes the same people).

[Captain Howdy]

I don’t think Hitchens identifies as a Conservative anymore, could be wrong on that though, I’ve never minded one nation Conservatives, I mean I wouldn’t vote for them but I have no problem with them. Is Rod Liddle Tory? He’s certainly right wing as I understand the term

[Jairzinho]

15 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

I don’t think Hitchens identifies as a Conservative anymore, could be wrong on that though, I’ve never minded one nation Conservatives, I mean I wouldn’t vote for them but I have no problem with them. Is Rod Liddle Tory? He’s certainly right wing as I understand the term

I meant small c conservative. The ideology, not the party. He despises the party and hopes it ceases to exist. Because they aren't conservatives.

[Section_31]

1 hour ago, Captain Howdy said:

I think you’re being kind to Thatcher there, she created the politics and idealism ( or rather implemented them, Keith Joseph was the main architect)  of which Cameron and Osborne were simply a natural progression, so many of today’s problems lead directly back to Thatcher/Joseph imo

True but I think (she thought) she was genuinely a patriot. I don't think the Camerons, Osbornes and Johnsons have any pretentions to be, in fact they probably think the whole concept is pretty pathetic.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Rod Liddle's just a cunt, but I have doubts whether even he believes his reactionary spiel. 

[Captain Howdy]

4 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Rod Liddle's just a cunt, but I have doubts whether even he believes his reactionary spiel. 

Yeah I think he could be part act 

[Boss]

4 hours ago, Section_31 said:

True but I think (she thought) she was genuinely a patriot. I don't think the Camerons, Osbornes and Johnsons have any pretentions to be, in fact they probably think the whole concept is pretty pathetic.

A patriot implies more than standing for Queen and Country. It implies you care about the prosperity of the working classes as well as the upper classes. Thatcherism was about blaming all the economic troubles in society on the welfare state and general Keynesian policies like the NHS and post war spending on council houses. You can't wage war on the majority of society and be deemed patriotic. She was the opposite of a patriot. 

 

I understand what you're saying though, you're saying *she thought* she was a patriot. I'd rather a cunt know they are a cunt though. I think the delusion of righteousness is more dangerous.

[Bjornebye]

4 hours ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Rod Liddle's just a cunt, but I have doubts whether even he believes his reactionary spiel. 

Sure we are talking about Rod Liddle here? 

[Section_31]

51 minutes ago, Boss said:

A patriot implies more than standing for Queen and Country. It implies you care about the prosperity of the working classes as well as the upper classes. Thatcherism was about blaming all the economic troubles in society on the welfare state and general Keynesian policies like the NHS and post war spending on council houses. You can't wage war on the majority of society and be deemed patriotic. She was the opposite of a patriot. 

 

I understand what you're saying though, you're saying *she thought* she was a patriot. I'd rather a cunt know they are a cunt though. I think the delusion of righteousness is more dangerous.

I don't think patriotism does include those things, our version of it does, but not the accepted one.

 

Few would argue for example that Churchill and Reagan weren't patriots, but neither had any time for the folks at the bottom.

[Boss]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

I don't think patriotism does include those things, our version of it does, but not the accepted one.

 

Few would argue for example that Churchill and Reagan weren't patriots, but neither had any time for the folks at the bottom.

 

A Fair point well made.

[aRdja]

 

Jeremy Corbyn hates black people now according to the right. 

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, viRdjil said:

 

Jeremy Corbyn hates black people now according to the right. 

According to this idiot.  He doesn’t speak for  anyone. 

[Anubis]

Will just leave it to Dan’s mum, Glenda, in her interview with The Daily Beast in 2018.

 

 

Quote

As for the anti-Semitism row currently roiling Labour, Jackson said, “Jeremy Corbyn is not a racist, and I don’t believe he is anti-Semitic. What he is is pro-Palestinian. That presumably is where the conflict comes from, and whatever has been misread and misinterpreted.”

 

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

 

Car crash interview.

 

How the fuck is any leave or remainer voter nevermind anyone with a party affiliation watching this be inspired to vote for Labour?

[Pidge]

Not sure, more of a car crash interviewer.  There's a pretty obvious point that they'd campaign in favour of remaining rather than no deal, or (probably) any Boris deal.  But, if Labour are in power and they negotiate their own deal then they'd probably lobby for that...  BUT, there'd still be a vote - so the public would still have a say. 

 

It's not that difficult, instead of complaining of a headache and waffling about leadership (despite his views being a matter of public record at this point - and clearly stated again there) the interviewer could have asked what the options on the vote would be in that scenario, or if they'd whip MPs to campaign the same way.

[A Red]

33 minutes ago, 1892-LFCWasBorn said:

 

Car crash interview.

 

How the fuck is any leave or remainer voter nevermind anyone with a party affiliation watching this be inspired to vote for Labour?

He looks like he has 2 bodies that have been poorly welded together with no thought to where the head should be.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

33 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Not sure, more of a car crash interviewer.  There's a pretty obvious point that they'd campaign in favour of remaining rather than no deal, or (probably) any Boris deal.  But, if Labour are in power and they negotiate their own deal then they'd probably lobby for that...  BUT, there'd still be a vote - so the public would still have a say. 

 

It's not that difficult, instead of complaining of a headache and waffling about leadership (despite his views being a matter of public record at this point - and clearly stated again there) the interviewer could have asked what the options on the vote would be in that scenario, or if they'd whip MPs to campaign the same way.

Why not just come out and say they'd remain rather than wait for the possibility of a no deal before taking that stance? They have no fucking idea the damage this has done with public opinion and trust.

 

At least that way they're consolidating any younger core voters they have on their side and will immediately attract any remainers that could potentially switch because of their Brexit stance.

 

This is essentially the problem with Labour. They've had no fucking stance since the referendum. They are far too passive most of the time. They are always a laughing joke on Question Time whenever I've watched it with the panel and audience because of this.

 

They've got fuck all chance of getting into power with Corbyn as leader.

 

They've royally fucked up in the past decade with one of the worst Conservative goverments in living history. They are an absolute joke at the moment.

[Pureblood]

46 minutes ago, A Red said:

He looks like he has 2 bodies that have been poorly welded together with no thought to where the head should be.

Aye, he looks a bit shifty and might tax your business 'til it bleeds.  You should vote for the other lot.

[Pureblood]

28 minutes ago, 1892-LFCWasBorn said:

Why not just come out and say they'd remain rather than wait for the possibility of a no deal before taking that stance? They have no fucking idea the damage this has done with public opinion and trust.

 

At least that way they're consolidating any younger core voters they have on their side and will immediately attract any remainers that could potentially switch because of their Brexit stance.

 

This is essentially the problem with Labour. They've had no fucking stance since the referendum. They are far too passive most of the time. They are always a laughing joke on Question Time whenever I've watched it with the panel and audience because of this.

 

They've got fuck all chance of getting into power with Corbyn as leader.

 

They've royally fucked up in the past decade with one of the worst Conservative goverments in living history. They are an absolute joke at the moment.

They do have a stance but it doesn't fit into a neat little three word slogan.