Insua/Lucas!!!!

[old skool tom]

Like Lucas?

 

i dont agree.lucas wastes possesion and cant tackle at all.he makes that ginger manc look like bobby moore when it comes to tackling haha

[old skool tom]

Are you not bored yet?

You spending your time on here because you sister isn't giving you any at the moment?

Go back to red cafe you twat.

 

 

your the worst kind of red! cant mention a manc player without you crying like a fucking bell end so that means someones a manc! meet me for a bevy in the cabbage,willow or lute on breck were i live and call me a manc too me face then we'll see whos not scouse ok fella?

[the walsh]

lucas is simply not good enough but we have aqualani to come in to that team so lucas can go back to being at bite part player skrtel worries me at the moment jumping into tackles givimg away silly free kicks the sooner agger is back fit. id have him beside carragher insua is decent but he is no evra clichy or cole i would like to see us improve.

in that area.

[The Dude Abides]

Skrtel worries people? Well then what the fuck must they be thinking about Carra? Skrtel's gives away frees, but he does in the right areas, generally just inside our half and he when he does it he's usually breaking up a counter attack.

 

Insua has been fantastic for us for much of the season. And for some reason people still have a hard time wrapping their simple minds around the fact that when full backs go forward, shock horror, there is going to be holes left. And it's up to the likes of Masch, Lucas, Carra and Skrtel to be seeing those holes opening up and plugging them.

[Nomad]

I can understand what people are saying about Carra/Skirtel partnership as it worrys the fuck out of me when someone of pace gets near.

 

But what could rafa have done. Agger was injured. Yes he could of played the greek but if that failed he would of got slated even more then keeping Carra/Skirtel on the pitch.

 

Insua has hardly played bad at all apart from the Fiorentena game so im not ready to judge him, yes maybe aurello should have played LB but thats rafas choice. I would take Insua over Dossana any time.

 

EDIT: Is the Greek even in the CL sqaud?

[jaris mullet]

ok, the injury thing COULD be a bit too much.Hoever, if he doent get dropped for, giving the ball away over and over and OVER again, stupid tackles,giving away penos,being slow, having NO nooooooo goalscoring ability, how else will he get dropped.

 

Was i the only one who saw the leeds game and saw twice the player in spearo?

 

You just KNOW carra winces when he passes lucas the ball (and watch close kids, he doesnt if he can avoid it...)

 

FUCK OFF LUCAS please!

[RedBrian84]

ok, the injury thing COULD be a bit too much.Hoever, if he doent get dropped for, giving the ball away over and over and OVER again, stupid tackles,giving away penos,being slow, having NO nooooooo goalscoring ability, how else will he get dropped.

 

Was i the only one who saw the leeds game and saw twice the player in spearo?

You just KNOW carra winces when he passes lucas the ball (and watch close kids, he doesnt if he can avoid it...)

 

FUCK OFF LUCAS please!

 

 

Spearing struggled at times against Leeds; he even said so himself. I was made up to see him get a full 90 minutes, but at times the game just passed him by. He'll get better with time, but he just isn't as good as Lucas. For Christ's sake you don't get to be Brazil's young player of the year if you are no good.

 

Take off the rose tinted glasses about Spearing. I love the lad too and want him to be a success but he isn't ready yet. Ask yourself this: if Lucas was a local lad and product of the youth setup, would you be demanding his head in the same manner? No, you wouldn't.

 

All of this is insignificant anyway, since whatever any of us think about Lucas, Rafa clearly favours him and will keep playing him. He has improved immeasurably this season and long may that continue.

[RedBrian84]

You'll probably get a lot of stick for this but i agree, Liverpool fans overrate mediocrity.

 

1. Skrtel has never impressed me and for some reason people think he is hard - not at all. He cant pass, head and is so naive in the tackle it's beyond belief. Agger is a better player!

 

2. Insua is a decent full back but not good enough to start, as you said his final ball is woeful and he got destroyed by an average right midfielder.

 

3. Lucas is crap everyone knows it, it has got to the point that when he performs decently people proclaim that he was excellent. He wouldn't get near Manu, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs central midfields - squaddie at best.

