Shopkeeper, 72, shoots 4 robbers

[3 Colours Red]

The quietly spoken store owner is being hailed as a hero in Harlem, New York, for turning the tables on the robbers. Police said he would not face any charges.

Although the shotgun was not registered, under New York law someone is allowed to use deadly force if they feel their life is in imminent danger.

Mr Augusto, who bought the shotgun 30 years ago after another robbery attempt, said he was left with no choice but to open fire.

'I told this kid, "We don't have any money",' Mr Augusto said.

'I asked him, "Why don't you just put your gun down and go home and we'll forget about this thing? Someone's gonna get hurt. There's no money - you're gonna get in trouble. You're wasting your time."

'I would have been happy if they'd all run out the door. I'm sick to my stomach over it.

'I'm sad I couldn't talk them out of it. I'm sad there's mothers and fathers with no sons today.

'I haven't done anything wrong. I'm sitting here minding my own business and they come in with guns. I don't feel like a hero. I would have felt like a hero if I could have talked that kid into going home.'

He added: 'I'm sorry they're dead but they didn't give me any other choice.'

Enlarge Police surround the body of one of two robbery suspects killed by Mr Augusto

The failed robbery took place at his restaurant supply company in Harlem. Mr Augusto was inside the store with two employees, a 33-year-old man identified as JB and a 47-year-old woman.

The four robbers - aged from 21 to 29 - burst in and demanded cash. One was armed with a pistol and they carried plastic handcuffs.

Police said Mr Augusto made it clear there was no money on the premises, which led to one of the robbers to start to pistol whip JB.

Mr Augusto, who was 20 to 30ft away, whipped out the shotgun and fired three times.

James Morgan, 29, died instantly. A gun was found near his body slumped in the doorway of the store.

His accomplice Raylin Footman, 21, died later in hospital from shotgun wounds to his back.

The two other suspects, Bernard Witherspoon, 21, and Shamel Cloud, 21, were caught after police followed a bloody trail from the store.

Witnesses said JB stood over the dead robber screaming: 'You're dead! You're dead!'

He later told police a gun had been held to his head.

Police sources said Footman, one of the victims, had previously been arrested for robbery and weapons charges. The other three robbers were also known to police.

Harlem residents praised Mr Augusto for his actions.

Gene Hernandez, 47, said: 'I would kill a dozen of them. You have to protect your family and workers. Case closed.'

Stefany Blyn, who rents a space above the store from Mr Augusto, said: 'He's been robbed before, so I'm not totally amazed.'

Police said charges are pending against the two injured suspects.

 

Daily Mail 15/08/2009

 

Reading this story, I thought it was inconceivable that he would not face some charges if the same happened in this country. There seems to be a greater appetite here for clamping down on any use of self defence which may be deemed excessive. Not sure if this comes from ordinary police or more likely senior figures/CPS.

[Charles Penrose]

Bernhard Goetz style.

 

Boom.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

 

Reading this story, I thought it was inconceivable that he would not face some charges if the same happened in this country.

 

We have very reasonable laws here regarding self-defence.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

nice one. at the end of the day, if you try to pull off an ARMED robbery, you deserve everything you get. its as simple as that.

[Flying Pig]

They got four free bullets. Sounds like a bargain to me.

[Section_31]

Black Caesar

 

[Stu Monty]

The quietly spoken store owner is being hailed as a hero in Harlem, New York, for turning the tables on the robbers. Police said he would not face any charges.

Although the shotgun was not registered, under New York law someone is allowed to use deadly force if they feel their life is in imminent danger.

Mr Augusto, who bought the shotgun 30 years ago after another robbery attempt, said he was left with no choice but to open fire.

'I told this kid, "We don't have any money",' Mr Augusto said.

'I asked him, "Why don't you just put your gun down and go home and we'll forget about this thing? Someone's gonna get hurt. There's no money - you're gonna get in trouble. You're wasting your time."

'I would have been happy if they'd all run out the door. I'm sick to my stomach over it.

'I'm sad I couldn't talk them out of it. I'm sad there's mothers and fathers with no sons today.

'I haven't done anything wrong. I'm sitting here minding my own business and they come in with guns. I don't feel like a hero. I would have felt like a hero if I could have talked that kid into going home.'

He added: 'I'm sorry they're dead but they didn't give me any other choice.'

