Labour Leadership Contest

[Stu Monty]

You blocked it no more than Labour did, as they also didn't vote for it. Fact.

 

You definitely voted through Tory legislation that wouldn't have managed to become law without it though. Also, fact.

 

You seem to think that backing loads of grim policy means you're a fucking hero when you then decide not to occasionally.

 

You spent four years very much holding your tongue on the "nasty party" as did your party. Four years of "but Labour". So take pride in giving the Tories the space to carve out a majority. Bathe in it. Soak it in with every new cunty policy.

 

The lie is to just pretend that the tone of mutual responsibility you were so happy with and the tone of attacking Tory nastiness in the run up to the election were not contrasting. A lie you for some reason want to try and sell to people who see through it as a fantasy, and the seller therefore as a fantasist.

 

You understand the second bit fine too, becuase you're not thick as pig shit. You just pretend to be to avoid admitting flaws in your positions.

[Strontium]

People can read what I wrote in 2010, and contrast it with what I wrote in 2015, and they'll see the absolute model of consistency. The fact that not one person has been able to point to anything even remotely contradictory is proof enough of that, The fantasist is the person who believes something in spite of the evidence, not something that is wholly consistent with it.

 

A Tory majority? The only question was would it be in 2011, after less than 12 months of deeply unsatisfactory minority government, or 2015, after a coalition government that enabled the Tory right to be sidelined and a more progressive path to be forged. Because make no mistake, Labour have been thoroughly unelectable at every point over the past five years, and will doubtless continue to be so for the next five.

[dennis tooth]

People can read what I wrote in 2010, and contrast it with what I wrote in 2015, and they'll see the absolute model of consistency. The fact that not one person has been able to point to anything even remotely contradictory is proof enough of that, The fantasist is the person who believes something in spite of the evidence, not something that is wholly consistent with it.

 

A Tory majority? The only question was would it be in 2011, after less than 12 months of deeply unsatisfactory minority government, or 2015, after a coalition government that enabled the Tory right to be sidelined and a more progressive path to be forged. Because make no mistake, Labour have been thoroughly unelectable at every point over the past five years, and will doubtless continue to be so for the next five.

Says the man who built his house on the fortunes of the lib dem party.

[dennis tooth]

I'm not sure, but I meant in general. I'd say more people would vote for Cooper than the others.

I don't know what I'd do. I'm just tired of it all.

Ed milliband sandwich hangover.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

A Tory majority? The only question was would it be in 2011, after less than 12 months of deeply unsatisfactory minority government, or 2015, after a coalition government that enabled the Tory right to be sidelined and a more progressive path to be forged. Because make no mistake, Labour have been thoroughly unelectable at every point over the past five years, and will doubtless continue to be so for the next five.

Serious question, why do you think that is?

 

I'm inclined to agree that Labour were unelectable, inasmuch as Labour never even tried to challenge the founding lies of austerity (that Labour in Government were profligate, that the debt had reached crisis proportions and that cuts and privatisation would reduce the debt) and they never offered people anything to vote for (they seemed, instead, content to wait for people to get so sick of the Tories and their pets that they would vote against them and get a Labour Government by default).

[lifetime fan]

That's exactly what happened mate. Even their election strategy was based on gaining 35% of the vote.

 

They were pathetically unambitious.

[dennis tooth]

Austerity is written by the agents of goldman sachs, the world bank etc these advisors are the same authors of the same policies both tory and labour signed upto. Thats why they didnt get elected, they both want to reduce the state to a quarter of its powers, only maintaining the last quarter because its to allow continual plunder of the public purse, so people see nothing to go vote for.

[clangers]

Surprised why anyone doesn't understand why Labour didn't win? They haven't won an election from the left in over 40 years. The only time they have won was under Blair who moved them far enough to right to make a large enough portion of the electorate feel comfortable but they ceased to be the Labour party in the process.

 

Personally I think they're out for a generation just as the Tories were. I don't see either of the eventual winners, Burnham or Cooper changing that. 

