Other football

[Guest LFD]

just seen the 'spectacular' bale goal. i wasn't that impressed. Beats 1 defender for pace and scores from 4 yards through keepers legs, the pace was impressive but that was about it for me.

 

I thought the pace was electric.  It was Henry-esq, just like when he skinned Carragher at Anfield one day and it was unplayable.  How the defender tried to get in his way, yet he still went the long way round him and easily got to the ball was brilliant.  Also running at such pace, I thought the finish was clever, as I love a toe poke - such an underrated yet effective finish. 

 

Add to the importance of the match, I thought it was a great goal.

[Guest LFD]

Why would you want the worlds best attacking talent getting tired tracking back. Save their energy for what they do best imo.

 

For the good of the team.

 

We are very much a team, not about one player.  Barca are all about Messi really. 

[Jairzinho]

For the good of the team.

 

We are very much a team, not about one player.  Barca are all about Messi really.

 

I'm not sure this was true under Guardiola. He's arguably the greatest player ever so quite a lot of emphasis will be on him whoever he played for, whoever the manager was. But they were a properly good team.

 

Maybe this season, because the manager is shit. His refusal to use Sanchez and Pedro has made them even more narrow, and therefore even more reliant on Messi.

 

Real Madrid is different. More of a 4-2-3-1, with four attacking players to do the attacking (with some support from fullbacks, obviously) and the rest to defend. Very much two parts within a team.

[Dr Nowt]

I think Suarez is the best player in the world at the moment.

 

He is getting the same goals and assists as Messi and Ronaldo, despite the other two getting many from penalties.

 

To add to that he doesn't always play as a striker, at times this season we have used him on the right or left wing.  He has freedom to roam, as Ronaldo does, but it still shows he will change his role for the good of the team.

 

To add to that he doesn't get the free role the Ronaldo and Messi do without the ball.  When Barca or Real lose possession, those two basic stop running.  Ronaldo will jog back into position if the opposition have the ball but that's about it.  Suarez is not only always on the move when we have possession (as Neville & Carragher showed he makes the most sprints in a game in the league).  But without the ball, like Rush did, he leads our pressing / defending and everyone in this team have to do that.  He also tracks back, when playing in the wide position.  

 

So basically he gets the same amount of goals & assists as Ronaldo and Messi, but also does the ugly stuff, such as putting his foot in and working his ass off without the ball.  Ronaldo and Messi have done it season after season, which is why they are rated as the big two.  But for me, Suarez is the best player in the world at the moment and the other two are behind him.

 

Nice post, LFD.

[Jairzinho]

I think as well as tactical differences, and team mentality differences, between us and Barcelona/Real Madrid, Suarez' character is pretty unique. His will to win is matched by very few.

[Guest LFD]

I'm not sure this was true under Guardiola. He's arguably the greatest player ever so quite a lot of emphasis will be on him whoever he played for, whoever the manager was. But they were a properly good team.

 

Maybe this season, because the manager is shit. His refusal to use Sanchez and Pedro has made them even more narrow, and therefore even more reliant on Messi.

 

Real Madrid is different. More of a 4-2-3-1, with four attacking players to do the attacking (with some support from fullbacks, obviously) and the rest to defend. Very much two parts within a team.

 

Yeah this season, Barca are very reliant on Messi.  I think they have been before this season as well, as he had been getting 50% of their goals.  Suarez isn't doing that for us, we scored 93 goals this season, he's getting about a third of our goals.

 

Real Madrid aren't reliant on Ronaldo, as they showed the other night.  But I think Barca are reliant on Messi, more than any side in the world are reliant on one individual player.  

[RazorBack]

Why would you want the worlds best attacking talent getting tired tracking back. Save their energy for what they do best imo.

 

Like somebody else said, for the good of the team. If MJ says its not about the best player but about the best team, then something must be on it.. CR has the willpower to score, Suarez the willpower to win. There's a difference..

 

Its sick unreal goalkeeping and defending.

Guys, you have to put your hatred for Spurs/Bale aside and admit, Bale is fast as fuck and not many can do that. It was not the goal that was amazing but the run, not many players can run 50m+ in sprint and finish like he did. And he did another one like that against Rayo Vallecano a few weeks ago (after a corner, I'd say it was 70-80m full speed and with a sublie finish as well). True, Pinto is shit but he could power it in as well, even if it was Valdes or anybody else he still had a fair chance of scoring. To be truly a great, give credit wheres due.. 

