The current officiating fiasco

[Lucky Pierre]

What is the FF's view on it? Are some officials corrupt? Do they lie about who they support as suggested on Twitter? Do the FA request certain officials for certain team's matches? Or, are a lot of them just inept and unable to do their job? Are Dowd, Webb, Mason et al just the best of a very, very bad bunch?

[Coro]

The spirit of the game is corrupt. They understand where the power lies.

[Tossed and blown]

Monetarily corrupt - no

 

Biased, either due to pre-game conceptions or intra-game events - yes

 

Inept - yes. But in some cases hampered by the lack of TV evidence

[Trucker Paddy]

I thought Micheal Oliver was going to be decent but he's now gone the way of the rest of them.

Yesterdays decision not to punish Balotelli as "1 of the officials seen it" and not overturning Shaun Derry's red card was corruption, no more no less pure corruption in the FA

[Code]

I think they are inept really and I also think its about time they should face the press after the games to explain some of their decisions.

 

That might be the incentive they need to do a better job than they currently do.

[Code]

I thought Micheal Oliver was going to be decent but he's now gone the way of the rest of them.

Yesterdays decision not to punish Balotelli as "1 of the officials seen it" and not overturning Shaun Derry's red card was corruption, no more no less pure corruption in the FA

 

Why should they punish Balotelli though Rich, we see those kind of tackles in almost every game.

 

I have just seen the first booking he got in that game by the way and I think it was a fuckin joke, Balotelli was the one closest to the ball and Sagna kicks into his boot and Balotelli gets a yellow, joke of a decision that.

[Kevin D]

I want to know exactly why we haven't been paying some off? Another example of Kenny's antiquated methods leaving us behind; a modern manager would know that buying refs is essential and, from what I hear, Kenny won't even rub his hands at senior players.

 

How long are we going to let sentimentally hold us back?

[ngogswilly]

I always find it slightly interesting that around this time every season the mancs seem to start getting an abnormally large amount of decisions go their way.

 

And in years where they are lagging behind their rivals it just becomes insanely obviously biased.

 

At this point I'm positive it happens, I'm just not sure if its because the refs are scared of shittypants or footballs governing bodies are just desperate for the moneyspinning cunts to continue dominating English football.

[xerxes]

The standard of refereeing and the fitness of referees is better than it has ever been.

 

As coverage of all PL games in multiple camera detail has become the norm, so has the ability to scrutinise referee’s decisions become greater than ever before.

 

Referees always have and always will miss incidents, and make decisions in the heat of battle which prove flawed. That is the human part of the game. There is no evidence of financial corruption.

 

I do think that there is a case for greater transparency and openness after games. I really see no problem with a referee, having the benefit of unlimited time and camera angles conceding a bad call, when made.

 

The hysterical (and default) reaction of many managers to referees decisions , often to distract from their own failings, is a bigger issue.

 

There is a debate about to be had about to what extent fans, players and managers want games re-refereed by video. Fans tend to be selective and cherry-pick about what they do and do not want dealt with retrospectively.

 

I do not want to see stop-start football as a result of in-game video referrals. I think that calls on whether a ball has crossed the line or not should be able to be granted by the fourth official if he or she has access to a TV and the situation is clear. I also think there is a case for retrospective disciplinary punishment for missed, or incorrectly called, offences.

 

Beyond that I am relaxed. If video refereeing was accepted pretty much every penalty would have to be taken because of goalkeepers coming forwards off their line.

[Iceman]

We all know that the Italian game had corruption and match fixing. It's been well documented and everyone accepts it as fact. Games were fixed and money changed hands. Why would that happen in Italy and not here? Because they are Italian? No. Greed is a human weakness, and it isn't exclusive to one set of people, or one country.