Enlarge Police surround the body of one of two robbery suspects killed by Mr Augusto

The failed robbery took place at his restaurant supply company in Harlem. Mr Augusto was inside the store with two employees, a 33-year-old man identified as JB and a 47-year-old woman.

The four robbers - aged from 21 to 29 - burst in and demanded cash. One was armed with a pistol and they carried plastic handcuffs.

Police said Mr Augusto made it clear there was no money on the premises, which led to one of the robbers to start to pistol whip JB.

Mr Augusto, who was 20 to 30ft away, whipped out the shotgun and fired three times.

James Morgan, 29, died instantly. A gun was found near his body slumped in the doorway of the store.

His accomplice Raylin Footman, 21, died later in hospital from shotgun wounds to his back.

The two other suspects, Bernard Witherspoon, 21, and Shamel Cloud, 21, were caught after police followed a bloody trail from the store.

Witnesses said JB stood over the dead robber screaming: 'You're dead! You're dead!'

He later told police a gun had been held to his head.

Police sources said Footman, one of the victims, had previously been arrested for robbery and weapons charges. The other three robbers were also known to police.

Harlem residents praised Mr Augusto for his actions.

Gene Hernandez, 47, said: 'I would kill a dozen of them. You have to protect your family and workers. Case closed.'

Stefany Blyn, who rents a space above the store from Mr Augusto, said: 'He's been robbed before, so I'm not totally amazed.'

Police said charges are pending against the two injured suspects.

 

Daily Mail 15/08/2009

 

Reading this story, I thought it was inconceivable that he would not face some charges if the same happened in this country. There seems to be a greater appetite here for clamping down on any use of self defence which may be deemed excessive. Not sure if this comes from ordinary police or more likely senior figures/CPS.

 

That's the point though, isn't it, if it's excessive then it should be clamped down on. Shooting armed robbers isn't excessive. Hiding under your stairs and shooting kids in the back as they try and run away is excessive. I reckon that in 99% of cases that we don't hear about the law probably leans towards a common sense resolution of things. It's the 1% where someone defending themselves gets more shit than they deserve that we hear about.

[Guest davelfc]

Sad that people had to die but totally support the store owner. In our mad country he would have been sent to prison probably.

 

I wish we could shoot people that broke in to our homes, I'd leave all the windows open and become nocturnal.

[Newport]

In cinemas soon starring either Morgan Freeman or Clint Eastwood...

[Guest ShoePiss]

Sad that people had to die but totally support the store owner. In our mad country he would have been sent to prison probably.

 

I wish we could shoot people that broke in to our homes, I'd leave all the windows open and become nocturnal.

 

You want to shoot people? That fella clearly didn't (according statements in the article) and doesn't feel good about it, I bet you'd feel the same way as him.

 

Interesting that one of the robbers died from shotgun wounds to his back though...

[ReddOrDedd]

They got four free bullets. Sounds like a bargain to me.

 

 

 

Would it be unreasonable to send their families an invoice for a new box of cartridges?

[Antynwa]

LEGEMND LEGEND LEGEND

[Strontium]

You want to shoot people? That fella clearly didn't (according statements in the article) and doesn't feel good about it, I bet you'd feel the same way as him.

 

Interesting that one of the robbers died from shotgun wounds to his back though...

 

 

You can make an argument that shooting the robber armed with the gun was reasonable; not sure how he can justify shooting the other three. Being robbed doesn't give you a licence to execute people - or it shouldn't, at least, I know the US has all kinds of inhuman laws on so-called self-defence.

[Captain]

You can make an argument that shooting the robber armed with the gun was reasonable; not sure how he can justify shooting the other three.

Because when the first shot goes off it's basically war. In that situation it's very, very difficult to make assumptions of which of your enemies that are armed and which that are not.

 

I think it's morally right that the shop owner can claim self defence for the entire situation.

[Guest davelfc]

You want to shoot people? That fella clearly didn't (according statements in the article) and doesn't feel good about it, I bet you'd feel the same way as him.

 

Interesting that one of the robbers died from shotgun wounds to his back though...

 

Of course I'd feel really bad about killing someone, but as someone who was placed in a position where I was armed every day for 8 years and likely to be in a position to have to shoot others. I can say that I would do it and I totally support the store owner. My problem would be I'd have to follow the 'rules of engagement'

 

If I lived in the USA I would own a gun and if anyone broke in to my house I would have no problems with shooting them, no matter how many of them there were.

