Cameron: "Cuts will change our way of life"

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Anyone can take a quote from 2009, as Johann Hari did, and trot it out in late 2010. To pretend that nothing can have happened to change someone's mind in the 15 months between the original statement and the quotemine is fallacious.

 

Interesting. 15 whole months, eh. Why was he warning of riots if the Conservatives got in and 'slashed and burned', just a few weeks before the election. What has changed, other than the deficit being £20bn+ less than predicted?

 

Still, I guess that's just 'pretend'. Might be 'fallacious', too. I guess it's just what you decide it is.

[Strontium]

You're pathetic. That might sound off but if you treat me with so little respect as to trot that shit out to me then that's what you'll get in return. I sometimes feel sorry for you when everyone is piling into you but, you know what, you deserve is for the amount of times you fall back to supine, cowardly shit like this.

 

 

Well why don't you ask fucking Nick Clegg then if you're not happy with the response you get from me? Nick Clegg said a lot of stuff, much of it apparently contradictory. At the same time as that quote in that Hari article (Sep 2009), he was talking about the need for "savage cuts":

 

Bold and even "savage" cuts in government spending will be necessary to bring the public deficit down after the next election, Nick Clegg, the Liberal Democrat leader, says today.

 

As the three main parties begin the conference season with competing proposals for how they would make spending cuts, Clegg used a Guardian interview to set out plans including a long-term freeze in the public sector pay bill, scaling back future public sector pensions, and withdrawing tax credits from the middle class. He is even prepared to examine means-testing universal child benefits, though he is cautious of destroying "middle-class solidarity" with the welfare state.

 

 

So if you're asking me has he gone back on what he was saying back then, the answer is quite clearly not - not based on the above anyway. I have no idea what is meant by the "no serious economist" quote, but that's the thing about quotemines: they're taken out of context and robbed of meaning.

 

I'm sure if you read this thread from start to finish that you are indeed one of those more involved with the topic at hand. You have replied to many posters opinions whilst sticking up in what you believe, however it's pretty obvious to a blind cobbler that you have deliberately selected parts of posts or only posts which fit your agenda.

 

 

I don't have time to respond to everything, and I'm not well placed to respond to a lot of things either. If you ever feel like there's something I missed and should have answered, just pull me up about it.

 

People put those tags in this thread for a reason, if i were you i'd be looking at how i come over myself rather than those adding the tags.

 

 

It's nothing to do with how I come over and all because I'm defending much of what a "Tory" government is doing.

 

Needless to say, people have to be total shithouses about it and instead of saying it to my face, they write these tags. At least I have the guts to put my head above the fucking parapet.

 

So you are prepared to wait around and see what happens rather than listen to those who count...the public who vote you in. You'll make a good politician one day, you have the " fuck you jack i'll feather my own bed " attitude down to a tee.

 

 

I think I'd rather listen to the experts than a few thousand people who've signed a petition, thanks. Of course, on this subject I'm not entirely unknowledgeable myself, since I did study ecology for three years, much of it spent pissing about in forests.

 

Feathering beds, fuck me, that's funny. Most people who are involved with politics are lucky to come out of it at break even. Most of the people involved in this, from all parties, are just trying to serve their communities.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Well why don't you ask fucking Nick Clegg then if you're not happy with the response you get from me? Nick Clegg said a lot of stuff, much of it apparently contradictory. At the same time as that quote in that Hari article (Sep 2009), he was talking about the need for "savage cuts":

 

So if you're asking me has he gone back on what he was saying back then, the answer is quite clearly not - not based on the above anyway. I have no idea what is meant by the "no serious economist" quote, but that's the thing about quotemines: they're taken out of context and robbed of meaning.

 

I'm more interested by what he meant by 'savage cuts'. I think we can both agree, from what he's said in your quote and what he has said after that, that he wasn't meaning anything like the sort of cuts that the Conservatives are leading the charge on. Lib Dems were, there or thereabouts, pretty committed to going forward with the Labour recovery plan - which seemed to be working - right up 'til the election.