 

I obviously have no way to prove it conclusively but for what it's worth, my opinion is that I do think there are refs in this country that are definitely colluding in the fixing of games, and when I see what I saw tonight, a whole stadium celebrate a perfectly legitimate goal, which even the ref sees no problem with and to see it then disallowed because the linesman,( who is further away from the action than the players or the ref), sees an "infringement" that not one other person in the ground can see, and even after many replays, the "foul" is still nowhere to be seen; well then I really don't have to ask myself is there corruption in our game, because the evidence is so prevalent, its so blatant, and there are just so many examples of bizarre and unexplainable decisions, that even an amateur ref in a sunday league couldn't get away with, let alone a pro ref at the top of his game.

 

So how do they get away with it? I think it's that so many of us simply refuse to see it or believe that it really could be so blatant. Perhaps it's a denial that the game we love has been hijacked by crooks and frauds. It has though, and the evidence is there in front of our eyes almost every weekend. When you get smacked in the face repeatedly, after a while it stops hurting as much, you get desensitized.

 

Look at the Ashley Young "penalty". Really look at it, and then ask yourself, is that right? Does that seem like a decision made by a really neutral ref? Was it fair? Did he really look at that situation and work out what had happened? No. He instantly blew for the pen and had no hesitation whatsoever in sending the man off and giving the scum the maximum chance of winning the game. I call that cheating. One team gains an unfair advantage at the expense of another using tactics outside the laws of the game with collusion from the match official.

 

It's never a nice thought to have, but the fact is wives cheat, friends lie and footy games can be fixed. Why wouldn't they be? Do you really think that a ref can't be bought? It's fairly naive to think it's not possible. And if it's possible the chances are it's already happened.

[Iceman]

I do not want to see stop-start football as a result of in-game video referrals. I think that calls on whether a ball has crossed the line or not should be able to be granted by the fourth official if he or she has access to a TV and the situation is clear. I also think there is a case for retrospective disciplinary punishment for missed, or incorrectly called, offences.

 

Beyond that I am relaxed. If video refereeing was accepted pretty much every penalty would have to be taken because of goalkeepers coming forwards off their line.

 

I would much rather have stop-start footy where it's fair, than the fast-moving but clearly unfair game we currently have. Who cares if penalties have to be taken again? Keepers will just have to learn to stay on their line. The benefits of keeping slur and his cronies from doing what they are doing now, far outweighs the negatives of 5 second pauses for ref's review.

[Antynwa]

My Grandad is convinced that in a few years time, when Ferguson is dead, a few people will come out of the woodwork and say that refs took bribes.

 

He knows it.

[JohnnyH]

I’m not sure if its money changing hands, but there is certainly a level of corruption going on. Man Utd will always be the main beneficiaries of this because of Alex Ferguson. He rules the Premier League. Referees have seen what has happened to other refs who have crossed him when they have had their personal lives spread all over the red tops, or don’t get a big PL match for years. It’s enough pressure to make a ref stop for one second before giving a decision and that little pause is enough for the situation to pass him by. What was it? No penalty given in the league at Old Trafford for an 11 year spell?

 

It’s no surprise that in the business end of the season we had the last minute blatant penalty not given to Fulham, the shocking decision against QPR where the ref gave a pen for a blatant dive, and the linesman also missed an extremely obvious offside despite being in the perfect position. And then past nights perfectly good goal for Wigan that was ruled out for no good reason. To be fair to UTD, they had a proper penalty shout rejected also by the same linesman who, I can only assume, realised at half time what a monumental fuck up he’d made with the 1st decision.

 

But there is pressure-corruption in the English game. I think the game will honestly be better when Ferguson retires as the pressure he wields is just too strong. It’s bad for the game.

 

Are people genuinely going to say it’s just a coincidence that for the vast majority of the last 20 years one of the biggest spending teams in the world has only managed 2 European Cups (both of which they were the 2nd best team)? They got to recent finals (especially last year) by getting an incredibly lucky route to the final, only then to meet a top team and get absolutely hosed. If it wasn’t for Barca starting to try flicks and tricks it could and should have been 6 or 7. So 20 seasons and 2 European Cups, but you switch to the league and its 13 league titles in the same time? Yes, Ferguson is tactically naïve in Europe and well behind top coaches like Mourninho, Ancelotti, Pep, Capello, etc in this regard, but there’s more to it, mainly because there has to be more to be to it. No one could be that poor in Europe (relative to their position in World football) while been able to rule their domestic league.