 

As far as austerity is concerned it's the last flush of the elite to milk last drop before the system collapses anyway. We deregulated the markets and allowed massive debt multipliers to occur in a fractional debt based economic model. The result is that we can only really keep the current economic system on life support by printing money, socialising debt for the rich, massive austerity for the rest of us and running with near zero interest rates. The banks remain technically insolvent and it will only take a small nudge, Greece perhaps, for it all to collapse again.

[Stu Monty]

People can read what I wrote in 2010, and contrast it with what I wrote in 2015, and they'll see the absolute model of consistency. The fact that not one person has been able to point to anything even remotely contradictory is proof enough of that, The fantasist is the person who believes something in spite of the evidence, not something that is wholly consistent with it.

 

A Tory majority? The only question was would it be in 2011, after less than 12 months of deeply unsatisfactory minority government, or 2015, after a coalition government that enabled the Tory right to be sidelined and a more progressive path to be forged. Because make no mistake, Labour have been thoroughly unelectable at every point over the past five years, and will doubtless continue to be so for the next five.

 

I love how you just keep pretending (to people who know otherwise) that you, and your party (you deliberately avoided that one as it's much harder to duck, dive and move the goalposts on that) gave the tories an easy ride for four years then decided to start being more honest about them when there was an election in the offing. The only difference being not in who they are and what they want but the self-interest of the Liberal Democrats.

 

Your guesses on what might have happened are not facts. What actually happened - you voting for Tory policies and giving them the breathing space to forge this majority - are facts.

 

You've got four seats because intelligent and informed Liberal people (many that care very much about liberty, not one particular party) decided that they were sick of your "but Labour" shit during the most ideologically cruel government in living memory and rejected you. It's almost pitiful that you still don't seem to have come to terms with that fact. I'd venture the Lib Dems probably had the brightest demograpghic make up in their support - and they had a fucking exodus.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Monty cutting like a knife. I think that's a fair point. Did stupid people vote for LD in 2010, or did they just become stupid in 2015?

[lifetime fan]

Fucking rotate.

 

 

Liz Kendall said she was neither a Blairite nor Brownite candidate.

"I'm the Kendallite candidate".

[Section_31]

Kendall bint cake

[dennis tooth]

Monty cutting like a knife. I think that's a fair point. Did stupid people vote for LD in 2010, or did they just become stupid in 2015?

Odd he said I call people stupid hes done nothing but that since the tories got their majority, just because his bum ass team didnt win, everyone must be stupid not to find appeal in handing over the economy to a man troubled by a sandwich with all the charisma and authority of a school supply teacher named mr bumhole who just wrote his name on the blackboard and asked the class not to make fun of him.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Membership card just arrived.  So, for the first time ever, I'm in!  It feels weird, like I'm going undercover to investigate a cult.  

 

I had to think long and hard about this, because it felt wrong, at first, to be joining explicitly to vote for someone.  It felt a bit like ballot-stuffing (or like one of those internet polls that gets hijacked by fans of a rival sports team, who all agree to vote for a joke).  Then I considered the reason why I've never joined the Labour Party; it's largely because the labour leadership, for almost all of my adult life, have devoted their energies to distancing themselves from the labour movement and waving their arses to the corporate parasites and the right-wing media.  

 

There's probably next to no chance Corbyn can get elected, but if enough people vote for him (especially if they've joined specifically to vote for him) then it might send a bit of a message to whoever does become leader.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/leadership

 

I was just browsing to see which MPs support which candidates.

 

I was really surprised to see that Tory warthog Frank Field supporting Jeremy Corbyn.  (I was also surprised to see that there's an MP called Thangham Debonnaire.  I would've voted for that.)

[Jairzinho]

How fucking good would it be if Corbyn got in and even won the next election.

 

Chancellor? Yes, Dennis Skinner. Home secretary, Ronnie Campbell. Foreign secretary, Caroline Lucas...

 

[Stu Monty]

I think that does him a disservice.

 

You don't need Dennis Skinner when Stiglitz agrees with you.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Good God, the last thing I'd want is Skinner as CotE. Well, not last, but quite far down the list.

[lifetime fan]

Membership card just arrived. So, for the first time ever, I'm in! It feels weird, like I'm going undercover to investigate a cult.