 

When I quote Clegg, it's because I agreed with what he said before the election: it is pulling the rug out. He knows it. Cable knows it. I think you know it, even if you request that I take your opinions at face value.

[Stu Monty]

Yeah, I can't quite make out what he means with that quote either, Dog, if only he wasn't so vague and had made a statement that was crystal fucking clear then we'd be more enlightened wouldn't we? If only it were completely obvious that he was pointing out that only someone "out of their depth" would decide to slash investment to core infrastructure at a time of recession, or someone completely ideologically motivated. If only by saying "serious economist" he was clearly stating where the weight of knowledge and sense lay on the issue.

 

And don't make out that I'm pestering you for Nick Clegg's thoughts, I'm not. If you want to post your childlike nonsense about waiting five years and then voting people out then don't be surprised when someone points out it's exactly that. It's three flavours of the same shite and not even the slightly differing promises are going to be kept now.

 

Like I say, keep fucking fiddling, I'm sure Rome will be fine.

[JER]

I note the economy shrunk by 0.5% in the latest figures - looks like Gideon is really following his admiration of the Irish model to the letter.

 

In terms of savage cuts, the Tories led us to believe that it would be waste and scroungers that would be hit - I was talking to a lady last week (whose son has autism and downs, and is in a residential care home) that her mobility allowance has been cut completely - this is her allowance for travel expenses incurred for transporting her son to and from the care home. I would say that denying parents basic human rights is pretty savage.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I note the economy shrunk by 0.5% in the latest figures

 

Yeah, but don't worry it was all due to the 'winter weather'. Phew. I was worried there for a moment. Let's just hope we don't get any more snow, otherwise we'll be facing another recession.

 

Ed Balls is going to come out fighting on this. Osborne has blown his chance to blame this one on Labour after he claimed previous growth was down to him. Although, I wouldn't be shocked if he tried it anyway; reality hasn't hindered them so far, so why now?

[JER]

Yeah, but don't worry it was all due to the 'winter weather'. Phew. I was worried there for a moment. Let's just hope we don't get any more snow, otherwise we'll be facing another recession.

 

Ed Balls is going to come out fighting on this. Osborne has blown his chance to blame this one on Labour after he claimed previous growth was down to him. Although, I wouldn't be shocked if he tried it anyway; reality hasn't hindered them so far, so why now?

 

perfect timing for Balls to make his mark - so glad that he is there doing it, rather than Johnson. The 'get out of jail free card' (AKA the deficit) surely is only good for 6 months. Gideon is about to be found out, big time

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

perfect timing for Balls to make his mark - so glad that he is there doing it, rather than Johnson. The 'get out of jail free card' (AKA the deficit) surely is only good for 6 months. Gideon is about to be found out, big time

 

Still, I guess this will take their scrapping of brand new Nimrods off of the table.

[lifetime fan]

I note the economy shrunk by 0.5% in the latest figures - looks like Gideon is really following his admiration of the Irish model to the letter.

 

In terms of savage cuts, the Tories led us to believe that it would be waste and scroungers that would be hit - I was talking to a lady last week (whose son has autism and downs, and is in a residential care home) that her mobility allowance has been cut completely - this is her allowance for travel expenses incurred for transporting her son to and from the care home. I would say that denying parents basic human rights is pretty savage.

 

I work for the National Autistic Society and some of the cuts are truely shocking.

 

I know one lad who was on high rate disability benefit and mobility benefit. Overnight he was reassessed as low rate disability and lost all mobility allowance.

[Strontium]

I'm more interested by what he meant by 'savage cuts'. I think we can both agree, from what he's said in your quote and what he has said after that, that he wasn't meaning anything like the sort of cuts that the Conservatives are leading the charge on. Lib Dems were, there or thereabouts, pretty committed to going forward with the Labour recovery plan - which seemed to be working - right up 'til the election.

 

When I quote Clegg, it's because I agreed with what he said before the election: it is pulling the rug out. He knows it. Cable knows it. I think you know it, even if you request that I take your opinions at face value.

