Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Sorry but judging by your lack of understanding of basic economics on this thread I'd wager the average builder would jump over your head on the subject, still at least it gave you an opportunity to get the age old thick builder dig in. 

Yeah... you're not doing yourself any favours there.  It's not that I don't understand "basic supply & demand, innit".  It's that I understand enough to know that that argument is horseshit.

And - again - I've never called any builders thick. Feel free to shove that particular lie up yer hoop.

 

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

"Not as simple as that?" oh please ffs please Angry, you know as well as any one Thatcher made it her economic policy to put millions on the dole to suppress wages, I bet even the builders of that time knew that.

Where the fuck does Thatcher come into this?

You're arguing that wage fluctuations are a simple matter of labour  supply.  I'm pointing out  (correctly) that there's more to it than that... and then you exhume that witch, for some reason.  (For what it's worth, the main thing Thatcher did to suppress wages was break the unions; closing the mines, steel mills, etc. was a means to an end.)

[Gnasher]

28 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Yeah... you're not doing yourself any favours there.  It's not that I don't understand "basic supply & demand, innit".  It's that I understand enough to know that that argument is horseshit.

And - again - I've never called any builders thick. Feel free to shove that particular lie up yer hoop.

 

Where the fuck does Thatcher come into this?

You're arguing that wage fluctuations are a simple matter of labour  supply.  I'm pointing out  (correctly) that there's more to it than that... and then you exhume that witch, for some reason.  (For what it's worth, the main thing Thatcher did to suppress wages was break the unions; closing the mines, steel mills, etc. was a means to an end.)

Thatcher made it her economic policy to throw millions on the dole to enlarge the pool of people desperate for work, which meant wages would stagnate thereby increasing profits for the heads of buisness. The EU policy of farming mass labour from Easten Europe is a similar strategy. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

31 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Thatcher made it her economic policy to throw millions on the dole to enlarge the pool of people desperate for work, which meant wages would stagnate thereby increasing profits for the heads of buisness. The EU policy of farming mass labour from Easten Europe is a similar strategy. 

Well... that's one interpretation of events.  An incorrect interpretation, but an interpretation nonetheless.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

26 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

 it’s nonsense to say there is no link between the supply of labour and wages within a country in the short term.  

I don't think anybody is saying that. 

 

I think Gnash is saying that the supply of labour is the sole determinant of wages, and that's nonsense too.

[Bruce Spanner]

Q1 food and exports, around about a £2B pound  difference on previous, just on food and drinks.

 

Q2 ‘should’ show an increase, but looking grim still.

 

Well done all.

 

 

 

[Bruce Spanner]

This might be of interest to some.

 

It’s interviews with the campaign/spin managers from each side and goes in to how the manoeuvred against each other in the ever changing battlefield. Interesting to hear how the stitch up happened in real time.

 

Corbyn gets a kicking as he ‘left a space open to exploit’ as does Cameron. 
 

Worth an hour of your time. 

https://www.politico.eu/westminster-insider-podcast/?utm_source=POLITICO&utm_medium=Editorial&utm_campaign=WestminsterInsider&utm_content=Shortlink

[Gnasher]

7 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I don't think anybody is saying that. 

 

I think Gnash is saying that the supply of labour is the sole determinant of wages, and that's nonsense too.

No it's not what I'm saying however it is a hugh factor. I'm agreeing with the Lib Dem advisor when he points out the bleeding obvious that lack of potential employees has been beneficial to low paid workers. Not sure how long it'll last but the evidence is there in increased wages in Construction and service sector etc.

[Gnasher]

12 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Well... that's one interpretation of events.  An incorrect interpretation, but an interpretation nonetheless.

It's not incorrect, throwing millions on the dole was a political decision.

[Numero Veinticinco]

10 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

This might be of interest to some.

 

It’s interviews with the campaign/spin managers from each side and goes in to how the manoeuvred against each other in the ever changing battlefield. Interesting to hear how the stitch up happened in real time.

 

Corbyn gets a kicking as he ‘left a space open to exploit’ as does Cameron. 
 

Worth an hour of your time. 

https://www.politico.eu/westminster-insider-podcast/?utm_source=POLITICO&utm_medium=Editorial&utm_campaign=WestminsterInsider&utm_content=Shortlink

The latest one about Brexit?

[Gnasher]

18 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Worth mentioning, also, that I don't really give a fuck about the nationality of workers. I want all workers to have more rights. These great Brexit benefits that you're trumpeting are, at best, one group of workers gaining from another group being stripped of their rights. It's divide and rule and you're lapping it up.

Bollocks, it's overseas workers on mainly low incomes staying home or deciding to work in other countries. It does seem to irk you that working class kids are getting a bit of a break dosnt it? These people are not gaining at the expense of other workers they are gaining because employers finally have to appreciate their worth and employers also have to embark on more training and skills in their field of work whereas before they often took the lazy option of importing cheap and disposable labour.

[Bruce Spanner]

2 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

The latest one about Brexit?

Yeah, a really good, but infuriating listen.