 

4. For all Kuyt workrate and ability to get vital goals, he too often offers nothing in the terms of penetration, he can't beat men and this is why Johnson is forced to attack even more. that coupled with no pace and poor ball control makes him a very frustrating player. Babel may not get the goals but when he has been on the right of late he has offered more than Kuyt in terms of getting assists or pushing the full back back.

 

However, i believe we will give Chelsea a good game but Rafa needs to see the deficiences eventually in these players and make the step up.

 

 

Liverpool fans do not overrate mediocrity. What you're getting confused with is that we show patience and generally get behind our players not matter what their apparent ability levels.

 

About your four points, I gues I have to disagree with pretty much all of them:

 

1: Skrtel is an established international centre back, who is young and learning. Yes, he frustrates me with some of his decision making but he is only 23. How many world class centre backs do you know who are 23? He is strong- a lot more so than Agger. But comparing them is missing the point. They are both different kinds of player who seem destined to be our first choice centre backs in the coming seasons.

 

2: Insua is probably the best young full back we've had at the club in some time. He too, like Skrtel, is learning his trade. Yes, his crossing needs work but that will come. He is aggressive, committed and shows maturity beyond his years.

 

3: Lucas is not crap. Please get off that bandwagon. It's easy to slate the lad isn't it? As for not being good enough to play for any of the other sides, I couldn't give a shit about any of them. Rafa will keep playing Lucas because he too is only concerned with his own side. For me, Lucas is getting better and I hope it continues.

 

4: Dirk is fantastic and a shining example of how hard work, commitment and determination can overcome apparent lack of technical ability. You'd favour replacing him with Babel? Fucking hell. Kuyt scores important goals and works damn hard and never gets the credit he deserves.

[El Rojo]

I don't get the slating of Skrtel. Granted he's not playing well, but Carra's hardly covering himself in glory either. They were a quality partnership last year, they'll reach that peak again soon.

 

People moan about his borderline tackles and shoves, but he's very rarely given away a penalty or free kick in a dangerous position. And as someone else stated, 23 is very young for a defender. He still has loads to learn, but he's been great value so far.

 

And as a reminder in the week that's in it, he was brilliant against Drogba in the league last year.

[Byrnie]

your the worst kind of red! cant mention a manc player without you crying like a fucking bell end so that means someones a manc! meet me for a bevy in the cabbage,willow or lute on breck were i live and call me a manc too me face then we'll see whos not scouse ok fella?

 

Don't make me laugh.

It's not the mentioning of a particular manc player it's you being critical of Liverpool players constantly.

 

That makes you the worst kind of red in my opinion.

 

Also what's with the "Fergie" business? Don't get that at all.

And comparing this player or that player to players of the other top 4 teams.Oh he wouldn't get a game for Man U or he wouldn't get a game for Arsenal.

 

 

I wouldn't be one for arranging meetings with bell ends on the internet myself,but what ever your into i guess.

Edited October 1, 2009 by byrnie

[old skool tom]

Don't make me laugh.

It's not the mentioning of a particular manc player it's you being critical of Liverpool players constantly.

 

That makes you the worst kind of red in my opinion.

 

Also what's with the "Fergie" business? Don't get that at all.

And comparing this player or that player to players of the other top 4 teams.Oh he wouldn't get a game for Man U or he wouldn't get a game for Arsenal.

 

 

I wouldn't be one for arranging meetings with bell ends on the internet myself,but what ever your into i guess.

 

 

looking back,i do admit that ive criticised 75% of the time and tbh youve maybe me question why that is.this is my answer why i'm more negative -

 

i'm having major doubts about rafa.the yanks are twats but i dont know if he's good enough anyway.hate to say it but its how i feel.

 

 

1)the constant selection (and none transfer) of lucas by rafa has got on my tits for too long now.he's not good enough by a long way to play for liverpool fc.how can he not see this? its got too the point now that i cant watch us without screamin like tim howard "fuck,fuck,shit,he's shit,kill lucas ,cunt,fuckshit.brazilian,shite" for 90 mins.if i'm doing your head in? imagine how the fuck i feel! haha

 

2)he's been here 5 years and weve got ONE proven quality striker on the books! is that acceptable?

 

3)i fear he's too rigid/negative too "win" the league.making subs at the same time every game is ridiculous.fuck sports science! go with your instincts rafa! when we were in the lead last year he blew it and cost us big time because he tried to scrape over the line with 1-0 wins.when we had nothing to lose he let the players "off the leash" as gerrard said and we were superb.