 

But we can’t also rule out the bribery. It’s gone on in all the other top European leagues so it would be very naïve to suggest it’s not going on here to some degree.

[Magic Sponge]

David Blunkett could do a better job.

[Major Tom]

No corruption, just a very difficult sport to officiate. The reticence within the sport to embrace any sort of technology doesn't help either.

 

Saying that, as with most sports, the big teams and the home teams get the rub of the green.

[Magic Sponge]

No corruption, just a very difficult sport to officiate. The reticence within the sport to embrace any sort of technology doesn't help either.

 

Saying that, as with most sports, the big teams and the home teams get the rub of the green.

 

Have you seen the incidents over the last couple of games?

 

The standard of refereeing is fucking cack.

[Major Tom]

I’m not sure if its money changing hands, but there is certainly a level of corruption going on. Man Utd will always be the main beneficiaries of this because of Alex Ferguson. He rules the Premier League. Referees have seen what has happened to other refs who have crossed him when they have had their personal lives spread all over the red tops, or don’t get a big PL match for years. It’s enough pressure to make a ref stop for one second before giving a decision and that little pause is enough for the situation to pass him by. What was it? No penalty given in the league at Old Trafford for an 11 year spell?

 

It’s no surprise that in the business end of the season we had the last minute blatant penalty not given to Fulham, the shocking decision against QPR where the ref gave a pen for a blatant dive, and the linesman also missed an extremely obvious offside despite being in the perfect position. And then past nights perfectly good goal for Wigan that was ruled out for no good reason. To be fair to UTD, they had a proper penalty shout rejected also by the same linesman who, I can only assume, realised at half time what a monumental fuck up he’d made with the 1st decision.

 

But there is pressure-corruption in the English game. I think the game will honestly be better when Ferguson retires as the pressure he wields is just too strong. It’s bad for the game.

 

Are people genuinely going to say it’s just a coincidence that for the vast majority of the last 20 years one of the biggest spending teams in the world has only managed 2 European Cups (both of which they were the 2nd best team)? They got to recent finals (especially last year) by getting an incredibly lucky route to the final, only then to meet a top team and get absolutely hosed. If it wasn’t for Barca starting to try flicks and tricks it could and should have been 6 or 7. So 20 seasons and 2 European Cups, but you switch to the league and its 13 league titles in the same time? Yes, Ferguson is tactically naïve in Europe and well behind top coaches like Mourninho, Ancelotti, Pep, Capello, etc in this regard, but there’s more to it, mainly because there has to be more to be to it. No one could be that poor in Europe (relative to their position in World football) while been able to rule their domestic league.

 

But we can’t also rule out the bribery. It’s gone on in all the other top European leagues so it would be very naïve to suggest it’s not going on here to some degree.

 

Posts like this make me wince. Anyone suggesting that Utd have won titles on the back any sort of corruption are a little blinkered. Utd have so obviously been the best side for the majority of the past 20 years.

 

Johnny, this pressure based corruption you talk of, was it the reason behind us dominating for 15 years? Or has pressure based corruption only been around since Utd started winning?

 

Saying that, Ferguson does have far too much influence in English football. But it's not the reason they win titles. They are merely the best team more often than not.

[Major Tom]

Have you seen the incidents over the last couple of games?

 

The standard of refereeing is fucking cack.

 

I didn't say it wasn't. I just don't think it's corruption.

 

As I said, football must be the most difficult sport in the world to officiate.

[Gym Beglin]

As much as I want to blame this emotionless robots, I agree with many on here, it's almost impossible to keep up with the game without technology to help them.

 

That said, there are still very grey areas where referees are given some 'opinion' on how harsh a penalty to dish out to an offender, and this is where they are shooting themselves in the foot.

My example of this would be Flannagan against Blackburn, he should have been sent off. But the referee, as pointed out on MOTD, probably DID take into account that he had already booked him and the lad is only 18.