[Jairzinho]

Yeah this season, Barca are very reliant on Messi.  I think they have been before this season as well, as he had been getting 50% of their goals.  Suarez isn't doing that for us, we scored 93 goals this season, he's getting about a third of our goals.

 

Real Madrid aren't reliant on Ronaldo, as they showed the other night.  But I think Barca are reliant on Messi, more than any side in the world are reliant on one individual player.  

 

Messi got 73 goals in 2011/12. Barcelona were scoring more goals than we do, so I don't think percentage stats alone are particularly illuminating.

 

One game isn't evidence of anything. I completely disagree with you regarding Messi. I just feel its a lazy, and overly simplistic, observation.

 

Its not something that can ever be proven one way or another, as you'd need to remove Messi from Barcelona's side, or Suarez from ours, for a prolonged period of time (at least half a season, not a handful of games) to see how the team, or rather, how the manager would make the team adapt. I happen to think both sides would still be excellent.

[Jairzinho]

 

 

Guys, you have to put your hatred for Spurs/Bale aside and admit, Bale is fast as fuck and not many can do that. It was not the goal that was amazing but the run, not many players can run 50m+ in sprint and finish like he did. And he did another one like that against Rayo Vallecano a few weeks ago (after a corner, I'd say it was 70-80m full speed and with a sublie finish as well). True, Pinto is shit but he could power it in as well, even if it was Valdes or anybody else he still had a fair chance of scoring. To be truly a great, give credit wheres due.. 

 

I don't hate Bale. And yes, he ran very quickly.

[Barrington Womble]

Like somebody else said, for the good of the team. If MJ says its not about the best player but about the best team, then something must be on it.. CR has the willpower to score, Suarez the willpower to win. There's a difference..

 

Guys, you have to put your hatred for Spurs/Bale aside and admit, Bale is fast as fuck and not many can do that. It was not the goal that was amazing but the run, not many players can run 50m+ in sprint and finish like he did. And he did another one like that against Rayo Vallecano a few weeks ago (after a corner, I'd say it was 70-80m full speed and with a sublie finish as well). True, Pinto is shit but he could power it in as well, even if it was Valdes or anybody else he still had a fair chance of scoring. To be truly a great, give credit wheres due..

A lot of players can run 50 yards and miskick the ball. I have no hatred for either bale or spurs (I do despise bales current club and Barcelona though). I just don't think the goal was all that. As I said in my post, it was like something from school, a quick kid and a bunch of school boy defending and goalkeeping. There'll be plenty of goals scored this weekend better than that, in fact as we play Norwich a good example would be every single one of Suarez's goals at Anfield against them this season.

 

[Guest LFD]

Messi got 73 goals in 2011/12. Barcelona were scoring more goals than we do, so I don't think percentage stats alone are particularly illuminating.

 

One game isn't evidence of anything. I completely disagree with you regarding Messi. I just feel its a lazy, and overly simplistic, observation.

 

Its not something that can ever be proven one way or another, as you'd need to remove Messi from Barcelona's side, or Suarez from ours, for a prolonged period of time (at least half a season, not a handful of games) to see how the team, or rather, how the manager would make the team adapt. I happen to think both sides would still be excellent.

 

It is just obvious isn't it that a team getting 50%+ of their goals from Messi, is more reliant than a team getting less than 30% of their goals from Suarez.

 

Not lazy, just facts.  We are getting goals from more sources, such as Sturridge with 20, Skrtel with 7, Sterling with 7 etc.

 

I think Barca were better when they got goals through out their attack and team, with Henry, Messi and Eto'o scoring loads between them.

 

I agree that swapping Suarez and Messi, both teams would still be excellent, as they are two of the best three players in the world.  But I personally wouldn't swap Suarez with anyone at the moment given what he offers - goals, assists, energy, hard work, most sprints, versatility - he's the total package.

[Jairzinho]

It is just obvious isn't it that a team getting 50%+ of their goals from Messi, is more reliant than a team getting less than 30% of their goals from Suarez.

 

Not lazy, just facts.  We are getting goals from more sources, such as Sturridge with 20, Skrtel with 7, Sterling with 7 etc.

 

 

No, it isn't obvious. My point was that facts alone cannot prove something like this.

 

Although if you want some, in 2012 Barcelona had eight players that had scored seven or more goals.

[Guest LFD]

No, it isn't obvious. My point was that facts alone cannot prove something like this.