 

3)we only need a midfield with one DM to win the premiere league not two.plus when kuyt plays wide,he's also a like defensive midfielder.surely we should be playing with two wide players with the ability to go past men with pace and create/score.kuyt gives it everything but hes not a good finisher (thats why he got moved from playing up top,remember?) and the attacks always stop /slow down when he gets the ball.babels no john barnes but at least he beats men and throws in some decent crosses.every red likes kuyt! but that doesnt mean he should be anything more than a back up utility player.

 

theres a lot more but i'm starving and need to hit sayers like bellamy needs to hit a man-ure!

 

ok youve convinced me.i'm gonna try and be more upbeat and put my fears of rafas inadequacies on hold.

Edited October 1, 2009 by old skool tom

[rargh]

Fucking hell, Momo's got more aliases than Mick Foley in this thread!

[WhiskeyJar]

Lucas lucas, bloody lucas. i cant stand him. ive time for insua, but lucas is awful.the amount of people on this site who just defend him cos he plays for us is unbelievable.OPEN YOUR EYES.he could get into the newcastle midfield.its ok tyo realise hes NOT GOOD ENOUGH. no where near in fact.

i support rafa, and want him to do well, but hes SO stubborn when it comes to the talentless brazilian it beggars belief.

i dont like to wish injury on anyone,esp a liverpool player but id say there would be a instant fistpump reaction if he go fucked up.

jay spearing.twice the player,3 times the heart, but wont get his chance.

please for the love of the baby jebus FUCK OFF LUCAS

 

THATS IT.

 

Listen up you ignorant blind wind up mole, Lucas is improving and is actually helping out the team in every situation, from defending to attacking and everything in between. Fact is he is supported by our fans finally somewhat and has the team backing him everyway.

 

Fact is you cant see the good work he does which means you know fuck all about football. In more times than I care to count, he passes the ball and then makes attacking runs to open space for the build up. It happens when we are making a few good passes which create a good chance. Also see his bullet header against Fiorentina the run and the space he create whilst keeping an eye for the ball.

 

He is underestimated and in my view only Aquilani can keep out of the side when we need a pure attacking mid.

 

Lucas will only get better and so far Rafa has been justified in allowing him to learn his trade.

 

Now back in your hole.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

If Rafa somehow managed to win the league with these 2 as regular feature's then the man should go down in history as a TRUE miracle worker........throw in kuyt as well for good measure.

 

 

God help us on Sunday

You're right.

 

Liverpool are shite. Everyone who plays for Liverpool is shite. Everyone else is great.

 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................

[darnells]

Liverpool fans do not overrate mediocrity. What you're getting confused with is that we show patience and generally get behind our players not matter what their apparent ability levels.

 

About your four points, I gues I have to disagree with pretty much all of them:

 

1: Skrtel is an established international centre back, who is young and learning. Yes, he frustrates me with some of his decision making but he is only 23. How many world class centre backs do you know who are 23? He is strong- a lot more so than Agger. But comparing them is missing the point. They are both different kinds of player who seem destined to be our first choice centre backs in the coming seasons.

 

2: Insua is probably the best young full back we've had at the club in some time. He too, like Skrtel, is learning his trade. Yes, his crossing needs work but that will come. He is aggressive, committed and shows maturity beyond his years.

 

3: Lucas is not crap. Please get off that bandwagon. It's easy to slate the lad isn't it? As for not being good enough to play for any of the other sides, I couldn't give a shit about any of them. Rafa will keep playing Lucas because he too is only concerned with his own side. For me, Lucas is getting better and I hope it continues.

 

4: Dirk is fantastic and a shining example of how hard work, commitment and determination can overcome apparent lack of technical ability. You'd favour replacing him with Babel? Fucking hell. Kuyt scores important goals and works damn hard and never gets the credit he deserves.

 

I disagree, if many of the players abovementioned played for other sides, they would not be rated highly at all.