So, in the referees mind, he has done us a favour. In the back of his mind, he wants to balance this out, he wants to give Blackburn some leeway if he can, in order for them to get off his back and for balance to be restored in the game. He then will ignore various shouts from us, and ignore some tasty Blackburn challenges, or award a penalty, or whatever, until he feels that the teams are equal.

Of course, in this quest to balance out the game, he's then made 15 bad calls, all because he's not gone by the book and sent off an 18 year old lad.

 

That is, in my opinion, anyway.

 

Of course, there is also intimidation and pressure from Ferguson and such like. Does it bother the refs? Ordinarily, no, but I think the refs definitely look at what has happened to their mates in the past who have crossed Ferguson and lost a very well paid job. If the FA were stronger, or the refereeing body protected their men more, then you may find more of them stand up to public criticism. I'd like to see a referee who was relegated by Ferguson's venom come back and start proceedings for loss of earnings.

[Whelan]

I just wish we could all be like David Moyes and Everton Fans and take bad decisions on the chin!

 

They really do put us to shame you know, I wish we could be more like them!

[Bjornebye]

the standard of referreing is shit right through the game. I got sent of for swearing at goals last week. fucking swearing? Ok I swore at the cunt i'd just sent flying but even so? cunts thew lot of em. video technology would have proved beyond a doubt that the guy on the floor was a cunt. simply because he had a pair of tranmere socks on. easy.

and whats the point in a 4th official if he cant look at a replay quick and tell the ref a) it's a utd penalty or b) hold up numbers scoring young for his dive! it would take as long as it takes for the ref to move the arguing opposition players away, and also cause less bookings for dissent.

[Kennys_spell]

What is the FF's view on it? Are some officials corrupt? Do they lie about who they support as suggested on Twitter? Do the FA request certain officials for certain team's matches? Or, are a lot of them just inept and unable to do their job? Are Dowd, Webb, Mason et al just the best of a very, very bad bunch?

 

There is always that side of it in every decision, inevitably a referee is a human being that at some stage has been a close follower of one football team and then their interests turn from playing to refereeing.

 

But the major part of the bad decisions comes from an uncertainty of what is required of ther referees - by both bully boy Managers and the administrators that run the game. ALL common sense has been removed from the decision making process now and 'how it looks' to the assessor is far more important than getting the right decision.

 

On top of all that I have to say that in over 50 years watching football, this bunch of refererees is the weakest I have ever seen.

[fowler9]

there is no doubt in my mind that Webb cheats for Scum and Mason/Friend do against us, there are probably more who go for/against certain teams as well I just haven't noticed it

[VladimirIlyich]

 

There is always that side of it in every decision, inevitably a referee is a human being that at some stage has been a close follower of one football team and then their interests turn from playing to refereeing.

 

But the major part of the bad decisions comes from an uncertainty of what is required of ther referees - by both bully boy Managers and the administrators that run the game. ALL common sense has been removed from the decision making process now and 'how it looks' to the assessor is far more important than getting the right decision.

 

On top of all that I have to say that in over 50 years watching football, this bunch of refererees is the weakest I have ever seen.

 

Absolutely spot on.

[William Morris]

I thought Micheal Oliver was going to be decent but he's now gone the way of the rest of them.

 

I agree with this and it's a familiar pattern.

Howard Webb initially impressed and probably deserved his reputation as the country's top ref when he 1st got it. It's when they get such accolades the problems start. Whether they start to believe their own hype and act accordingly, or maybe it genuinely is a hard profession to stay at the top of I'm not sure. But the FA themselves become part of the problem when they fail to act on the incompetence of these "top" officials. How bad does Webb (and he is just one example) have to be before they stop allocating them the top matches?

 

I personally doubt there is genuine corruption, though it couldn't be ruled out being as it's turned out to exist in other top European footballing countries, including Germany a few years ago.

Their own ego is most likely the biggest factor in this country, at least in some cases. Look out for the ones with their own websites and their own agent. These will be the ones who think THEY are as big as the players themselves.