 

Although if you want some, in 2012 Barcelona had eight players that had scored seven or more goals.

 

I think % of goals does tell a lot.  But obviously it depends how much the team is scoring as a whole to see how reliant they are on that individual player.  

 

I'm not saying Barca have always been a one man team (although I do think Messi is more vital to them than Ronaldo and Suarez are to us), but this season they have looked blunt without him and too reliant on him.  Which you agreed with.  I liked them best when they had more goals coming from other areas (Henry, Eto'o and Messi were my favourite front three of theirs).  

 

Suarez is the best player in the world moment, we can agree on that as well.  That's all that matters.

[RazorBack]

A lot of players can run 50 yards and miskick the ball. I have no hatred for either bale or spurs (I do despise bales current club and Barcelona though). I just don't think the goal was all that. As I said in my post, it was like something from school, a quick kid and a bunch of school boy defending and goalkeeping. There'll be plenty of goals scored this weekend better than that, in fact as we play Norwich a good example would be every single one of Suarez's goals at Anfield against them this season.

 

The goal itself wasn't all that but his physical ability to get himself in that kind of position that's amazing, if you like it or not. To put it a bit different, Messi scores a shitload of goals, but most of his goals are boring or plain. Yes, they're hard to execute but not that attractive, even though they are important (when they're behind or 1:1 in the 85' for example). Suarez scores magical goals, Ibra powers them in and his goals are probably the most attractive goals, Ronaldinho was a god, CR scores "better" goals than Messi.. But still most people would say Messi is probably the best, or one of the best players, ever if you'd go on YT and put in Messi top10 goals you wouldn't be as amazed. Some player in a marginal league can score goals that are more fun to watch but you have to take the importance into account.. Just my 2 cents, don't think you should be comparing Bales goal with kids on the playground but to each his own.

[Jairzinho]

The goal itself wasn't all that but his physical ability to get himself in that kind of position that's amazing, if you like it or not. To put it a bit different, Messi scores a shitload of goals, but most of his goals are boring or plain. Yes, they're hard to execute but not that attractive, even though they are important (when they're behind or 1:1 in the 85' for example). Suarez scores magical goals, Ibra powers them in and his goals are probably the most attractive goals, Ronaldinho was a god, CR scores "better" goals than Messi.. But still most people would say Messi is probably the best, or one of the best players, ever if you'd go on YT and put in Messi top10 goals you wouldn't be as amazed. Some player in a marginal league can score goals that are more fun to watch but you have to take the importance into account.. Just my 2 cents, don't think you should be comparing Bales goal with kids on the playground but to each his own.

 

I strongly disagree with all the bits I've enlarged which is kind of why I don't think Bale's goal was all that great.

 

Twatting the ball from 30 yards, or running really fast, aren't things I find amazing. Its the intricacy of the likes of Iniesta and Silva, or indeed Messi, that I personally find aesthetically pleasing. I don't really care if the goal finishes with a three yard tap-in, if the build up has been precise one touch football.

[Barrington Womble]

The goal itself wasn't all that but his physical ability to get himself in that kind of position that's amazing, if you like it or not. To put it a bit different, Messi scores a shitload of goals, but most of his goals are boring or plain. Yes, they're hard to execute but not that attractive, even though they are important (when they're behind or 1:1 in the 85' for example). Suarez scores magical goals, Ibra powers them in and his goals are probably the most attractive goals, Ronaldinho was a god, CR scores "better" goals than Messi.. But still most people would say Messi is probably the best, or one of the best players, ever if you'd go on YT and put in Messi top10 goals you wouldn't be as amazed. Some player in a marginal league can score goals that are more fun to watch but you have to take the importance into account.. Just my 2 cents, don't think you should be comparing Bales goal with kids on the playground but to each his own.

Maybe what you look for in a footballer is different to me. Messi has talent and when he's 50, he'll still be brilliant. I just don't get excited by goals that are scored due to athleticism. If athleticism was important to me, I'd watch the decathlon, but I don't care. I want to see sublime skill and intelligent football - of course a certain physical level is required to execute at a high level, but its just not special to me. I don't think bale posses either of those attributes i look for and as a consequence when I see goals like that from Wednesday I just feel a bit "meh" about it. He can sometimes really hit a shot or dead ball and I can get an board with the skill involved in the execution. But no matter how much I watch that goal from Wednesday it owes way more to school boy defending and goalkeeping than anything bale brings to the table.