[Gnasher]

20 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Worth mentioning, also, that I don't really give a fuck about the nationality of workers. I want all workers to have more rights. These great Brexit benefits that you're trumpeting are, at best, one group of workers gaining from another group being stripped of their rights. It's divide and rule and you're lapping it up.

From the ft a couple of years ago, this'll make your knuckles go white..

 

https://www.ft.com/content/9650dcc6-86b4-11e8-a29d-73e3d454535d

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

It's not incorrect, throwing millions on the dole was a political decision.

True. But the main point of doing that was to break the unions, because that's a more effective way of suppressing wages than relying on a blunt instrument like supply & demand.

 

Incidentally, I should probably apologise for the unnecessarily snarky tone of that "that's one interpretation" post. It's a perfectly valid interpretation and (I'm saying this to myself this time) it's a bit more complicated than my simplistic "it's all about the unions".  The reasons for Thatcher's political decision to throw so many out of work included crushing the unions, increasing the pool of exploitable jobseekers, breaking up nationalised industries and utilities in preparation for privatisation, destroying the nexuses of working class solidarity, etc. You and I could bicker all day about what the main reason was, but I'd rather just agree that she's an evil cunt who deserves to burn in Hell.

[Pureblood]

4 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Q1 food and exports, around about a £2B pound  difference on previous, just on food and drinks.

 

Q2 ‘should’ show an increase, but looking grim still.

 

Well done all.

 

 

 

Yeah but unicorn imports are up by umpteen imaginillion... So a bit of balance, please. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Cheese imports are down, so Liz will be happy. 

 

 

[skend04]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/18/uk-faces-chilled-food-shortage-over-summer-logistics-industry-warns

 

Oh look, another benefit that Kurtz and Gnasher can talk about. 

[Gnasher]

59 minutes ago, skend04 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/18/uk-faces-chilled-food-shortag

59 minutes ago, skend04 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/18/uk-faces-chilled-food-shortage-over-summer-logistics-industry-warns

 

Oh look, another benefit that Kurtz and Gnasher can talk about. 

e-over-summer-logistics-industry-warns

 

Oh look, another benefit that Kurtz and Gnasher can talk about. 

 

Hmmm "shortages in drivers, packaging and production workers" so great news if you work in those fields.

[skend04]

18 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Hmmm "shortages in drivers, packaging and production workers" so great news if you work in those fields.

You best brush off your CV then and you best pack my Petit Filous properly otherwise I know where you post 

[Gnasher]

19 minutes ago, skend04 said:

You best brush off your CV then and you best pack my Petit Filous properly otherwise I know where you post 

How very pompous of you.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

 

Hmmm "shortages in drivers, packaging and production workers" so great news if you work in those fields.

There is (apparently) between 50-100k gap of HGV drivers.

[Bruce Spanner]

11 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

There is (apparently) between 50-100k gap of HGV drivers.

That’s one of my biggest gripes about the whole thing.

 

Democratically we voted leave, you can argue about shenanigans until the cows come home, but that was the outcome and they must have known that these simple things would be immediate issues, but they have done nothing to mitigate against it.

 

We’ve had five years now and simple things like this and more border control agents and more apprenticeship avenues to start plugging shortfalls etc. haven't even been thought about.

 

Simple practicalities like food import are besiged with problems because no attention has been paid to them on a practicle day to day level.

 

Travel etc, just not thought about.

 

Just an amazing lack of foresight or impetus to actually see how it was going to pan out and try and be post Brexit ready, which we clearly aren’t.  

[Jairzinho]

9 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Just an amazing lack of foresight or impetus to actually see how it was going to pan out and try and be post Brexit ready, which we clearly aren’t.  

You seem to be suggesting they're arsed though. 

 

 

[Bruce Spanner]

Just now, Jairzinho said:

You seem to be suggesting they're arsed though. 

 

 

 

Oh, I understand I'm giving them too much credit already, but fuckig hell, come on, this is the simple stuff.

 

We could have had it figured out over a glass of Rioja, or three, in about an hour.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

There is (apparently) between 50-100k gap of HGV drivers.

So great news if you're a HGV driver or a young person thinking of becoming an HGV driver then.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Bruce Spanner said:

That’s one of my biggest gripes about the whole thing.

 

Democratically we voted leave, you can argue about shenanigans until the cows come home, but that was the outcome and they must have known that these simple things would be immediate issues, but they have done nothing to mitigate against it.

 

We’ve had five years now and simple things like this and more border control agents and more apprenticeship avenues to start plugging shortfalls etc. haven't even been thought about.

 

Simple practicalities like food import are besiged with problems because no attention has been paid to them on a practicle day to day level.

 

Travel etc, just not thought about.

 

Just an amazing lack of foresight or impetus to actually see how it was going to pan out and try and be post Brexit ready, which we clearly aren’t.  

The people who tried different ways to make this shitshow work were shouted down and voted down by dopes with party political agendas - in the Tory Party, by the ERG and the Court of King Boris; in Labour, by the "anyone but Corbyn" cult. 

 

Intra-party bickering was more important than doing the right thing for the country.