 

 

I don't "know" it, does anyone really know it? People are just making their best guesses. Government will survive or fall based on results, not predictions of what will happen.

 

What I do know is that Labour planned cuts around 80-90% of what the coalition is doing, so that implies some kind of political consensus - or as Stu puts it, three flavours of the same shite.

 

I note the economy shrunk by 0.5% in the latest figures - looks like Gideon is really following his admiration of the Irish model to the letter.

 

 

Are we really blaming government for the weather now? New levels of desperation being reached here.

 

In terms of savage cuts, the Tories led us to believe that it would be waste and scroungers that would be hit - I was talking to a lady last week (whose son has autism and downs, and is in a residential care home) that her mobility allowance has been cut completely - this is her allowance for travel expenses incurred for transporting her son to and from the care home. I would say that denying parents basic human rights is pretty savage.

 

 

I thought changes to mobility allowance weren't coming in until October 2012? The government is claiming that local authorities should be providing mobility support. I would be surprised if disabled people will be left with literally no means of getting around once this situation is resolved.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I work for the National Autistic Society and some of the cuts are truely shocking.

 

I know one lad who was on high rate disability benefit and mobility benefit. Overnight he was reassessed as low rate disability and lost all mobility allowance.

 

So what? It's Labour's fault. There's no choice to these cuts. They've got to do it because of Labour's 'spend, spend, spend' policy. I've always thought taxes were high enough, so we can't put the cost of this down to those who are the reason for the debt (other than Labour, I mean).

 

Fuck the poor, fuck the disabled, fuck the students, fuck civil servants, fuck hospital staff, fuck the NHS, fuck the defence forces, fuck people who want to walk in the forest. Fuck the lot of you.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

 

What I do know is that Labour planned cuts around 80-90% of what the coalition is doing, so that implies some kind of political consensus - or as Stu puts it, three flavours of the same shite.

 

What's your source for 80-90%? Different cuts, over a different time-table, leading to half of the deficit reduction that has been planned by the coalition.

 

Are we really blaming government for the weather now? New levels of desperation being reached here.

 

Well, I certainly agree with the latter.

[lifetime fan]

So what? It's Labour's fault. There's no choice to these cuts. They've got to do it because of Labour's 'spend, spend, spend' policy. I've always thought taxes were high enough, so we can't put the cost of this down to those who are the reason for the debt (other than Labour, I mean).

 

Fuck the poor, fuck the disabled, fuck the students, fuck civil servants, fuck hospital staff, fuck the NHS, fuck the defence forces, fuck people who want to walk in the forest. Fuck the lot of you.

 

There had been absolutely no change in this lads level of need, yet over night he is assessed as being of far less support than is necessary.

 

Do the fucking idiots in charge not realise people have a level of support they require to avoid crisis? Or are we going to strip them of desperately needed support and pay twice as much 6 months later when they are in crisis and need double the support.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

 

Do the fucking idiots in charge not realise people have a level of support they require to avoid crisis?

 

They realise it. They know full well.

[lifetime fan]

They realise it. They know full well.

 

This is what scares me the most.

 

I can get my head around not wanting to spend money on the oiks, completely disagree with it mind, but can see where they are coming from with their fucked up, twisted logic.

 

What I can not understand is making such drastic cuts without even attempting to gain a degree of understanding, that in the long run will mean in a lot of cases their 'ideological' bullshit will mean the oiks will cost them even more.

[JER]

I thought changes to mobility allowance weren't coming in until October 2012? .

 

In october 2012, I'm pretty sure her son will still have autism and downs

 

The government is claiming that local authorities should be providing mobility support.

 

How? They are cutting their funding, and expect them to offer more? That's some pretty amazing fucking magic trick

 

I would be surprised if disabled people will be left with literally no means of getting around once this situation is resolved

 

Yeah, but David Cameron doesn't think it's the government's job to do, well pretty much anything (yet he still wants you to pay the same amount of taxes, funny that) Fine, if like Cameron, you have a disabled son and £30m in the bank, but for most families I really think they will be screwed.