 

And for the record I'll compare his goals to what the fuck I want, just as you can sit whacking one out over it if you want.

[PestiRed]

The goal was pretty good but not sure I understand the level of amazement in the media about a footballer continuing to run even though he went off the side of the pitch. Do they lay mines at the side of the pitch in Spain or something?

[KMD7]

Nice post, LFD.

 

Very good post alright. He's awesome right now and fully deserving of all the plaudits he's getting but I worry though whether Luis will be able to sustain the kind of form he's currently in long term due to how hard he works off the ball.   I fear he'll burn out or break down.  Then again now that Cou and Raheem are stepping up to the plate it might take the pressure off him to exert himself the way that he has been.  With the WC coming up I can see him going off the boil a bit at the beginning of next season.

[RazorBack]

And for the record I'll compare his goals to what the fuck I want, just as you can sit whacking one out over it if you want.

 

Can appreciate different opinions, one rates this, others that and could see your point and all that. But that last bit it's shit, don't be small minded, cursing on the internet and posting shite like that, as I already said in my previous post to each his own. Better not to get offended on the small time internet forum, but who am I to be telling you this..

[Barrington Womble]

Can appreciate different opinions, one rates this, others that and could see your point and all that. But that last bit it's shit, don't be small minded, cursing on the internet and posting shite like that, as I already said in my previous post to each his own. Better not to get offended on the small time internet forum, but who am I to be telling you this..

I don't get your point, outside of the fact you think I'm small minded because I think Barcelona defend like school kids and somehow I should be bigger than that. I'm not, if I think a goal was like a goal from a school pitch, I'll say so and if that makes me small minded because I don't worship Barcelona or Gareth bale I can live with it. Its better than my other analogy where I thought it looked like a Benny hill sketch. It was a comic goal and outside of bale being very fast I struggle to see any football in there outside of poor defending, poor goalkeeping and some bad touches and a desperate toe poke from bale.

 

[Boss]

Football really is a simple game sometimes, kick and run, doesn't matter how much skill or knowledge you have if it's a straight race between you and someone else for the ball and he's much faster, then it's goodnight for you.

 

Happened to Barry in the world cup when Ozil fleeced him with a 10 metre head start for the fourth goal, had to smile at that after the fact, Joey Barton was right, Barry's little legs pumping furiously, Ozil like a gazelle striding past him without a care in the world, beautiful in it's way.

 

The Bale touch in the box was terrible, the toe poke poor, the keeping dreadful, but that kick and run past Bartra was beautiful in it's simplicity.

[Baltar]

 

Dylan Tombides: West Ham striker, 20, dies of cancer

West Ham have confirmed that Australian-born strikerDylan Tombides,  20, has died of cancer.

Tombides, who made one senior appearance for the club after signing as a 15-year-old, was diagnosed with testicular cancer in 2011.

"He will be hugely missed by everyone who had the honour of knowing him," said West Ham in a statement. 

A minute's applause will be staged at West Ham's home game against Crystal Palace on Saturday.

Just 20 years old, very sad.

[Barrington Womble]

Football really is a simple game sometimes, kick and run, doesn't matter how much skill or knowledge you have if it's a straight race between you and someone else for the ball and he's much faster, then it's goodnight for you.

 

Happened to Barry in the world cup when Ozil fleeced him with a 10 metre head start for the fourth goal, had to smile at that after the fact, Joey Barton was right, Barry's little legs pumping furiously, Ozil like a gazelle striding past him without a care in the world, beautiful in it's way.

 

The Bale touch in the box was terrible, the toe poke poor, the keeping dreadful, but that kick and run past Bartra was beautiful in it's simplicity.

I think in general everyone would agree with that. I'm just not sure it makes it a special goal - that's all I'm saying anyway.

[KMD7]

I think in general everyone would agree with that. I'm just not sure it makes it a special goal - that's all I'm saying anyway.

 

You're right.  A dramatic goal I guess given how late in the game it was and what was at stake coupled with the rivalry but not a great goal in itself. 

[BCM]

I think in general everyone would agree with that. I'm just not sure it makes it a special goal - that's all I'm saying anyway.

 

 

Im glad im not the only one thinking that, i heard on the radio and seen comments on twitter about this wonder goal.

Then i watched it later and he basically outran the other player, miscontrolled it twice and then toe'eed it past the keeper, not special at all in my opinion.