Someone's having a real laugh - gollum?

[Code]

By overachieving I obviously meant the mancs and the players who have played for them over the years would not have won even half of what they have done with another manager than Ferguson.

 

Say whatever you like about him but he is a proven winner and he managed to make the players believe they were almost unbeatable and they attacked without fear of losing.

 

When Ferguson would throw on attacking players and go all out for the win the last 10 minutes of a game, Moyes will retreat and try not to lose, its in his nature because he is a loser and not a winner like Ferguson.

[tomyam scouse]

I feel a bit sorry for him having just re-watched the match. When Nani goes down in the box late on, Rooney (who could have just stuck the ball in the net) immediately stops playing and turns to the ref. He KNOWS they've got a penalty, but the ref doesn't give it. Last season, he would have. It's losing the bent decisions that's hurting them more than gaining Moyes.

[Coro]

This is all happening so soon.

 

It's really fantastic.

 

6 year contract!

[Paulie Dangerously]

Code is right. How many times did they win the league with a squad that wasn't as food as Chelseas or even Arsenals years ago? Ferguson was a miracle worker at times

[ZonkoVille77]

Code is right. How many times did they win the league with a squad that wasn't as food as Chelseas or even Arsenals years ago? Ferguson was a miracle worker at times

And with some help from the officials along the way.

[chris71]

Hopefully Rooney starts kicking up a fuss to leave in January. Keep the pressure cranking up on the club.

[Guest San Don]

Code is right. How many times did they win the league with a squad that wasn't as food as Chelseas or even Arsenals years ago? Ferguson was a miracle worker at times

 

No he's not. They won the title comfortably. That's not overachieving. The league was shit but no one else had the consistency to even mount a decent challenge.

 

But hey, what the fuck, I dont want to argue anything for manchester united. This discussion belongs in the bin together with the one that for the last few years, man for man our team has been as good as them.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

I challenge you to name a Liverpool title winning side as average as theirs last year in terms of quality.

 

I don't think we were/are as good as them, although I think if we'd had a Suarez and a winger in our 2009 side we'd have been up there with the best in the world in terms of first XI quality players, let alone the mancs.

 

Credit is given where it's due, the mancs have had some awesome sides, their late 90s team is one of the best sides I've ever seen, but they've steadily declined ever since (when was the last time they could call on 4 top class strikers in a single game like that, or had a midfield general everyone feared) and relied on a core of world class players and the drive of Ferguson to push them beyond their limits.

Our last title winning team wasn't exactly ace. It took Ronnie Rosenthal to win it for us.

 

But United have had more than one team like last season.

[Guest San Don]

Our last title winning team wasn't exactly ace. It took Ronnie Rosenthal to win it for us.

 

But United have had more than one team like last season.

 

You can argue that most of the teams that didnt win the title a couple of times in a 5 year period 'overachieved'  then fell back into the pack.

 

Im not arguing for manchester united. Im saying the 'overachieving' point is on the same level as saying man of man, our team has been as good as them in the last few years. Clearly it hasnt.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Teams lied down for united. Play a weaker side sacrificed the three points and rested players I also don't care what anyone says the refs were intimidated by ferguson and it showed. It was more to do with others fear or sheer ball sucking why United have won more than a couple of their titles. I hope they choke on shit.

[JohnnyH]

Six games into a 6 year contract. I won't be celebrating just yet. It was always going to be a tough start. His job is to get top 4 this year, and I think he'll do that.

 

However, he won't take average teams to league titles like ferguson could.

 

Just wish the changes at Utd, City and Chelsea could have happened in 2007 or so, as I'm convinced we'd be up at 20 now.

[RobbieOR]

I knew he'd fail miserably and said it in June. It was as obvious as it was when Hodgson was in charge with us.

[Tony Moanero]

People forget that some of our title winning teams featured 'average' players. Our players weren't all world beaters to a man. Spackman, Kevin MacDonald, Venison, Burrows, Rosenthal, etc.

[TheHowieLama]

"We did not defend well at all but we did not attack well," the former Everton manager told BBC Sport.

 

He knows.

[AmerScouse]

^{his comments re: the champions league yesterday were awesome.  he is single handedly destroying them mentally.  he is undoing in weeks what ferguson took years to build from a mentality perspective.}

 

^{its fascinating to watch.  I thought this was the year the mancs finished 5th.  it was more hopeful than anything else because they don't have a ton of quality, but it might well just come off}

[KMD7]

^{his comments re: the champions league yesterday were awesome.  he is single handedly destroying them mentally.  he is undoing in weeks what ferguson took years to build from a mentality perspective.}

 

^{its fascinating to watch.  I thought this was the year the mancs finished 5th.  it was more hopeful than anything else because they don't have a ton of quality, but it might well just come off}

I think they're going to finish outside top four with Moyes in charge.  Brilliant stuff.  A mid table manager with a mid table mindset. 

[clangers]

I think they're going to finish outside top four with Moyes in charge.  Brilliant stuff.  A mid table manager with a mid table mindset. 

It's certainly looking that way, it's all very Hodgsonesque even down to the denial and disbelief from their supporters. Surely they can't deteriorate that quickly?

 

Early days but we might be finding out just how many points a season Ferguson was worth to them?

 

Personally I'd rather he rallied a bit, if he's a complete disaster he'll be out in months and they might bring in someone who knows what they're doing. We need United to show faith in Moyes for a couple of seasons as he completely dismantles them.

[KMD7]

It's certainly looking that way, it's all very Hodgsonesque even down to the denial and disbelief from their supporters. Surely they can't deteriorate that quickly?

 

Early days but we might be finding out just how many points a season Ferguson was worth to them?

 

Personally I'd rather he rallied a bit, if he's a complete disaster he'll be out in months and they might bring in someone who knows what they're doing. We need United to show faith in Moyes for a couple of seasons as he completely dismantles them.

 

Oh I agree completely.  I'd rather he dismantles them slowly. 

[dennis tooth]

Tellingly he looks to have aged a great deal:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24322637

[dennis tooth]

If stoke and norwich can draw then they both go above the mancs hahaha

[JermainePennant]

I'm trying to not get too excited but things ain't looking good for the mancs, there two best players look like they would rather be elsewhere and suddenly they don't look such an attractive option for players.

 

They haven't had the strongest squad for a few years but they had the Ferguson factor, I remember at the end of 1 season Hansen saying whoever fergie managed out of top 4 that year would have won and I agreed.

 

I think he quit because he couldn't see a better finish then last season with all the money at other clubs and has left moyes with average team by manus standard.I just hope moyes gets the season so a top manager don't come in and attract some big names.

[fowler9]

well its taken 11 years but he has finally got Everton ahead of Man United

[Code]

Keegan said in the Norwegian PL studio, he can't see the mancs getting top 4.

[ElishaScottBC]

Those of you asking for Moyes to dismantle the mancs slowly, think of the pressure you are putting on him!!! Can't he just dismantle them at his own blistering pace?!?!?!

[Barney_Rubble]

It is certainly a joy to watch, like a slowmo car crash. The beauty of it all is that you could rewind it back-and-forward at leisure to see every minute detail. Brilliant.

 

I'll be due a fairly big payout from a manc mate if they drop out of the top 4, so I am using every single opportunity to rub it in (I played "Money" from The Dark Side of The Moon to him as soon as the their game ended yesterday) - I am fucking relentless at it.