[lifetime fan]

In october 2012, I'm pretty sure her son will still have autism and downs

 

 

 

How? They are cutting their funding, and expect them to offer more? That's some pretty amazing fucking magic trick

 

 

 

Yeah, but David Cameron doesn't think it's the government's job to do, well pretty much anything (yet he still wants you to pay the same amount of taxes, funny that) Fine, if like Cameron, you have a disabled son and £30m in the bank, but for most families I really think they will be screwed.

 

Mobility funding has started to be cut already mate.

 

But the tories and fake libs wouldn't lie would they? Shirley?

[Strontium]

What's your source for 80-90%? Different cuts, over a different time-table, leading to half of the deficit reduction that has been planned by the coalition.

 

 

Coalition plans are £80bn cuts over 5 years

Labour plans were £70bn cuts and £10bn tax rises over 8 years

 

So according to Labour, somewhere between £70bn and £80bn, and 5 years and 8 years, lies the dividing line between ideologically-driven destruction of the state and sensible cutbacks. I'll be buggered if I know where that line is supposed to be.

 

Well, I certainly agree with the latter.

 

 

Britain literally ground to a standstill in December. I'm shocked the economy only contracted by a (predicted) 0.5%. It was taking me personally more than a fortnight to get recorded delivery parcels from one side of the country to the other, how is that not going to have an effect on our industries which rely on being able to get stuff from A to B?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Coalition plans are £80bn cuts over 5 years

Labour plans were £70bn cuts and £10bn tax rises over 8 years

 

So according to Labour, somewhere between £70bn and £80bn, and 5 years and 8 years, lies the dividing line between ideologically-driven destruction of the state and sensible cutbacks. I'll be buggered if I know where that line is supposed to be.

 

Please tell me you see the difference between the two sets of proposals, Stronts.

 

I'm shocked the economy only contracted by a (predicted) 0.5%.

 

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about when I say that you're living in your own world.

[RedRoadEnd]

When I see that weazely homosexual fop Cameron on tv, I'm ashamed to be part of Britain.

Change "OUR" way of life? Fuck off and die Cameron.

Politics is a joke, the freaks in it are largely a joke.

And why is that? Because people grovel and arselick to them like deferential gimps.

[dennis tooth]

Expect more of this sort of stuff on all fronts, NHS etc, now we find what I predicted again to be coming to pass. Privatisation of services means public money used to fund services now leak or flood private company profits and cost the government, or us, more for less and less every year to sustain 'growth' of the private sector so they charge more and more and cut more and more to profit more and more, never mind what they are teaching your kids but the good news is it doesn't matter anyway as theres no jobs, they'll alll be in the army recruitment centre or mcDonalds or some service job serving the rich, unless they have the money to pay big tuition fees of course, then the world is their oyster.

 

Meanwhile our taxes can be wasted on the private sector, the 'waste' they speak of is the stuff they spend on society to make it better for the people, not what we would describe as waste which is us subsidising a private company overcharging us and making a fat profit for theyselves while reducing quality and staff. It's happend with the prison services, they can't even account for what they spent since privatisation of services infected them with outsourcers disease, the NHS will be the same once these Labour-inspired proposals take place.

 

Academies growth 'leaves councils £350m out of pocket'

Pupil with teacher All schools can now apply for academy status

 

Local councils in England claim they are losing millions of pounds to allow the government to pay for schools to convert to academy status.

 

Their grants are being cut because these privately-run but state-funded schools will not use the services councils provide to state schools.

 

The Local Government Association claims ministers are reducing council grants by £350m more than they will save.

 

The government said the double funding of services was not sustainable.

 

Local education authorities face cuts of £413m over the next two years tied to the expansion in the academies programme.

 

However, Department for Education figures suggest they will only save a maximum of £60m from the changes if 200 schools convert to academy status each year.