 

You can't make judgements on where about on the body he shot them unless you saw the scene and knew the situation. For instance three armed robbers are circled around a victim and are about to shoot him, if you only shoot the one facing you then the other two could kill you and the victim.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

SIn our mad country he would have been sent to prison probably.

 

What is 'mad' about the governing laws regarding this subject?

 

I wish we could shoot people that broke in to our homes, I'd leave all the windows open and become nocturnal.

 

But if you left all your windows open they wouldn't be 'breaking in'. And, if it is necessary, we can shoot people that break into our homes. We can't just camp out and commit murder, like you want to do.

[Guest davelfc]

What is 'mad' about the governing laws regarding this subject?

 

 

 

But if you left all your windows open they wouldn't be 'breaking in'. And, if it is necessary, we can shoot people that break into our homes. We can't just camp out and commit murder, like you want to do.

 

What's mad? That i am more likely to face prosecution if someone enters my house unlawfully than they are. Now that's really sending out the right message

 

 

Pedant, no they're legally entitled to climb in through the windows aren't they?still get a bullet, actually I was trained to 'double tap'

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

What's mad? That i am more likely to face prosecution if someone enters my house unlawfully than they are.

 

I've heard some nonsense on this subject over the years, but that is right up there.

 

Pedant

 

Yeah, much better to be flippant when talking about law and shooting people.

 

no they're legally entitled to climb in through the windows aren't they?still get a bullet, actually I was trained to 'double tap'

 

Then you'd, perfectly legitimately, go to prison.

[Guest davelfc]

 

Then you'd, perfectly legitimately, go to prison.

 

No, as I stated 'I wish we could shoot people that broke into our homes' meaning IF IT WAS legal. There's no way I would do it now you're not getting this internet forum stuff are you?

 

I've not been on much lately, been recovering from a big knee op, are you one of the usual nobs that keeps getting banned, because I lose track of them?

[Guest davelfc]

Sorry, forget that, just read some of your other posts. You are one of the nobs. Isn't the IGNORE function brilliant?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

No, as I stated 'I wish we could shoot people that broke into our homes' meaning IF IT WAS legal.

 

You can, if it is necessary. Why would you want to kill somebody when it isn't needed. That isn't a mad law, it is sensible. You need to use reasonable force, if that means shooting somebody to death, then fine. If it means that shooting a 15 year old kid who is trying to run away from the scene isn't acceptable, then that is also fine.

 

What is with the blood thirst?

 

you're not getting this internet forum stuff are you?

 

Yeah, I get it. It is a platform for thoughtlessness.

 

I've not been on much lately, been recovering from a big knee op, are you one of the usual nobs that keeps getting banned, because I lose track of them?

 

Erm, no. You're more than welcome to check my IP with the Admin.

[Guest davelfc]

 

 

 

Erm, no. You're more than welcome to check my IP with the Admin.

 

Then (judging by your post count) you might want to think about getting a life, instead of trying to win every argument on the internet. I have my opinion and you have the opposite to whatever opinion others have. Must be crowded in your head.

 

I had 8 years where I could have been called upon to shoot people at any time. Luckily I did not have to although came close a few times.

 

I wouldn't literally sit there awake all night with the windows open waiting for people to enter the house, nor would I 'eat until I burst' at a free buffet. But you get the point, if I could do it legally and people broke in to my house then 'bang bang'

 

I'm not going to change my opinion that I support the shop keeper and believe he was right. I feel sorry for the parents and family of the people shot but never for armed robbers.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I see that you're using the new ignore feature, one that doesn't put people on ignore.

[Guest davelfc]

I see that you're using the new ignore feature' date=' one that doesn't put people on ignore.[/quote']

 

Here's an idea for you 'no life'

 

When you get an idea or a thought passes through your head, try not posting it on the forum.

 

Oh and I cannot ignore you at the moment, says The user 'Número Nueve' was not found in the database. Please go back and correct this problem. You may want to check out the member list. I'm emailing the admin right now to see what the problem is as I'll be happy when you've gone. You're more of a pain than my knee is. (damn just given him another excuse to wank into his sock)

Edited August 16, 2009 by davelfc

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Here's an idea for you 'no life'

 

To be honest, that only works with people that actually have no life.