 

1 Skrtel is an established centreback for Slovakia!!! - they have a talented crop of players to pick from, don't they? Besides that, Heinze is an international centreback - so what's your point? I am sure he will improve with age but my gripe is that he is average at best - i dont think he is a particularly good defender and the only people that rate him are some Reds. As i said, he can't head yet he is 6'4, his passing is abysmal and he fouls all the time. Agger and him may be different but there didn't seem to be a problem when Agger partnered Carragher so my point is get Agger into the team for Martin.

 

2. Insua is learning the trade, i agree, that's why he needs to be eased in, and i am sure Aurelio will be the number 1 soon again. But i doubt Insua will develop into anything but a decent fullback - not enough pace for my liking.

 

3 Lucas is crap, everyone knows it - mediocre player - adds little to nothing.

 

4. Kuyt has all those qualities but they only get you so far and in many matches he can look ineffective and we consequently look impotent down the right unless Johnson is up there. Babel has his issues but look at the cameos against West Ham and Fiorentina he beat the full backs and put in a crosses. Kuyt didn't get behind the fullback all game. I am not saying he doesn't have his worth but he poses little to no threat, the odd goal doesn't justify him being a regular for me.

 

Now for the patience comment you made! All the above players have been with us for 2 or more seasons - so how long will you wait!

 

Kuyt will never develop control or speed, Lucas had had 70 plus matches to impress yet he has had may be 3 good games and 5 average ones, which Rafa and some have chosen to describe as excellent. I wonder what superlatives they must use for Gerrard and Torres then? Skrtel has never impressed against top forwards in my book.

[Royal Family]

I don't get the slating of Skrtel. Granted he's not playing well, but Carra's hardly covering himself in glory either. They were a quality partnership last year, they'll reach that peak again soon.

 

People moan about his borderline tackles and shoves, but he's very rarely given away a penalty or free kick in a dangerous position. And as someone else stated, 23 is very young for a defender. He still has loads to learn, but he's been great value so far.

 

And as a reminder in the week that's in it, he was brilliant against Drogba in the league last year.

 

Skrtel will be 25 in December - you can't get away with the 'inexperienced' argument with him. As i have said before, he's a £6m defender who plays exactly like a £6m defender. No way can I see him as a long-term answer.

Likewise Lucas will be 23 in january - again, getting beyond the 'promising youngster' stage. He's shown nowhere near the progress or development that Alonso or Sissoko or Mascherano had at that age.

 

The poster who said that Liverpool fans too often celebrate mediocrity is quite right. I can't think of another top club where players like Igor Biscan (who is an upgrade on Lucas) or titi Camara would get celebrated as cult-heroes.

[WhiskeyJar]

Skrtel will be 25 in December - you can't get away with the 'inexperienced' argument with him. As i have said before, he's a £6m defender who plays exactly like a £6m defender. No way can I see him as a long-term answer.

Likewise Lucas will be 23 in january - again, getting beyond the 'promising youngster' stage. He's shown nowhere near the progress or development that Alonso or Sissoko or Mascherano had at that age.

 

The poster who said that Liverpool fans too often celebrate mediocrity is quite right. I can't think of another top club where players like Igor Biscan (who is an upgrade on Lucas) or titi Camara would get celebrated as cult-heroes.

 

Chirst on a bike.

 

Skrtel is still learning, incosistent as he maybe he has genuine quality and will become a great defender. Hard as nails in the air and rock solid in the ground, the only problem is that he loses focus somethimes. Hell it happens, but that can be fixed and he has got talent.

 

Fact is we are not celebrating mediocre players, we are celebrating the evolution of young players into superstars and some of our fans just dont have the patience any more to watch young guns grow.

[Red Banjo]

Chirst on a bike.

 

Skrtel is still learning, incosistent as he maybe he has genuine quality and will become a great defender. Hard as nails in the air and rock solid in the ground, the only problem is that he loses focus somethimes. Hell it happens, but that can be fixed and he has got talent.

 

Fact is we are not celebrating mediocre players, we are celebrating the evolution of young players into superstars and some of our fans just dont have the patience any more to watch young guns grow.

 

Whilst i agree with most of what your saying here mate - its not that we dont have the patience to watch talent blossom, its just were not seeing enough to suggest they are as good as what they should be. We are not a club who should be harbouring average or 'potentially good' players, we are Liverpool FC and we should be winning trophies, for that to happen we need players good enough to compete, and as it stands right now - were behind some of our rivals. But thats the nature of the game and the responsibilty of the players in question to prove the doubters wrong. As for the emphasis of the 'patience' argument - we have been waiting 20 years to win back the title - so you can forgive some fans for not having as much patience as what maybe we should, but our dear friends down the M62 are coming mighty close to eclipsing our title winning record and that is up to us to prevent. Now.