Continue reading the main story

“Start Quote

 

It cannot be fair for local taxpayers to subsidise the roll-out of the academies programme”

 

End Quote Baroness Margaret Eaton LGA chairman

 

This would leave them about £350m out of pocket, says the LGA.

 

Its chairman Baroness Margaret Eaton said: "We have made it clear that school choice is something that councils support. But it cannot be fair for local taxpayers to subsidise the roll-out of the academies programme.

 

"As it stands, councils face a bill of £413m at a time when their budgets are already facing an unprecedented squeeze.

 

"This is unacceptable when the saving from not having to provide central services to academies is less than one seventh of that amount.

 

"Whatever you think of academies, it cannot be right that other frontline services suffer so that the government's academies programme can flourish."

 

She called on the government to think again about how it pays for academies to be set up.

'Top slice'

 

The claims were supported by the F40 group, which campaigns for fairer funding of education.

 

Its chief executive Gillian Hayward, who chairs the Gloucestershire Schools Forum, suggested the additional money for academies was being "top-sliced from the money which should be available for all schools".

 

She added: "Such practice would also be at odds with government indications that there should be no financial incentive or disincentive to a school becoming an academy.

 

"Executive members of F40 believe that there is now a significant financial advantage to academy conversion, and that this is unfair to the entire education sector and in particular to low-funded local authorities and the schools in them."

 

A Department for Education spokesman said: "Previously local authorities did not lose funding for certain services when schools under their charge became directly funded academies.

 

"This meant that there could effectively be double funding for some services. Clearly this situation represented poor value for money and was not sustainable in the current fiscal climate."

 

He added that funds were being deducted from council grants to address this.

 

He said it was not possible to say precisely which schools in which local authorities would convert to academy status, so it was not practical to target the reductions at individual local authorities, "and therefore a national top slice has been applied".

 

"This means that all local authorities will have certainty over the funding they will receive over the period and will not see unpredictable changes because of variable patterns in the growth of the academy sector."

 

Chris Keates, general secretary of the Nasuwt teaching union, said local authorities were being financially crippled and "the whole school system sacrificed for an ideologically-driven strategy".

 

She added: "Taxpayers should be outraged at the amount of money being poured into academy schools which do not, according to international evidence, improve academic standards, and will only lead to division and segregation."

[dennis tooth]

Coalition plans are £80bn cuts over 5 years

Labour plans were £70bn cuts and £10bn tax rises over 8 years

 

So according to Labour, somewhere between £70bn and £80bn, and 5 years and 8 years, lies the dividing line between ideologically-driven destruction of the state and sensible cutbacks. I'll be buggered if I know where that line is supposed to be.

 

Sd I think you should be clearing up on this subject, NN can't cope with cold hard facts with regard to what Labour would have done, cut that blind mouses tail off, see how he runs. Please tell him you see the difference, as he's made another cack hand as this and he has nothing more to offer.

Anytime you do, notice how evasive he gets!

[JER]

 

I 'm with (staunch tory) Gary Barlow on this one

 

Your promises have never been anything you made them seem

So what you gonna promise me this time

You're telling lies so plain to see

You're trying to make a fool of me

So what you gonna promise me this time

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Sd I think you should be clearing up on this subject, NN can't cope with cold hard facts with regard to what Labour would have done, cut that blind mouses tail off, see how he runs. Please tell him you see the difference, as he's made another cack hand as this and he has nothing more to offer.

Anytime you do, notice how evasive he gets!

 

Negged for continually mentioning me. Sad case.

[dennis tooth]

Negged for continually mentioning me. Sad case.

 

Sadder than negging someone supposed to be on your ignore list?

 

Great stuff, I see you are reading my posts and being riled by them. On average I get about 1 rep per day so keep negging but please do it more often if you want to make any kind of impact, I'm fresh and green, like Sarah Green only with more green in it.

 

Sadly I wasn't talking to you I was talking about you. In this case you were sensitive to my remarks because they were true as only when I hit a nerve do you resort to your negs, again, job done. So I isn't sad I is happy.

 

Try explaining away the tax avoiding Guardian you support then press the enter key.