 

I had to think long and hard about this, because it felt wrong, at first, to be joining explicitly to vote for someone. It felt a bit like ballot-stuffing (or like one of those internet polls that gets hijacked by fans of a rival sports team, who all agree to vote for a joke). Then I considered the reason why I've never joined the Labour Party; it's largely because the labour leadership, for almost all of my adult life, have devoted their energies to distancing themselves from the labour movement and waving their arses to the corporate parasites and the right-wing media.

 

There's probably next to no chance Corbyn can get elected, but if enough people vote for him (especially if they've joined specifically to vote for him) then it might send a bit of a message to whoever does become leader.

Fair play to you mate. I let my membership lapse some time ago now.

 

They'll not get a penny out of me again until they deserve it. I'm not wasting money on this fucking wreck of a car crash to see that cunt Cooper become leader of the 'Labour' Party.

[Jairzinho]

Good God, the last thing I'd want is Skinner as CotE. Well, not last, but quite far down the list.

 

Why's that then?

 

Did you have another cabinet position in mind?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Why's that then?

I don't think he's remotely qualified for the job.

 

Did you have another cabinet position in mind?

At 83... Probably not.

[Sugar Ape]

Can't be arsed getting into the same debate with the same people about Labour except to say I agree with I think it was Paul who said you've got to change it from the inside which is why I joined as I wanted my say in the election. If this cunt gets in however I'l be cancelling my membership within minutes. Suffice to say I think it's worth paying the membership fee for a vote if only to ensure she gets no where near it. I fucking despise her.
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/greeces-syriza-are-extremists-engaging-in-fantasy-politics-labours-liz-kendall-says-10377755.html

Greece's Syriza are 'extremists' engaging in 'fantasy politics', Labour's Liz Kendall says
 

 

Greece’s governing Syriza party are “extremists” engaging in “fantasy politics”, a contender for the Labour leadership has said.

Wading into the Greek crisis, Liz Kendall said Labour should not follow the course of left-wing party, which has faced down creditors and EU institutions to reject austerity in the face of international pressure.

 

"We progressive social democratic parties have to find a credible alternative to the ever-continuing austerity ... on the one hand, and the fantasy politics of Syriza and Podemos on the other," she told an event hosted by the news channel CNBC.

 

"And that is just as much, I believe, a challenge for the UK Labour party as it is for our sister parties right across Europe.

"We have to find a different alternative, otherwise we will allow the extremists – whether from the left or the right – to come in.”

 

She later added: "Trying to turn Labour into some kind of Syriza or Podemos party or simply saying what we’ve said over the past five years – albeit with a leader with a different gender or a different accent – will not cut the mustard."

 

Ms Kendall is one of four contenders for the leadership of her party, the other three being Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham, and Jeremy Corbyn.

 

The Labour MP is widely viewed as the candidate most favoured by the centrist or 'Blairite' wing of the party, though she has said she rejects such a label.

 

Her competitor Mr Corbyn has previously called for Greece’s debt to be cancelled as a “signal to the banks and financiers that we won’t keep bailing them out for reckless lending”.

 

Ms Kendall’s attack on the Greek government is also in contrast to the approach of the Green Party.

The environmentalists’ MP Caroline Lucas said last week that European authorities had deliberately set out to “humiliate” the country with austerity.

 

“Austerity isn’t only socially destructive, as we know – it is economically deluded as well. Greece’s government debt to GDP ratio hasn’t gone down as austerity was imposed, it has increased,” she told a crowd in Trafalgar Square,” she told a solidarity demonstration in Trafalgar Square.

 

“This was never about supporting the people of Greece – it has always been about humiliating and defeating a government which has dared to stand up to the ideology of austerity.”

 

A poll of Greek voters conducted by the University of Macedonia last month found that Syriza had an 18-point lead over its nearest rival, a dramatic increase in support since its entered government.

 

A poll taken at the same time in the UK showed Labour 12 points behind the Conservatives a month after a shock election defeat.

The Greek government, led by Alexis Tsipras, is trying to forge a last-minute deal with creditors after a referendum giving it a mandate to reject an earlier proposal.

[Section_31]

She won't get in, she's a dickhead.

[lifetime fan]

I'm hoping Kendall and Cooper will split the female and centre right of party vote.

[Jairzinho]

What an absolute fucking cunt.