[Royal Family]

Chirst on a bike.

 

Skrtel is still learning, incosistent as he maybe he has genuine quality and will become a great defender. Hard as nails in the air and rock solid in the ground, the only problem is that he loses focus somethimes. Hell it happens, but that can be fixed and he has got talent.

 

Fact is we are not celebrating mediocre players, we are celebrating the evolution of young players into superstars and some of our fans just dont have the patience any more to watch young guns grow.

 

The point about him being nearly 25 was in reply to the unchallenged claim that he is a mere 23.

 

Secondly, I'm afraid your comment reinforces my point about failing to judge our players objectively. Under no possible definition is Martin "hard as nails in the air". That's simply unsustainable. He's actually poor in the air for a centreback, as anyone who attends or watches our games is all too aware, especially for one who is 6foot4. It's not about patience - as in the case of Lucas, just how long and how many games does one have to wait before one simply accepts that a player hasn't got what it takes? Until he's 35?

[DomL]

The only problem with the two defenders is the pairing itself they are both very similar in their marking and attitude towards defending normally you have a real balance between a defence, i can remember skrtel was excellent last year with Hyppia because they complemented each other.

 

For me Skrtel is a fantastic defender who just needs a partner he can feel comfortable with, if Agger can be a leader in our back line him and skrtel will certainly be our future, i think many people will be surprised how far skrtel will come when he isnt paired but with Carra.

[Delmar]

It's not about patience - as in the case of Lucas, just how long and how many games does one have to wait before one simply accepts that a player hasn't got what it takes? Until he's 35?

 

Longer than you are giving, and not until 35, if that helps any... It is exactly about patience as far as the fans are concerned. The only person who cannot afford the patience is the manager, as it is his job that is on the line. If the manager is worth anything, even he has a lot of patience with his players.

[Mathewbet1]

I thought Skrtle was great last season, I doubt hes gone shit overnight. He's had a few injuries ect and looks to be lacking confidence as is the defence as a whole. I do agree however hes not as aerially dominant enough for someone his size and height. I think Agger will come in when he is fit if Skrtle does not show some improvment soon.

[sir roger]

I think one reason for the poor link up between Carra & Skrtel is that they are both by nature right-sided central defenders & while it is never really mentioned as important by commentators , anybody who has ever played in central defence at any level will know that it makes a big difference. They quite often end up going for the same balls on crosses etc.& the sooner we have Agger in the mix the better.

 

Terry has been shocking for England recently as he plays to the right with Lescott or Upson rather than his preferred position to the left with Ferdinand to his right.

[Byrnie]

I think one reason for the poor link up between Carra & Skrtel is that they are both by nature right-sided central defenders & while it is never really mentioned as important by commentators , anybody who has ever played in central defence at any level will know that it makes a big difference. They quite often end up going for the same balls on crosses etc.& the sooner we have Agger in the mix the better.

 

Terry has been shocking for England recently as he plays to the right with Lescott or Upson rather than his preferred position to the left with Ferdinand to his right.

 

Don't really agree with that,Terry is right footed.

Hansen/Lawrenson,

Sami/Carra,

Sami/Henchoz,

Yeats/Smith,

 

These were all right footed as far as i know,but i do agree that it gives far better balance having a natural left footed player in at CB.

[sir roger]

Don't really agree with that,Terry is right footed.

Hansen/Lawrenson,

Sami/Carra,

Sami/Henchoz,

Yeats/Smith,

 

These were all right footed as far as i know,but i do agree that it gives far better balance having a natural left footed player in at CB.

 

It's not the foot you kick with though Byrnie , its where you have played through all/most of your career & getting used to the different angles on the pitch & which foot most of your tackles will be with for instance.

 

As you have pointed out for instance Sami was right-footed but always played to the left of Carra & it is very awkward for Carra to suddenly move across after so many years where he could probably position himself in his sleep.

 

Exactly the opposite with Terry moving to the right.